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    #31
    Originally posted by lbus9168 View Post
    Respectfully, I don't think following rules made in a very different world is the best way for a modern society to work.
    When those rules are made based off of the universal and timeless downfalls of society such as corruption and oppression of "others" I think they are most certainly relevant. The same base threats we have now are the same my country's forefathers dealt with and attempted to protect us against by giving as guidline
    I don't agree with it in the middle east and I don't agree with it here.

    I understand and respect the views held to uphold tradition but it doesn't seem to work very well in practice.
    making things illegal or outlawed doesn't work in practice either

    Removing gun rights worked in my country. The many gun amnesty's we have has worked.
    because you have a small country and relatively few gun owners/guns before you were disarmed. You have no way of knowing how much violence removing the ability to protect oneself has enabled. All you see is "well we haven't had a mass shooting in X amount of time". You literally have NO chance of stopping someone if they decide to become violent on a mass scale, you'd have to call the police and wait the minutes for them to arrive while some luny has his/her way with easy targets.

    There are downsides to everything but we do not have the consistent gun violence. the extremely small percentage of violent gun crimes compared to gun ownership in my country is a downside, but certainly a much more acceptable one than leaving everyone to depend on an already over worked police force to protect them. I guess gun bans work if you don't mind the downside of society being a power struggle where the physically weak are helpless against violence.

    We do still have violence. Stabbings, gang attacks, lots of terrible alcohol fuelled violence. People die.

    But the risk factor is reduced.

    The risk of being shot goes down but the risk of being beat to death, stabbed, mauled and otherwise killed goes up.

    People are always going to be terrible. Why make it easier for them to be so.
    Take a minute and consider gun ownership as a tool of protection instead of what liberal media and political leadership are WAY over dramatizing it to be and then go back and read your last comment (several times if need be). Post your conclusion.
    Last edited by Bunta; 10-06-2017, 09:56 AM.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by lbus9168 View Post
      Respectfully, I don't think following rules made in a very different world is the best way for a modern society to work.

      I don't agree with it in the middle east and I don't agree with it here.

      I understand and respect the views held to uphold tradition but it doesn't seem to work very well in practice.

      Removing gun rights worked in my country. The many gun amnesty's we have has worked.

      There are downsides to everything but we do not have the consistent gun violence.

      We do still have violence. Stabbings, gang attacks, lots of terrible alcohol fuelled violence. People die.

      But the risk factor is reduced.

      People are always going to be terrible. Why make it easier for them to be so.
      You'll have to remember that the next time you use your "antiquated" right to vote or exercise your free speech.

      P.S. guys like Castro and Hugo Chavez, Kim Jong-Un, and many others have all existed within the last 5 years, so I think it is absolutely a logical stretch to say that there is no need for a modern people to be able to protect themselves. Reality simply says otherwise, despite what ideology might want to tell us.

      Gun control is at the root of ALL oppressive regimes. But I guess having millions of people starving to death without power while Kimmy spends billions on his palaces and missiles is a far better alternative. Never mind that when his henchmen show up at your door to steal your 14 year-old daughter to join his sex slave harem, you let her go because you have no way to resist him...

      I'll take the "antiquated" views on guns. Thanks.
      The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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        #33
        Originally posted by owequitit View Post
        Why does everything in this country have to be about race?
        Because that seems to be the norm lately...I'm not saying everyone is racist but c'mon call it what it is Scott. You and I both know that even if he happened to be a p.o.c and he fit that description about this guy.

        It would be a totally different story.

        Fox news commentators came out and said we don't know enough about him to hate the guy. how the hell do you NOT hate a guy who took out 58 innocent lives and injured 500 or more before offing himself like a coward?

        Tim McVeigh bombed a building in OKC back in 95, didn't fit the typical description of a terrorist...but in the end he was labled one.

        If you do heinous crimes of this nature...I don't care if you Asian, Black or White..you're a person who committed an act of terror.

        They tie this type of shit to mental instability when it comes to white men...but if another person who isn't white is labled something else other than mentally unstable.
        Henry R
        Koni/Neuspeed
        1992 Accord LX R.I.P
        1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
        Legend FSM

        'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
        made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by HenRoc View Post
          Because that seems to be the norm lately...I'm not saying everyone is racist but c'mon call it what it is Scott. You and I both know that even if he happened to be a p.o.c and he fit that description about this guy.

          It would be a totally different story.

          Fox news commentators came out and said we don't know enough about him to hate the guy. how the hell do you NOT hate a guy who took out 58 innocent lives and injured 500 or more before offing himself like a coward?

          Tim McVeigh bombed a building in OKC back in 95, didn't fit the typical description of a terrorist...but in the end he was labled one.

          If you do heinous crimes of this nature...I don't care if you Asian, Black or White..you're a person who committed an act of terror.

          They tie this type of shit to mental instability when it comes to white men...but if another person who isn't white is labled something else other than mentally unstable.
          This everything is the fault of white privilege crap is such non-sense.

          Based on what I have seen the last two years, black kids can attempt to steal a gun from a cop while he is seated in his squad car and the white cop becomes the bad guy. Worst of all, the media jumps into the middle of the fight against the "racist" cop without ANY processing of the forensic evidence which exonerated the claims of the officer and completely refuted the claims of the social justice warriors.

          This guy isn't being treated with a velvet glove. They have simply said that they have no idea what his motive was, nor why he would do it because he didn't have any of the normal signs that typically accompany this.

          As for Fox News, I don't watch it or consider it a valid new source (along with CNN, MSNBC, etc) so I don't have any idea if they said that or not. I haven't seen a single REPUTABLE media outlet claim any such thing or claim he should be exempt because he is white.

          That said, it could be classified as terrorism, but you are making a HUGE mistake in how you classify the two different groups by putting them together. Terrorists of one group are NOT typically crazy. You can't lump people with mental orders into the same groups or categories as people who have a political agenda and a set of actions that are based on a very logical and rational set of reasoning.

          The 9-11 Terrorists were NOT mentally insane. They believed what they were fighting for and they were willing to die for it, just as our soldiers are to protect their way of life.

          Can a crazy person be a terrorist? Absolutely. Timothy McVeigh wasn't crazy. He had perceived grievances against the US Government that he acted on when he felt there were no other options. Was it a course of action that most people would have taken? Obviously not. Does that automatically render him crazy? No, it does not.

          I would consider this guy to be a terrorist based on the scale of his attack, but I won't necessarily lump him into the category of "crazy" until they have some facts of his motive and mental state. That said, it is looking more and more like he was descending into mental chaos based on statements his girlfriend made (even she didn't think he would do something like this).

          It isn't a race issue. It is an issue of mental health, motive and a person using a stock of arms to kill en masse.
          Last edited by owequitit; 10-07-2017, 01:31 AM.
          The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

          Comment


            #35
            and this is where the thread ends up getting locked...



            FYI. Terrorism has a cause behind it, an agenda or grievance driving the act. Not all mass shootings are ideologically or politically driven, sometimes the person just is crazy and this is the result.
            Last edited by Bunta; 10-07-2017, 11:48 AM.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by owequitit View Post
              REPUTABLE media outlet
              ... such as? The main reason I don't watch the news is because I feel like I can't trust reporters to give an objective view on events. I'd love to look into a source that you feel is reliably unbiased.

              Accord Aero-R

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                ... such as? The main reason I don't watch the news is because I feel like I can't trust reporters to give an objective view on events. I'd love to look into a source that you feel is reliably unbiased.
                First, you have to understand that EVERY_SINGLE media source is biased. Short of hard physical data, or some other verifiable scientific endeavor, there is always a little bit of spin and sometimes the "science" can have that too.

                That said, the best way to protect against the bias is to gather data from as many sources as possible, and when possible, go straight to the source. For instance, with Trump's executive orders, I go and read the actual E.O. because a lot of the media outlets simply are not reporting a truth due to their politicized agenda. That occurs on both sides.

                That said, I find myself generally doing less rechecking and finding fewer holes in a lot of print media, vs televised media. I like USA Today, Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, Dallas Morning News, and the LA Times, understanding that they are all biased in certain ways, but they seem to be pretty neutral most of the time.

                For television media, I may watch local news channels but definitely stay away from the major ratings channels like CNN, FOX, MSNBC, etc. I tend to like CNBC in the same way I like The Wall Street Journal. They are absolutely biased toward the performance of the market and economy, but they tell you that upfront.

                I sure as HELL stay away from absolutely useless crap garbage like Breitbart, Huffington Post, VOX, and most of the others of that nature. For online sources, I like Reuters and Associated Press as well as some others on a case by case basis.

                But the real strategy is verify everything on my own. It takes a lot more work, but it is amazing just how quickly you can smell the B.S. and find the slant. Once you do that, it is easier to use any source because you know where they are biased.
                The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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                  #38
                  Just want to point out that the passion behind some of these posts is exactly why we as a country are in such a stale mate on the issues.


                  Its like scott (i think thats owequitits name) feels so strongly behind his position he might try and make the case that people living in America should have machine guns and grenades, you know, because of the constitution.

                  No offense to him either, i generaly find his posts to be subjective and well thought out. Smart guy for sure.

                  But, is he really trying to suggest people actually stand and a chance against tyranny in todays climate? The weapons of today have advanced in a fashion that nobody stands a chance as a civilian against a government operation. Not in America anyways.


                  And the other side of the arguement, man its tough because i really do beleieve that its possible that minorities believe in white privilege and have it engrained in their head that white people dont deal with the same racisim, hatred and biased behavior all day every day.

                  But we do. My my apologies to anyone i upset with this post, but seriously, my fucking 10 year old boy gets picked on for being white pretty much constantly. Imagine having to explain to your 10 year old why HE needs to be tolerant of black kids making fun of him for being "pasty" or talking shit because he is "white trash" or a "honky"

                  We live in a nice place, sub 350k in rural iowa. We do ok, and out kids are well taken care of. Its not white privilege either, ive worked my ass of and had a full time job + my own business mostnof the 30+ years i have worked, but try telling that to the next "trayvon martin" who thinks im a white asshole because i drive an audi s6 and have quartz countertops.

                  Fuck that shit. I came from literally nothing, crackhead mom, drug dealing hells angel of a father. Ive been to prison twice and have "been there and done that" when it comes to roughing it.

                  At one point in my life i survived on top ramen + italian salad dressing while living in a fucking $29/night hotel.


                  Life is all about how hard you try and how bad do you want it.

                  End of story. No color, race or religion will help you if you do not try and you do not want it.


                  Minorities would riot at an epic scale if there was even one tenth the divisive, singularized rhetoric coming out of white people as there is coming from minorities per capita. Its as if they dont realize that every person they project their beleif onto, that isnt actually racist, is in fact a racist attack and contributes to racism.

                  For every black lives matter demonstration targeting one single police incident, its like they are calling the other 100,000 good cops racist as well, and we all know that just isnt true.

                  Its hard to not understand the rationale behind the anger, of course i was upset when they killed and didnt have to. Thing is, more minorities kill minorities for sensless crime than cops kill minorities for debateble reasons.


                  The hatred is so vile and is being driven by naiive beliefs on both sides of the equation. Everyone really should spend a few minutes trying to walk in the other guys shoes and perhaps this would all just simmer down.

                  Common sense has to prevail at some point, you would think anyways.
                  Last edited by toycar; 10-08-2017, 08:18 AM.
                  Originally posted by wed3k
                  im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by toycar View Post
                    Just want to point out that the passion behind some of these posts is exactly why we as a country are in such a stale mate on the issues.


                    Its like scott (i think thats owequitits name) feels so strongly behind his position he might try and make the case that people living in America should have machine guns and grenades, you know, because of the constitution.

                    No offense to him either, i generaly find his posts to be subjective and well thought out. Smart guy for sure.

                    But, is he really trying to suggest people actually stand and a chance against tyranny in todays climate? The weapons of today have advanced in a fashion that nobody stands a chance as a civilian against a government operation. Not in America anyways.


                    And the other side of the arguement, man its tough because i really do beleieve that its possible that minorities believe in white privilege and have it engrained in their head that white people dont deal with the same racisim, hatred and biased behavior all day every day.

                    But we do. My my apologies to anyone i upset with this post, but seriously, my fucking 10 year old boy gets picked on for being white pretty much constantly. Imagine having to explain to your 10 year old why HE needs to be tolerant of black kids making fun of him for being "pasty" or talking shit because he is "white trash" or a "honky"

                    We live in a nice place, sub 350k in rural iowa. We do ok, and out kids are well taken care of. Its not white privilege either, ive worked my ass of and had a full time job + my own business mostnof the 30+ years i have worked, but try telling that to the next "trayvon martin" who thinks im a white asshole because i drive an audi s6 and have quartz countertops.

                    Fuck that shit. I came from literally nothing, crackhead mom, drug dealing hells angel of a father. Ive been to prison twice and have "been there and done that" when it comes to roughing it.

                    At one point in my life i survived on top ramen + italian salad dressing while living in a fucking $29/night hotel.


                    Life is all about how hard you try and how bad do you want it.

                    End of story. No color, race or religion will help you if you do not try and you do not want it.


                    Minorities would riot at an epic scale if there was even one tenth the divisive, singularized rhetoric coming out of white people as there is coming from minorities per capita. Its as if they dont realize that every person they project their beleif onto, that isnt actually racist, is in fact a racist attack and contributes to racism.

                    For every black lives matter demonstration targeting one single police incident, its like they are calling the other 100,000 good cops racist as well, and we all know that just isnt true.

                    Its hard to not understand the rationale behind the anger, of course i was upset when they killed and didnt have to. Thing is, more minorities kill minorities for sensless crime than cops kill minorities for debateble reasons.


                    The hatred is so vile and is being driven by naiive beliefs on both sides of the equation. Everyone really should spend a few minutes trying to walk in the other guys shoes and perhaps this would all just simmer down.

                    Common sense has to prevail at some point, you would think anyways.

                    Im not one to always bring up race all the time but it's what you see on the news, I agree the whole issue with Chicago is never put under a spot light, but at the same time you have cops you tend to go over the boundaries as a public servant and as a result people get killed namely african americans.

                    When other cops don't hold their own accountable and the person gets let go for murder as an african american it a sense of injustice.

                    An African-American cop in NOLA got convicted for shooting a 6 year old that was sitting in a car and got hit with 40 years.

                    Philando Castiles murderer got off...and he was a Hispanic officer, same thing with Trayvon Martin, Eric Garner (by a chokehold that was illegalby NY State Law) , Fergusons to name a few.

                    We don't hear about todays discrimination against whites because some would see it as them playing victim so in a way it's a reversal of roles, now I'm not saying all but it's there...I've been in some fucked up situations where I was never aggressive towards cops, but the way I was treated a few times made me really aware of who I was and where I was at all times.

                    You don't get scrutinized as much unless you're a p.o.c and that's fact.
                    Henry R
                    Koni/Neuspeed
                    1992 Accord LX R.I.P
                    1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
                    Legend FSM

                    'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
                    made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by HenRoc View Post

                      You don't get scrutinized as much unless you're a p.o.c and that's fact.
                      I get that as a person of color, this probably feels like your reality.

                      Can you wrap your head around the idea that no, its not fact, and until you have lived as a white person, you'll apparently never understand. The same cop thats an asshole to you, would be an asshole to me. Same arguement you expect me to understand, why cant you? Live as a white person before you think you know what its like. Dont overlook the idea that the hatred is the same, regsrdless of who is throwin it around.

                      What you are claiming, validates my point entirely.

                      I could offer examples and we could engage in some sort of tit for tat, whos had it worse but that wouldnt get anyone anywhere and all i am trying to explain here, is that people of color arent the only ones dealing with this shit, they just think they are.
                      Originally posted by wed3k
                      im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by toycar View Post
                        I get that as a person of color, this probably feels like your reality.

                        Can you wrap your head around the idea that no, its not fact, and until you have lived as a white person, you'll apparently never understand. The same cop thats an asshole to you, would be an asshole to me. Same arguement you expect me to understand, why cant you? Live as a white person before you think you know what its like. Dont overlook the idea that the hatred is the same, regsrdless of who is throwin it around.

                        What you are claiming, validates my point entirely.

                        I could offer examples and we could engage in some sort of tit for tat, whos had it worse but that wouldnt get anyone anywhere and all i am trying to explain here, is that people of color arent the only ones dealing with this shit, they just think they are.
                        I'm not trying to offend anyone here but yes it is a heavier reality for me than you. Yes I don't know what its like to be in your shoes but the reality of it is..this is what you see on the news, there's never a white person who is discriminated against and made public.

                        Tell me why whenever something horrible happens to an African American do they tend to focus or his or her bad rep involving the law but whenever a white person committs a crime they focus on the positives or question motives?

                        You're saying I validate your point..why because I'm pointing out the obvious?

                        Here's one incident that I will never forget:

                        I used to work for AZ years back..and I was onced stopped by a policewoman because she thought I was trying to steal stuff when all I did was take out the trash. 3 white kids were hanging outside the store I worked at because their truck broke down and they were NEVER carded but me and my friend who is Hispanic were, back up was called and I asked her why..her immediate response was 'How do I know youre not an asshole?'

                        I was beyond pissed...what was I supposed to do?

                        I work my ass off and I am the type that I don't stir up trouble ever and at the time, I had my uniform on with my NAME TAG so didn't my friend who happened to be the ASM at the time.

                        I filed a complaint with the PD that same night, only to be told 'Well we've had people do that in the past' which was the biggest bullshit line I was ever told..I was flipping mad because me and my friend who were just doing our job to close the store for the night were profiled.


                        That's the type of shit in my reality that I have to face. I don't ever speak of my own experiences because in some weird way I don't want to play victim I don't want to get angry and say oh someone pity me.

                        Because it isn't me.

                        I bottle it up and live my life but when I have to get real with some people in my life I literally tell them what I've been through because the sheer reality is just that: Racism is always going to be the norm in this country, it never went away it just stayed hidden. I'm not saying all are racists (shit it's both sides) but you see it and you can sense it.

                        Do I support the fact that some of these people who feel like they need to be vindicated go out and loot and destroy property? hell fucking no I don't.

                        In fact I'd rather see the positive impact instead of the negative impact that causes more harm than good be put to good use.

                        Unfortunately on both sides there will always be bickering and no real resolve.
                        Last edited by HenRoc; 10-08-2017, 09:15 PM.
                        Henry R
                        Koni/Neuspeed
                        1992 Accord LX R.I.P
                        1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
                        Legend FSM

                        'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
                        made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I dont doubt anything you are saying is true, and accurate to how you feel about the world you live in.

                          I was once taken to jail for driving under suspension when i walked to the gas station, by a black cop who was a complete shitbag and probably wouldve treated you just as poorly.

                          I was also in prison twice. You think youve experienced racial dispair, try prison as a white guy.

                          Look man, im not in anyway saying you are alone in your feelings, and the way the conversation goes i have no choice but to offer examples that discredit what you are saying. Plenty of white people get scrutinized publicly. Seriously. I can give yoh plenty of examples of this too. Not to go tit for tat, just please understand that we really are dealing with this shit too.

                          For example, many people hate trump. And i can tolerate the conversation and sentiment when people have a legitimate reason for feeling that way.

                          You have to know though, that Obama was NEVER as publically ridiculed and trolled as trump has been, and most people in your culture have a terrible opinion of the guy with little to nothing to back up the actual reasoning why.

                          I mean, that is if you follow politics.

                          And seriiusly, my whole point is that we are all dealing with it, it IS fucked up for everyone.

                          You must not follow politics if you think white guys are immune to public slander and exaggerated representation of facts to make people look bad. Both sides of the isle, all day everyday.

                          Look up joel osteen for a good read on trivial hatred and public opinions if you think white people are immune to it.


                          Again, i am not in anyway saying what you are referring to isnt real. What i AM saying, is that we deal with everything you are upset about too, and to think otherwise is actually feeding the problem.
                          Originally posted by wed3k
                          im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Pertinent to the OP and this current discussion, did we hear very much about the DC snipers or talks about banning rifles (not "assault rifles but regular hunting style)?

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Bunta View Post
                              Pertinent to the OP and this current discussion, did we hear very much about the DC snipers or talks about banning rifles (not "assault rifles but regular hunting style)?
                              Ive read quite a bit about banning bump fire stocks, but nothing else.


                              Bump fire should be banned, its a poor mans fully auto weapon and if you cannot have fully auto, you shouldnt be able to own a bump fire stock either.

                              Who needs a fully auto .308 anyways? Hunting an entire herd of elk or something?


                              Anyone that actually thinks white guys dont deal with cops shooting them for no reason and then getting slandered by the police, should read about Danny Elrod of Omaha Ne or Jason Welch of Omaha NE.

                              Again, please do not take my effort here as disputing your reality, simply suggesting we are dealing with the same problems.

                              Heres a story that nobody gave a fuck about, concerning a white kid getting doused with gas and set on fire for being nothing other than a white boy. This happened a month after the trayvon martin incident by the way.

                              Nobody cared, you know, because wr are white and we dont deal with these problems too.

                              https://www.google.com/amp/www.nydai...icle-1.1033062

                              What about the mentally challenged white kid thst was kidnapped and tortured for hours in chicago, all sorts of nasty racist shit happened thst day and nobody really gave a fuck about that either

                              https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn...ing/index.html

                              So, for real, i hope ive made my point.


                              This shit is happening to everyone. Its not just minorities dealing with this kind of hatred
                              Last edited by toycar; 10-09-2017, 05:46 AM.
                              Originally posted by wed3k
                              im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Bump fire is not close to automatic, in accuracy nor rate of fire. A trained person could manual fire as quick as a bump fire and to a higher degree of accuracy. Guns / ammo types are not the problem so making "solutions" based on them does little to solve anything. Civilians can own full automatic weapons, along with cannons and flamethrowers. The problem in owning a full automatic weapon is that they are expensive to purchase, nothing after 86' I believe is allowed to be owned and you must have special licensing to own one. Slicing away at your 2nd amendment rights isn't going to stop people from killing others, it will change how they do it.

                                Comment

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