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    #16
    Originally posted by deevergote View Post
    Ford's current offerings are global. We no longer get inferior models.
    We are still not getting the Cosworth models which are the best product Ford Europe has to offer.
    [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFNC7Z]

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      #17
      The euro ctr is 306. I see a good chance of them bumping that figure for the U.S. Release. Wouldn't that be ironic if the U.S. Had the hottest version of a Honda. Either way it will certainly be the most capable fwd available.
      Edit...never mind I guess they announced 306 hp
      Last edited by cb7 calling; 03-12-2017, 09:22 AM.
      ......father in law has it back again. Time to shine

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        #18
        Originally posted by Crankshaft View Post
        We are still not getting the Cosworth models which are the best product Ford Europe has to offer.
        So true. But they got to miss out on the Ford Mustang until recently.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
          So true. But they got to miss out on the Ford Mustang until recently.
          I think Ford has done this to keep Mustang sales from tanking, why would anyone pay for a 400HP Mustang when you can get a 650HP Focus? The Ford red key program was pretty cool too since it allowed for a different tune to be accessed with the use of a second key, kind of how the Australian 5.4 were (supposedly) able to recognize the fuel being used and adjust timing accordingly.
          [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFNC7Z]

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            #20
            Originally posted by deevergote View Post
            That's pretty awesome.
            That really is a buttload of power to the front wheels, even at the 306 figure.
            Originally posted by AccordWarrior View Post
            Is the Focus RS still selling well over MSRP?

            I suspect the CTR will do the same, at least initially. I bet you'll see scenarios like when the Mugen Si was released in the US with multiple thefts as well.

            The cars really operate in completely different arenas. The allure of the Focus RS is the so-called drift model AWDKENBLOCKHOONIGANDANKVAPINGFLATBRIMMONSTERRRRRR feature. The CTR is more the JDM fanboys who won't be caught dead in a Ford.
            I don't think they are moving as fast as Ford anticipated. The fact that they are WAAAAY more expensive than the ST doesn't help, but they also don't perform quite like you would expect a "350HP" to perform compared to cars like the previous Type-R and Golf-R.

            Originally posted by JaK FRoSTWhiTE View Post
            Really excited about this new Type R. Finally, Honda is doing something they should have done a long time ago. But it makes sense now. Traditionally Honda (and Civic's in general) have been marketed as econo entry level. That's my hunch why they decided to only bring the ITR here, for Acura. Remember that was like $24k MSRP ($36k adjusted for inflation). Pretty expensive compared to a Civic DX of the time. Nowadays you can get a Civic hatchback Sport Touring for $28k.

            From what I know, the first year Type R will be very limited. Dealers are only getting 1, if any, and a max of 3 going to the top Civic selling dealer. This was based on 2016 calendar year Civic sales.
            I think the only way they are going to be able to go crazy with pricing is if volume is ridiculously. While the Type-R is exciting, I think Honda is really shooting themselves in the foot by putting a 1.5T in the Si. People will actually be able to get those and likely won't want them in the face of the ST and GTI, etc.

            Originally posted by Crankshaft View Post
            I think Ford has done this to keep Mustang sales from tanking, why would anyone pay for a 400HP Mustang when you can get a 650HP Focus? The Ford red key program was pretty cool too since it allowed for a different tune to be accessed with the use of a second key, kind of how the Australian 5.4 were (supposedly) able to recognize the fuel being used and adjust timing accordingly.
            I'd rather have a Mustang any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Focus hatch is dreadfully small with the sport seats in there, and even the hatch is small compared to the competition.
            The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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              #21
              Originally posted by owequitit View Post

              I'd rather have a Mustang any day of the week and twice on Sunday. The Focus hatch is dreadfully small with the sport seats in there, and even the hatch is small compared to the competition.
              It depends on the intended purpose of the tool you choose; for everyday driving, eye candy and comodity the Mustang would be a clear choice. For an all out machine that can be tuned on stock trim to 1000hp without touching the engine, all while having AWD and Cosworth reputation as THE SECOND most succesful wins behind Ferrari and yet don't care about trunk space or size; Cosworth equipped version of the Focus would be unmatched.
              [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFNC7Z]

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                #22
                For the average enthusiast, the Mustang really does offer the most accessible performance. The Focus RS is extremely capable, sure. But I'm with owequitit on this one. Mustang gives more power in a simpler package for roughly the same price.






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                  #23
                  Same here, if you're going to put the two in the same sentence. Whether it's an ST or RS, I think the Focus is a fantastic car, but at the end of the day it's still a family hatchback. I don't want one; I want the 'sexy' FR sports coupe.

                  Since the thread is about the Focus versus the Civic... I'm a Honda guy. There have been "better" cheapish cars forever now, and I still love Hondas. That interest obviously doesn't care about the performance numbers, and it never will. True Honda enthusiasts will want the Honda, while people who don't have history with Honda or with either car will probably go for the RS.

                  Accord Aero-R

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                    Same here, if you're going to put the two in the same sentence. Whether it's an ST or RS, I think the Focus is a fantastic car, but at the end of the day it's still a family hatchback. I don't want one; I want the 'sexy' FR sports coupe.

                    Since the thread is about the Focus versus the Civic... I'm a Honda guy. There have been "better" cheapish cars forever now, and I still love Hondas. That interest obviously doesn't care about the performance numbers, and it never will. True Honda enthusiasts will want the Honda, while people who don't have history with Honda or with either car will probably go for the RS.
                    well said

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by Crankshaft View Post
                      It depends on the intended purpose of the tool you choose; for everyday driving, eye candy and comodity the Mustang would be a clear choice. For an all out machine that can be tuned on stock trim to 1000hp without touching the engine, all while having AWD and Cosworth reputation as THE SECOND most succesful wins behind Ferrari and yet don't care about trunk space or size; Cosworth equipped version of the Focus would be unmatched.
                      I'd take the Mustang all day long and twice on Sunday.

                      You think you can't get 1,000HP out of a Mustang pretty easily? Have you seen the GT350?

                      Cosworth cars aren't that common and they are expensive. Plus, I question the claim that Cosworth is "2nd winningest behind Ferrari." In what metric? What series.

                      The winningest car company on Earth is Porsche. The winningest chassis on earth is the E30 3 series and Honda is up there in the pantheon as well being one of the only companies that has dominated every from of motorsport from dirt bikes to F1.
                      The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                        Same here, if you're going to put the two in the same sentence. Whether it's an ST or RS, I think the Focus is a fantastic car, but at the end of the day it's still a family hatchback. I don't want one; I want the 'sexy' FR sports coupe.

                        Since the thread is about the Focus versus the Civic... I'm a Honda guy. There have been "better" cheapish cars forever now, and I still love Hondas. That interest obviously doesn't care about the performance numbers, and it never will. True Honda enthusiasts will want the Honda, while people who don't have history with Honda or with either car will probably go for the RS.
                        I feel the Mustang comparison is still valid in this discussion, as it presents a purer sports car option that is in some ways superior for about the same money as both the Civic and the Focus. It also brings a RWD option into the mix (though we could probably go with the Camaro in this discussion just as well... not the Challenger, though... that thing needs a refresh before it's on the same level as the Mustang and Camaro.)

                        People will choose the Civic Type R over the Focus RS in much the same way people will choose the Focus RS over the Mustang GT. Each car does things differently. Each car is honestly far more powerful than the average enthusiast will ever need on public roads.
                        The Mustang has some handling ability, but the Civic and Focus will probably outhandle it. The Civic is probably the lightest of the three, as well as the least complicated. The Focus offers AWD traction, which is nice when you need the car in terrible weather. The Mustang has a rich drag racing heritage. The Focus has a rich European rally heritage. The Civic has a rich Japanese road racing heritage. Each has plenty of appeal for very different reasons.
                        It's your pickle... you buy what tickles it.






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                          #27
                          I guess I'm just in that "V8 or nothing" camp when it comes to the Mustang. The EcoBoost (and I guess V6) is the only fair comparison, and I could never own one knowing a V8 was available.

                          Accord Aero-R

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                            #28
                            Same here. I mean, the V6 and Ecoboost Mustangs make 100hp more than the V8 Mustangs that were available during the CB7's run... but still, a proper Mustang has a V8!

                            The Mustang GT starts at about $33,000 (and you can probably get it for closer to $30,000 if you catch a sale, or grab a year-end model.) That's cheaper than both the Civic Type R or the Focus RS (or the Golf R, or the STi, for that matter...)

                            For some reason, though, buying a Mustang always kinda felt like cheating... like you're just buying the fast car instead of building it. Totally silly, I know. Factory reliability (fortunately, new Mustangs seem come with that standard for the first time ever...) is worthwhile. Another good thing about the Mustang GT is that it isn't a little 4 cylinder that's been tuned to the limit from the factory. It's just a lazy V8 that won't eat itself if you forget to change the oil for an extra 1000 miles (not saying the Civic or Focus necessarily would... but forced induction is always touchier than naturally aspirated in street form.)






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                              #29
                              Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                              I feel the Mustang comparison is still valid in this discussion, as it presents a purer sports car option that is in some ways superior for about the same money as both the Civic and the Focus. It also brings a RWD option into the mix (though we could probably go with the Camaro in this discussion just as well... not the Challenger, though... that thing needs a refresh before it's on the same level as the Mustang and Camaro.)

                              People will choose the Civic Type R over the Focus RS in much the same way people will choose the Focus RS over the Mustang GT. Each car does things differently. Each car is honestly far more powerful than the average enthusiast will ever need on public roads.
                              The Mustang has some handling ability, but the Civic and Focus will probably outhandle it. The Civic is probably the lightest of the three, as well as the least complicated. The Focus offers AWD traction, which is nice when you need the car in terrible weather. The Mustang has a rich drag racing heritage. The Focus has a rich European rally heritage. The Civic has a rich Japanese road racing heritage. Each has plenty of appeal for very different reasons.
                              It's your pickle... you buy what tickles it.
                              The person who's buying the CTR or Focus RS is probably someone who needs the back doors for infants / kids / hauling people as a regular situation. It's a compromise car.

                              The average person who's cross shopping those cars (as well as the Golf R and WRX) has already eliminated the Mustang / Camaro because they're two doors.

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                                #30
                                I don't know about that, the demographic for these kinds of tuner cars is mostly 20-somethings with no kids. I feel like if Subaru still made a coupe STI it would be at least as popular as the sedan.

                                Accord Aero-R

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