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1991 Accord LX Race Car

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    Arse-Freeze-Aplalooza 2016

    Well we finished another Lemons race. The weather was perfect. We put in two solid days of racing. We stayed around the mid 50th place range almost all weekend and we finished in 50th overall out of 187 entries. There was another team there with a CB7. There's was a 1990 DX and it was bone stock. They were actually ahead of us by 4 laps on Sunday morning which shocked me since I had personally passed them several times and we had not had any long stops for repairs. But they broke some wheel studs and that took them a while to get back on the track and we left them way behind.

    Our car has gotten much faster with the work we've done. I was passing cars that used to regularly pass me. I'm getting more comfortable too. I am more confidant about passing. We are still far from the fastest. In fact our best lap of 2:14.00x (my fastest was 2:14.667 and Dennis' was 2:14.4x) was near the bottom of the list of best laps. About 120 teams had better fastest laps. But we were reliable and consistent. Mid sunday we switched from our wearing out BFG Rivals (which I was arguing for since my saturday drive) and the car got much more stable. We had lots of trouble with brake modulation recently. We had a new pad compound this time but still had the problem. So we disconnected the vacuum assist on the brakes. That made braking MUCH harder but the control was radically better. My right leg is sore today.

    The CB7 is a great car for crapcan racing. It is so reliable. Ours has about 230,000 miles, the last 6,000+ are hard racing miles. That's like Anchorage to Key West by way of Los Angeles.

    I did spin in turn 5 and got tagged in the right rear. Nothing structural and we obviously finished the race.
    ==========================
    1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
    1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
    Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
    Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
    M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
    Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

    Comment


      Great job! We just finished up a weekend at Laguna Seca, and like you, our F22A1 has about 230k miles and probably 7 races on it and never misses a beat.

      How is the new transmission working out?

      So you're running CL 3.0 calipers? Do you think thats the cause of the modulation issues?


      We still have the stock Akebono (i think) calipers and although I have to put in a new set of rotors every other race, they work pretty well.

      Running the Raybestos ST43's

      Comment


        Originally posted by aventari View Post
        Great job! We just finished up a weekend at Laguna Seca, and like you, our F22A1 has about 230k miles and probably 7 races on it and never misses a beat.

        How is the new transmission working out?

        So you're running CL 3.0 calipers? Do you think thats the cause of the modulation issues?


        We still have the stock Akebono (i think) calipers and although I have to put in a new set of rotors every other race, they work pretty well.

        Running the Raybestos ST43's
        I saw your race results post, congratulations. How many cars were entered?

        We have always been unhappy with our braking modulation. I flat spotted one tire bad last time we were at Sonoma. This time each of us locked them up at least once in the bus stop. I don't think the new rotors and calipers made any difference in that respect. After looking at our race video I noticed my brake points were 2 cones earlier after we disconnected the booster. That's not great, but the modulation was improved and as they got hot the pedal feel was very clear but required huge strength. My right foot was tender on Monday and I was sore in new places on my right side. We'd love to get half the normal boost. Not sure how to do that.

        We used Raybestos ST43 for the first time this race. There was almost no noticeable wear on the pads! Amazing. My concern is that they might not get hot enough which would cause excessive rotor wear. Maybe that is happening to you.

        The transmission is great. I wish we could have one with custom close gearing. I feel like 5th gear must be lonely. We never use it. If we ever open it up again I'm going with an even lower final drive gear. It would be worth it. At Sonoma coming onto the front straight we get to use 2nd, 3rd, and 4th. I was grabbing 4 at the start finish line which is 300 feet earlier. I was also grabbing 4 after a good turn 7 exit by the second chicane where it used to be just after the chicanes. That's 800 feet earlier. We spend much more time in the powerband. The LSD is also super cool. Our turn exits are transformed. We get a launch advantage many much more powerful cars. It also became apparent to us that most of the fastest cars also have LSDs. You can just see it in their grip exiting tight turns. I found myself passing cars that used to pass me. I think part of that is driving confidence and improvement but some is the car.
        ==========================
        1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
        1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
        Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
        Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
        M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
        Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

        Comment


          I suspect that our brake bias is a bit off with the front's being too strong. Too much brakes on the front can cause locking up on the front since the rears are not doing enough work.

          I plan to remedy that by getting the rear disks off of something. I'm thinking that the rear disks on a CL3.0 are designed to go with the front disks. So I'll try that. Does anyone know if they are different from the rear disks on an CB7 EX? With disks back there we could experiment with different compounds to level out the bias.
          ==========================
          1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
          1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
          Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
          Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
          M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
          Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

          Comment


            I've done so much on our car in the last few months. The biggest thing is the new rear brakes. We had way too much front brake bias after switching to the front knuckles from an Acura CL3.0. So I figured the best way to balance it is to use the rear brakes from the same car. That's what we did. Since I had that all apart and because I messed up the threads on one of the upper ball joints, I decided that I should go ahead and get adjustable upper control arms for the back. I think I got the Moog's off Rockauto.

            I disassembled the rear bumper and straightened it out from the hit we took at the last race. That was much harder than I expected. Then I noticed that the right front camber had changed. Maybe the hit straighted out our chassis a bit. So I had to re-adjust and then brace the front right adjustable upper control arm.

            We bought smaller wheels for smaller tires. That's right smaller tires and wheels will make us faster. Little known truth, your contact patch size has nothing to do with your tire width. It is only determined by your tire pressure. The contact patch shape is changed by tire width. Bigger wheels and bigger tire weigh lots more and have much more rotational moment of inertia. I put our old race wheels and tires on my Honda Fit and I was astonished at how much they bogged my car down! It was like having 800lbs of cargo and passengers. We are excited about that. We are trying the Nexens this time because they were super cheap ($84 each!).

            We replaced the exhaust from the collector back with 2" pipe. We still have the same glasspack muffler but it is mounted better now.

            Weekend before last I took it around the block only to find surging idle and sputtering at WOT. I fixed the idle for now by adjusting the fast idle valve and fixed the WOT problem with new cap, rotor, and plugs. Tune it up! With all of that I haven't had time to paint over the crash scars. Maybe on Friday after tech inspection.

            The race is this weekend at Sonoma Raceway (Sears Point). It's gonna be fun!
            ==========================
            1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
            1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
            Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
            Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
            M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
            Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

            Comment


              Thanks for the update. I always enjoy reading your posts and seeing what you can do for not a lot of money.

              Re tires. I completely agree with everything you said about the advantages of lower weight with smaller tires and wheels and how it doesn't affect the contact area. Not to mention that using a smaller tire has the same effect as a shorter final drive ratio on performance.

              But tire width and sidewall width do affect how well the tire can handle turns. Thus, my preferred tire size on my Accord wagon is a 225/45R15. Which is available in a few extreme performance summer tires, including the Kumho Ecsta V720 and Nexen N FERA SUR4. Although these really work better with wheels at least 7.5" wide, which are hard to come by for the Accord, so I usually wind up with a 205/50R15 tire.

              Comment


                Finally Fast

                We had a great race! No reliability issues despite taking a few hits. As I've discussed above we've made several improvements, and it is finally starting to feel sorted out. Between the smaller lighter wheels/tires and the new exhaust we seem to have lots more useable power. The handling was not hurt by the new shoes. Now that we have CL3.0 brakes on all 4 corners it's much better.

                We did have a few bangups on saturday and by the time I got behind the wheel the alignment was waaaay off. Saturday night I took out about 6 degrees of toe in! and the added 1.5 degrees of negative camber to get it back to normal. I think frame straightening is in our future. If we had space I'd be wondering if a fresh frame would be best. But the adjustments worked and it drove great on Sunday.

                I was able to pass lots of cars that used to pass me, and the cars I used to race with disapear in the rearview in no time. We still finished in 50th pretty much like our last two races, but each of us set new personal records for this track. I beat my old best by about 2 seconds. Dennis' best improved by 4-5 seconds and Tedd hacked off nearly 6 seconds from his previous best. Check out Tedd's smokin' fast lap from Sunday. 2:08.9! Our previous best was 2:14.3.

                Last edited by ukemike; 03-28-2017, 12:20 PM.
                ==========================
                1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                Comment


                  Love the video! The trinkets inside the cab are a nice touch. Might be due for a steering wheel realignment as well. I would love to run one of these and watch one. They seem fun as hell
                  ~Nick~
                  FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
                  MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Grumpys93 View Post
                    Might be due for a steering wheel realignment as well.
                    We got hit and it messed with our alignment. Setting the toe quick and dirty on Saturday night is easy. Setting the toe while getting the steering wheel straight takes longer. I opted for quick and easy.
                    ==========================
                    1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                    1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                    Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                    Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                    M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                    Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                    Comment


                      So on Chris' first lap on Saturday he turned in way way too early for turn 11 and a car was overtaking him on the inside hit him on the right front wheel.





                      The result of that was the camber went from -3.0 degrees to 0.0 degrees and there was a ton of toe in. We adjusted it back to -3 and set the toe by using up all of the free threads on the tie rods.

                      Today I got under the car and found where the damage was. We are lucky. It appears to be only on the lower control arm mount bracket. You can see where the bracket buckled and folded. It's an inch too far in. You can also see grease from the CV all over. The boot looks good but there is a small cut in it.



                      Unfortunately the bracket is part of the "rear beam" which is practically married to the steering rack and won't be easy to get out or get back in. I'll have to get a good one from the junkyard and swap it in. I guess this will be my chance to properly modify the steering rack to fill it with grease instead of power steering fluid, so I can loose the pump and all the plumbing.
                      ==========================
                      1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                      1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                      Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                      Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                      M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                      Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                      Comment


                        Got the cross member and steering rack

                        Originally posted by ukemike View Post
                        ...Unfortunately the bracket is part of the "rear beam" which is practically married to the steering rack and won't be easy to get out or get back in. I'll have to get a good one from the junkyard and swap it in. I guess this will be my chance to properly modify the steering rack to fill it with grease instead of power steering fluid, so I can loose the pump and all the plumbing.
                        Well I went to the picknpull on saturday and got lucky. The very first Accord I came to had the transmission already removed. To do this they had taken off the exhaust down pipe and disassembled most the the right side suspension. So part of my work to access my parts was done. yay! Also I was lucky in that I encountered no rusted or frozen parts, and no stuck ball joints. It was still a few hours work. I had to disconnect the lower control arms from the mounts on both sides, disconnect the tie rods, disconnect all the power steering fluid lines, drain the ps fluid, and loosen the bolts holding the cross member on the frame. Then since the folks had removed the tranny it was missing the transmission mount and I was going to remove the rear engine mount. The front engine mount is more of a torque limiter and wouldn't prevent the motor from falling on my head. The left mount had been disconnected. I had to find a nut (on the civic next door) to reconnect the right engine mount. After that I removed the rear motor mount through bolt, and removed the bolts from the cross member. It didn't fall so I realized that the steering column was still connected. So I wormed into the driver foot well, cut the plastic cover over the steering column off, and removed the bolt holding the u-joint onto the column. When I got that out the whole steering rack/cross member fell a few inches. It had snagged on one of the lower control arms. After considerable additional fiddling and levering I finally got it out of there. It is heavy. I balanced it on the hand truck with my tool box and hauled it up to the checkout. $108. Not bad. Even the heat wouldn't have been bad if my sweat hadn't run into my eyes so many times. I was soooo covered in grease. The donor car had two torn cv boots and everything under there had a nasty thick layer of grease/dirt undercoating.

                        Now I need to do it all again and then in reverse on the race car after I
                        mod the steering rack to make it a manual rack.

                        Since I got that accomplished and I have a promise from a team member to help me at the pickpull in early june. I think we'll get the head and intake off a f22a6! Mo power baby!
                        ==========================
                        1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                        1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                        Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                        Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                        M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                        Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                        Comment


                          Installing the crossmember and the steering rack in our race car was a gargantuan task. It took days of work over the course of weeks. There seemed like there were a thousand little things that needed to be disconnected. The process revealed that our frame is bent. I think it has been all along. I know that the right and left caster are unlikely to ever match. So I still have to re-align everything and that process should tell me a lot about how bad it is. I'm going to work on that today. After that it'll be the battery re-locate and the new kill switch with the alternator protect circuit. Then we're installing a fire suppression system.

                          I've been distracted by a dozen things in the mean time. The biggest distraction has been our daily drivers. My wife finished grad school this spring and has a paying job again. We decided it was time to upgrade our fleet. I took her '97 civic and gave her my '13 Fit. I am trying to sell the Civic and I bought an '06 Acura TL with manual transmission for me. I'm sure y'all know that it is basically a glorified Accord V6. And boy is it glorified. Six speed manual transmission, 258hp with tons of torque from about 2000 rpm up, huge front and rear sway bars, Brembo 4 pot front calipers, limited slip differential, and two or three cows worth of leather interior. It's like the race car but much bigger, much faster, much more gas consumption, and much much more comfort. I actually finish my commutes feeling relaxed and refreshed. That's totally worth the terrible fuel economy. I'm averaging 22mpg on the first two tanks!
                          ==========================
                          1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                          1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                          Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                          Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                          M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                          Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                          Comment


                            I wish I saw this earlier, I took my CB7 to a frame shop after our bad front end crash and had it straightened. The frame guy says the front frame horns are famously weak and bend easily. He recommended I weld up some braces, which it won't be easy to do, but I might do it when I pull the motor.

                            I love your junkyard story, I totally understand. The worst is laying in the dirt to do all that.

                            Are you headed to Buttonwillow?!? I hope so, cuz we'll be there.


                            Thumbs up on the TL! I had a beat up 2000 TL with the slushbox and that was a great car. So comfortable and powerful, but handled ok too. I was constantly worried the tranny was going to die so I sold it, but an 04-07 TL type-S with the 6 speed is like my ultimate daily driver. They look great too.

                            If I didn't have a 97 BMW M3, I'd have another TL.

                            Comment


                              We wanted to do Buttonwillow, but I got so far behind on fixing the car we skipped it. I hope you did well. We are going to Sonoma in early December. I'm relocating the battery, installing a better kill switch, and installing a fire suppression system before the race (hopefully).

                              I did finally get it all back together but it is clear that the frame is not straight. I haven't seen whether the adjustable bits can compensate and get us matching neg camber up front. Cross your fingers.

                              I'm going to try to get the team into the LuckyDog race at Laguna Seca next year. Racing there is a childhood dream.
                              ==========================
                              1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                              1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                              Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                              Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                              M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                              Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                              Comment


                                Two weeks or so to our next race. This time at Sonoma (Sears Point to me). We've moved the battery and replaced the cuttoff switch with one that won't damage the alternator. We replaced the steering and the big frame piece that carries the steering rack and the rear motor mount etc. We just got new much smaller diameter tires for lower final drive. They look different than the current fashion but should make us faster. We got a new driver who has been helping with the wrenching a bit.

                                I'm hoping we can break out of the 50th place range.

                                More details are in here
                                http://picknpullracing.wordpress.com
                                ==========================
                                1991 Accord Lemons Race Car, "The Minnow" RIP
                                1993 Accord Lemons Race Car, "SpaceEx Starship"
                                Neuspeed Race Springs, Koni Sports, Acura CL Rear Sway Bar,
                                Adj Upper Control Arms -3.0deg front, -2.0 deg rear
                                M2A4 Trans, Cusco 1-way Limited Slip Differential, Stage 2 Clutch and 11lb flywheel. A4 Header, 2" exhaust all the way back, catalyst delete, delta 262 grind, glasspack muffler, PT6 ECU.
                                Acura CL3.0 Brakes Front and Rear, Raybestos St43 Pads, Redline 600 Brake Fluid

                                Comment

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