A little engine tech help

[Accrdkid]

Hey for that F22a motor build up. I was wondering how much horsepower would it put out, because I have an f22a block that I have still sitting at my old highschool. I had swapped it out for the same type because I blew a piston in it.
I was thinking of gettin it back and completely stripping it down to the bare block and working on it. But I neeed some help with some mathematical figures..but I keep running into the wall...Im just wondering if the block itself it able to withstand what I plan to build on it.
I'd get a 2.2 vtec but with the demand of $2,000- $5,000 I am leaning towards just redoing the f22a block.
So can someone help me out?:help:

[HondaFan81]

look at my post in this same section, I have a listing on prices of blockwork, headwork & bolt-ons mods.

and I'm not exactly sure how much power I'll get out of my setup being NA 11:1, but I'm thinking around 170 hp to the wheels hopefully...it's a daily driver with a lil attitude is all i'm lookin for & a tight suspension...want this thing to handle turns

[ZigenBallZ]

I'm not going to hand you all the info...

But I think... (and hope to prove) that 170 Whp can be obtained w/ an F22A for less than the cost of an H22...

[HondaFan81]

Originally posted by NoScreenName
I'm not going to hand you all the info...

But I think... (and hope to prove) that 170 Whp can be obtained w/ an F22A for less than the cost of an H22...

hahaha...makes two of us, but i'm also droppin some $$ on suspension setup

[HondaFan81]

man i'm gettin so impatient in wanting to get this project done with.....i've started to save some $$ though.....sa-weeeeet

[hemlockz]

It has got to be possible, for cheaper than an h22 swap when you figure in the cost of installation, and replacting all the broken sensors and missing parts that come on the "complete swap."

I'm also staying F22A. If I tried to save up for a swap it would never happen. Gotta buy small parts frequently If I ever want to finish this project! :) Do either of you guys know what the base whp for our engines is? Sometimes I wonder if we're even in the triple digits, stock...

[h22sparkle]

its 125-130hp to the crank to the wheels your probably gettin 115 to the wheels

[Fearit22]

Lx manual makes ~ 105 and the slush box makes a few hp less from what I have seen.

[blazen_accord]

trying to compare prices for built up vs h22a swap.

just say h22 swap cost about $3500 total. and building up the F22 for about the same level HP. If everything is done through the shop (for non car tecky like myself). Would the cost still be cheaper?? I know if you know and can do your own work you save on the labor, but being realistic most of us don't have what it take to pull the heads, and so all those works.

rough estimate, actuall prices+shipping+tax could be cheaper

sleves $800
piston $500
rod $500
ring $300
bearing $300
Rod bolt $400
Valves $300
camshalf $100
spring $200
I think there is more...
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that over $3000, just in parts if you have to send the engine out to get it done, shipping cost, removing the head/engine and reinstall labor cost would cost over $1000 at a shop.

so would building up an f22 be suitable for an non-tech car person and low on money??

[h22sparkle]

yeah but when you look at it you can get the swap already it comes out the factory prepared with none or little at all problems but wuilt f22 you have to fix this and that i personally would just get the swap who knows with the f22 you may come out a little cheaper but youll pay in the end.

[theone]

as for me, long as i hit the 14's all motor and the 13's on the bottle, i dont car if its a f22 or a h22....lol
i dont have the money to thro in a H so im a roll with the F.

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by h22sparkle
yeah but when you look at it you can get the swap already it comes out the factory prepared with none or little at all problems but wuilt f22 you have to fix this and that i personally would just get the swap who knows with the f22 you may come out a little cheaper but youll pay in the end.

man... that is such a tired arguement that all H22'ers put up in defense of their large, pocket draining investment...

I don't know how many times I've heard of people with swaps not being able to afford a header or exhaust on thir setup because they dropped 2g's on the H22...

AND... you also make it seem like you just buy an H22 and all is done... consider the fact that even if you buy JDM you are still buying a used motor...that will need some things replaced and a clutch upgrade...etc. etc.

and the H22'ers always say how it's such a better platform to start with but the simple fact is that realistically not many people
go beyond simple bolt on's with their H22... I alwaws laugh at that arguement because it's usually made by someone with bolt ons, no cash and a big wishlist...

not to mention it seems to me that alot of H22'ers are relly trying to justify (to themselves as well as others) the massive amount of money they spent for a horrible dollar to HP ratio... it just always seems to come off that way to me in the F22 vs. H22 arguement...whereas IMO alot of people wanting to build F22's are just more curious in general and willing to learn all they can beforehand...

It seems to me that people building F22's are more patient and realistic in general... there are still the big wishlists and whatnot but we seem to upgrade a bit at a time and gain knowledge and exp tuning at every step... so by the time we get to the 170+whp mark we have more HANDS ON knowledge about our setups...

basically... I'm not going to tout one over the other even though I AM biased... whatever route someone takes...they should take the time to do it right or at least utilize basic tuning principles...

[h22sparkle]

dont get me wrong the h-series sure swap but its dependable. sure the motor is used too but who buys a new motor anyway's yours sure didnt come new out the factory when you brought it no offense. I was thinkin about doin a allmotor f22 but then again i realized it wasnt going to work it wasnt a sports car it was only for economy ,not like a born sports compact car like the prelude. I had some money threw it in. But as i had problems with mine i learn thats how we all learn. I rather take on a simple motor that came from honda anyday from 88-99

[ZigenBallZ]

Originally posted by h22sparkle
dont get me wrong the h-series sure swap but its dependable. sure the motor is used too but who buys a new motor anyway's yours sure didnt come new out the factory when you brought it no offense. I was thinkin about doin a allmotor f22 but then again i realized it wasnt going to work it wasnt a sports car it was only for economy ,not like a born sports compact car like the prelude. I had some money threw it in. But as i had problems with mine i learn thats how we all learn. I rather take on a simple motor that came from honda anyday from 88-99

Hey, I'm not crapping on the swap or your choice... merely disagreeing with the arguement you presented in defense of it...
but it seems that even though the H22 & F22 share the same basic engine compartment platform there are inherent problems with adding things like VTEC to a non-vtec car... I dunno how many problems people seem to have with the wiring alone... not to mention little problems like vac, idle, A/F mixture stuff...every hybrid forum on every board is filled with them... you know firsthand about wiring problems...on the VAFC at least... which seems to be most H22'ers form of ghetto engine management and if you ask alot of swappers is almost required in addition to the swap...

and that's why I dislike the "just drop in an H22 and you'll have a reliable engine" arguement... because the simple fact is that people have problems for years that they can't track down...and once you are in it to the tune of 2gs + you have no choice but to deal with it...

There are inherent problems with both roads... it's that simple.

Also most H22 people seems snobby to me anyways... even though they tout it as the end all be all motor and suggest it at every possible chance... "just get the H22 without the tranny if that's all you have to spend" and then in another thread crap all over people complaining that the F22 tranny paired w/ the H22 just isn't as cool...Blah blah blah... and similar things...when they pushed the guy to go with the setup in the first place...

throw some more money at the problem seems to be the unspoken motto of swappers...

Keep in mind that I'm not generalizing all swappers or even you h22sparkle... as i have very specific people in mind when I say those things...

so to all the H22'ers...don't get all offended even though you level just as much criticism at F22'ers and we don't whine about it...

[gloryaccordy]

Personally I think the F has potential also, and am curious to see where it can go. There are already cams available, which is a big improvement, and everything else is basically available. From what I know, the weakness in the F revving higher for all motor apps is in the bottom end, because of the trucky bore/stroke ratio...it'll shake itself to death before it gets anywhere over 7000. Think about how a stock F feels at redline now...I wouldn't take it any further.

That's why I think the best route for SOHC F tuning would be the F23 head on an F20A bottom end. From what I know, the F20 has a shorter stroke, so it'll rev higher. Combine that with a crazy VTEC cam regrind+new valvesprings+higher CR and you definitely have a 170WHP motor waiting and ready. The only problem with that is that nobody has the cash, time or resources to go that route and go all the way. So within the realm of the average tuner, I'd say 150WHP in a non-VTEC F is good enough. That's good for a high 14 sec. pass with a good driver and the H23 tranny.

As for the H vs. the F, I like the F because it hasn't been done, and it's in my car. Swaps can be a gamble, especially one from overseas...and with the H in high demand it's possible to get a dud of an engine. I want to build up an H23 or F22B personally, with a higher CR and cam gears. That's an easy 170WHP for about the price of an H22 swap...