CB7Tuner Forums

CB7Tuner Forums (http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/index.php)
-   Beginner Technical/Performance (http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=107)
-   -   93 Accord race car Build/Questions thread (http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=168323)

aventari 11-10-2010 01:58 AM

93 Accord race car Build/Questions thread
 
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
EDIT: THREAD UPDATE TO THIS OLD ASS THREAD HERE: (bottom of the page)http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=168323&page=3
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hello,

I'm new to Accords and new to this site, but some friends and I are currently building a 93 Accord for the 24 Hours of LeMons race at Buttonwillow Raceway this December.

It's a 24 hour endurance race for beater cars, totally for fun and the limit on the "worth" of the cars is $500. If you want to know a bit about it, check it out here:
http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/

So my friends and I got a decent 93 Accord 5 speed with F22A1 and 200,000 miles for free and decided to run this race we've all been wanting to do for a while.

Since the car ran pretty much fine as it was, the basic plan was to strip it down, lighten it as much as possible, install a roll cage, racing seat/harness, install some decent front brakes, no whatever we could to the suspension, tune up the motor and go!


Since the limit on cost is $500, there's not a lot of expensive parts we can throw on it, and most of the mods we have to do are pretty hacky. For instance to get the suspensions stiffer and lower, we're going to cut 3 or 4 coils off the springs. To get a bet more intake flow, we chopped up the airbox, etc.

Luckily I'm a pretty experienced mechanic, but my main car interests are VWs, Porsches and Miatas. I did used to have an 88 Integra though so at least I'm a bit familiar with Hondas. Since none of us really know anything about Accords, I'll have a LOT of questions, hopefully you guys can help us out :)

Here's ow it stands now:

http://i51.tinypic.com/21m6eef.jpg

Yesterday I started to gut the doors

http://i52.tinypic.com/53395c.jpg

and this is what came out of one rear door:

http://i54.tinypic.com/4g6pm8.jpg

Here's the seat/harness:

http://i51.tinypic.com/288d2zs.jpg

and here I am welding up a gas pedal stop since we removed the carpet and everything, the pedal was moving way further than it should've:

http://img.waffleimages.com/135ddc44...IMG_3703rs.JPG
Click here for the full 1280x960 image.


http://img.waffleimages.com/962a5bfa...IMG_3706rs.JPG
Click here for the full 1280x960 image.


I have three first questions for you:

--Ignition Timing--
We'll be running 91 octane gas at the race track, about what should I set the ignition timing to for max power without pinging?

--Balance Shafts--
I'm going to replace the timing belt this weekend, is it okay to completely leave the balance shaft belt off to gain a bit of power? This won't screw up oil flow/pressure?

--A/C Removal--
We've already removed all of the A/C lexcept the compressor. If I want to ditch the compressor, can I just remove it and get the correct length belt to fit between the alternator and the crank pulley?


Does anyone have any other super cheap/free mods that would be a good idea for this car?

Thanks! I'll keep the thread updated as we finish the build and go racing!

Tishock 11-10-2010 04:32 AM

Awesome! I've seen videos and read about this race on some racing magazine (can't remember which one). Good luck sir.

Power
The link below is a sticky titled "How to make 30+hp for $500 or less" most of this stuff can be picked up from a junk yard really cheap or even free.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=88154

You may also want to open up the exhaust ports a bit. It flows VERY well when modified.

Suspension
Cutting our springs... Most will tell you this is a horrible idea with our cars. The suspension becomes scary unpredictable. Hell, if it's allowed I have some Tokico springs laying around the garage I can give you. I think they are 1.25" drop front and rear. A much better option than cutting.

A/C Removal
Yes. Most parts store will have the Alternator belt with out AC. The DX models came with out AC. @ Oreilly's http://www.oreillyauto.com/site/c/de...0074&ppt=C0007

Weight
You should consider removing the cruise control and the power steering if you havn't done so already. Power steering option http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=164993

Ghetto_CB7 11-10-2010 04:55 AM

Free parts
 
I do not know what you are able to do with free parts...

But I think I have an h22 plenum and TB that could probably go to a better cause then sitting in my dorm room. I picked the entire intake manifold up for $35 so its probably something I can part with LOL.

Let us know what you can take, and I am sure there are plenty of people with f22a6 exhaust manifolds available, 37 people here just updated to a custom header.

your a welder, so you should have no problem with chassis rigidity lol.

I think the hardest thing to upgrade for cheap will be the brakes, there are not a lot of big break options for our cars that can be done for cheap...

Start looking for acura cl's in your area lol.

One other thing, is tuning, you can probably find a p06 in a junk yard and chip it for $20 crome is free, so if you have access to a wideband and a datalogger ($10 if you don't) you can tune your little f22a.

That might be your best power maker after putting on the parts in the $500 power adder thread.

Tishock 11-10-2010 06:23 AM

Quote:

1.4: Claiming Race: At the end of the competition, the Organizers--and nobody else, you lazy, better-car-wantin' bastids--may elect to purchase any vehicle from its owner(s) for $500. In other words, don't spend a lot on a cheater, cause if you do, you ain't gonna own it much longer.
I guess you really dont want to add too many parts even if they are free. Because there is no guarantee you will be able to keep your car after the race.

aventari 11-10-2010 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tishock (Post 2656620)
Awesome! I've seen videos and read about this race on some racing magazine (can't remember which one). Good luck sir.

Thanks! I have a decent amount of track experience in my VW Scirocco, Miata and Honda CBR600 but never any wheel-to-wheel racing. Should be a blast

Quote:

Power
The link below is a sticky titled "How to make 30+hp for $500 or less" most of this stuff can be picked up from a junk yard really cheap or even free.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=88154
You may also want to open up the exhaust ports a bit. It flows VERY well when modified.
Thanks I read a lot of that thread. If I have time I will definitely hit the junk yard and look for parts. Unfortunately there's only 2 weekends left before the race!

Quote:

Suspension
Cutting our springs... Most will tell you this is a horrible idea with our cars. The suspension becomes scary unpredictable. Hell, if it's allowed I have some Tokico springs laying around the garage I can give you. I think they are 1.25" drop front and rear. A much better option than cutting.
Yeah it's allowed, our car is not going to be anywhere near the front or be very built so the judges won't bat an eye at a set of springs. If you want to send it to us I'd gladly pay for shipping and for your time. I'm in San Diego.

Quote:

A/C Removal
Yes. Most parts store will have the Alternator belt with out AC. The DX models came with out AC.
Awesome will be on this on saturday!

Quote:

Weight
You should consider removing the cruise control and the power steering if you havn't done so already. Power steering option http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=164993
[/quote]

Cuise control is gone, how difficult is the steering if I just remove the power steering pump simple and cut the lines?


Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghetto_CB7 (Post 2656625)
I do not know what you are able to do with free parts...
But I think I have an h22 plenum and TB that could probably go to a better cause then sitting in my dorm room. I picked the entire intake manifold up for $35 so its probably something I can part with LOL.
Let us know what you can take, and I am sure there are plenty of people with f22a6 exhaust manifolds available, 37 people here just updated to a custom header.

your a welder, so you should have no problem with chassis rigidity lol.

I think the hardest thing to upgrade for cheap will be the brakes, there are not a lot of big break options for our cars that can be done for cheap...

Start looking for acura cl's in your area lol.

One other thing, is tuning, you can probably find a p06 in a junk yard and chip it for $20 crome is free, so if you have access to a wideband and a datalogger ($10 if you don't) you can tune your little f22a.

That might be your best power maker after putting on the parts in the $500 power adder thread.

So free/cheap parts are fine. Right now we have the stock F22A1, so if you have anything you'd like to donate or sell real cheap like a P06 ecu, let me know! We'll paint your name on the side or put a sticker on for you or something :)

So for the brakes we have upgraded racing pads, brake cooling ducts, and DOT4 fluid. That should be sufficient for the speeds we're running.

I do have a Innovate LM1 wideband I have on my turbo VW but I could swap it over to tune the car.



I'm planning on running colder heat range plugs, the NGK ZFR6F-11 and I ordered a GATES RACING 160 degree thermostat.

One problem that I hear from a lot of racers is that Hondas like to blow headgaskets at the 24 hour race. I'm hoping keeping the motor cool with the low temp thermostat will help.

How about oil coolers, do any of the stock Accords come with an oil cooler I can scavenge? Oil temps are usually a big problem in an endurance race.

EJX_Michael 11-10-2010 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aventari (Post 2657036)
Cuise control is gone, how difficult is the steering if I just remove the power steering pump simple and cut the lines?

It takes some getting used to at low speeds, but makes high speed turns much better in my opinion.



Quote:

Originally Posted by aventari (Post 2657036)
How about oil coolers, do any of the stock Accords come with an oil cooler I can scavenge? Oil temps are usually a big problem in an endurance race.

I think all F22A6s came with an oil cooler between the block and oil filter. Coolant is ran through this to cool the oil a bit, but I don't know how effective it would be at high RPMs and Speeds.

aventari 11-10-2010 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJX_Michael (Post 2657049)
It takes some getting used to at low speeds, but makes high speed turns much better in my opinion.

since all we'll be doing is relatively high speed turns I think it's a good idea.


Quote:

I think all F22A6s came with an oil cooler between the block and oil filter. Coolant is ran through this to cool the oil a bit, but I don't know how effective it would be at high RPMs and Speeds.
Thank you this would be REALLY useful on the track. I'll try to track one down.
Anyone happen to have one they'd like to sell? :)

wed3k 11-10-2010 10:28 PM

where are you located? im doing a spec miata head and going to try and build a budget D16a6 for a crx that is in lemons.

i wouldnt mind donating some advice and help if you are in the bay area.

Tishock 11-10-2010 10:41 PM

He's in San Diego.

Cooling

Maybe rewire the AC fan and radiator fan to run continuously from the battery.

Cut holes in the hood to help with venting heat from engine bay. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=324009

wed3k 11-10-2010 11:17 PM

dammit.

aventari 11-11-2010 01:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tishock (Post 2657117)
He's in San Diego.

Cooling

Maybe rewire the AC fan and radiator fan to run continuously from the battery.

Cut holes in the hood to help with venting heat from engine bay. http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=324009

Hopefully when we're moving the fans won't be needed, but I'll look into add a switch to them in case we need to run them during the race.

I've have been planning on cutting some major holes in the hood, I'll do that when I cut out the support webbing that's on the underside.

The S2k in the link looks SICK though. I might have to do that to my Miata street car :)

wed3k 11-11-2010 06:18 PM

ive personally wouldnt take the PS out, it gets tiring even for an auto-x.

aventari 11-11-2010 07:40 PM

I will check with teammates on how they feel about p/s.

It probably would be useful to alleviate driver fatigue. The driver sessions will be pretty grueling

HondaFan81 11-12-2010 10:35 AM

Seems like keeping P/S is a good idea for 24hr endurance. Make sure that belt is in good shape and proper tension. Not too tight, puts load on pulley bearing.

mndude07 11-12-2010 01:46 PM

I know a few guys that have raced their sentra in lemons several times.

A few things:

Get a rear accord sway bar from the junkyard if you don't already have one. The accord responds very very well to more rear bar.

Move the battery to the trunk...the accord weight distribution sucks, so this will help at least a little.

Get the best tires you possibly can, even if it means you have to keep the rest of the suspension stock.

Get the front brake setup off an Accord wagon from the junkyard. The rotors are 1 inch bigger, and the calipers are larger. It all bolts right up. Get racing brake pads. Only problem is that your 14 inch steelies won't fit. Get some shitty junkyard 15's to clear the brakes.

The F22a6 intake manifold, and cam is better, swap those in along with the a6 ecu.

If you can find acura CL struts at a junkyard, I believe they bolt up, and have a stiffer valving.

Just leave the balance shaft belt off, doesn't need to be there.


Remember, the car has to appear to be valued at 500....changing alot of those parts will not visually add any value to the car even if you spend more than $500. If you think other people don't "cheat" like this, think again.

Supergenius 11-12-2010 01:56 PM

I smiled.

Thank you

rexload 11-12-2010 02:14 PM

turbocharge it. it will still be a $500 car in that condition lol.
seriously though, this is awesome. that's what I call gutted!

Cobalt 11-12-2010 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tishock (Post 2656620)
Suspension
Cutting our springs... Most will tell you this is a horrible idea with our cars. The suspension becomes scary unpredictable. Hell, if it's allowed I have some Tokico springs laying around the garage I can give you. I think they are 1.25" drop front and rear. A much better option than cutting.

Cut springs arent that bad, especially for a car that is only going to last one race... if it lasts that long... Here is why.

Disclaimer: Not for highway vehicles!!!!

aventari 11-13-2010 09:18 PM

Wanted to do the timing belt/valve job today, but I couldn't pick the car up until 3:30pm because the keys went missing :angry:

Now gonna have to bust ass tomorrow to get the timing belt done.

I did have an hour or so of light so I started removing everything from the top, and got down to pulling the A/C compressor. Fucker is heavy! Glad it's being trashed

Do I have to pull to motor mount tomorrow to get to the timing belt?
Whats the best process?

A friend lent me the crank pulley locking tool, so I luckily have that.

http://i56.tinypic.com/282goly.jpg

http://i55.tinypic.com/2vttqhh.jpg

http://i52.tinypic.com/2qapbg0.jpg

wed3k 11-13-2010 09:25 PM

yea you have to remove the motor mount


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:45 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.