A standard rear mount, or even an aftermarket equivalent, might be the best method for the subframe in this instance. A custom bracket would then be needed to position the engine on that mount which could factor in a shorter length (assuming we all agree it needs to be further back in the bay to accommodate an ideal axle angle) and horizontal positioning.
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Last edited by Jarrett; 12-23-2016, 11:11 AM.My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!
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Originally posted by Jarrett View PostA standard rear mount, or even an aftermarket equivalent, might be the best method for the subframe in this instance. A custom bracket would then be needed to position the engine on that mount which could factor in a shorter length (assuming we all agree it needs to be further back in the bay to accommodate an ideal axle angle) and horizontal positioning.
I just did a junkyard run, and the 7th gen Accord might have a good passenger side engine mount option, especially since they're becoming really common now. If someone wanted to do a J30a4 swap instead, those are really REALLY common to find now. A type-s engine is getting difficult to find in the junkyard. Also, I am starting to see 2005 Acura RL's more often now, so the J35a8 swap is looking like it might be a good option. Used '07-'08 Type-S transmissions aren't common but are available online. Just need to find one when it first comes in, then I can grab the brake calipers too.
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They sell for around $200. They're nearly everywhere.My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!
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This is what Alex had to clearance off of his subframe to get the J-series differential housing to clear. I imagine it would be much the same for the CB Accord as it was for his CD.
For anyone wanting to check out his whole build thread, it's here.My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!
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Originally posted by '93CB7Ex View Postsnag those calipers off the rl man! those are worth some money.Originally posted by Jarrett View PostThey sell for around $200. They're nearly everywhere.
Thank god! That thread was my original inspiration to look into this years ago, and why I eventually pushed to do it. It's not as informative as I'd like, but it's still fun just to see the build.
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I looked at track widths a bit today. The factory CB track width is listed as 58.3". The 2005 Acura RL is listed at 62" and the TL at 62.1". So, using those subframes would present the issue of a 4" wider track in the front. Before we start considering wheel offsets to bring this back to an easier setup, remember that it's still a 5x120 hub on the RL and an adapter is another 1.25" on either side for a total of 6.5" in increased width. The wheel bearings on the RL are beefy, so I'm not worried about them, but the car would look a little silly without something being done in the back to match the front.
Here's a crossmember for an '88-'91 Civic/CR-X that Whitfield Mfg. makes. It's chromoly construction specifically designed to allow big K-series headers to fit in those cramped engine bays.
If we could have something like this made for us, that would be the icing on the cake for getting this swap done. The mount pattern could be made to hold the factory CB-style rear mount and the factory J-series mount. If it could hold the factory J-series mount, we could use the OEM aluminum bracket to establish a baseline location for front-to-rear positioning of the engine in the bay.My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!
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Originally posted by Jarrett View PostI looked at track widths a bit today. The factory CB track width is listed as 58.3". The 2005 Acura RL is listed at 62" and the TL at 62.1". So, using those subframes would present the issue of a 4" wider track in the front. Before we start considering wheel offsets to bring this back to an easier setup, remember that it's still a 5x120 hub on the RL and an adapter is another 1.25" on either side for a total of 6.5" in increased width. The wheel bearings on the RL are beefy, so I'm not worried about them, but the car would look a little silly without something being done in the back to match the front.
Here's a crossmember for an '88-'91 Civic/CR-X that Whitfield Mfg. makes. It's chromoly construction specifically designed to allow big K-series headers to fit in those cramped engine bays.
If we could have something like this made for us, that would be the icing on the cake for getting this swap done. The mount pattern could be made to hold the factory CB-style rear mount and the factory J-series mount. If it could hold the factory J-series mount, we could use the OEM aluminum bracket to establish a baseline location for front-to-rear positioning of the engine in the bay.
A custom subframe would be great, but expensive. It would definitely make this more accessible, but let's be honest the community is dwindling and those remaining are either in a longterm project already or would be excited for this but never complete it.
I really just need to get my hands on an engine and transmission. From there, I could get pictures of how it lines up in the bay and see what would need to be done to actually mount this bad boy. I've been thinking about mounts still, and we might be able to drill the existing rear crossmember for the OEM mounts. Front mount I think will be the Innovative Prelude mount and traction bar, passenger side mount could be bolt-in aftermarket for another chassis or bolt-in OEM modified, driver side I'm curious if I could replicate Alex's side mount and use the Hasport trans mount with the CB7 original driverside mount. I don't know if I could obtain only that mount however, so I'm still looking at other opportunities.
You wouldn't happen to need to replace one of your engines with a '91 SE black leather interior, would you?
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Originally posted by willbill642 View PostHonestly, I wouldn't be opposed to a wider track. It'd enhance corner stability and reduce weight transfer, although it would probably cause a lot of fabrication work.
Originally posted by willbill642 View PostA custom subframe would be great, but expensive. It would definitely make this more accessible, but let's be honest the community is dwindling and those remaining are either in a longterm project already or would be excited for this but never complete it.
More of an excuse to go turbo at that point as the rear manifold could just direct toward the transmission instead of having to squeeze past the crossmember.
Originally posted by willbill642 View PostI really just need to get my hands on an engine and transmission. From there, I could get pictures of how it lines up in the bay and see what would need to be done to actually mount this bad boy. I've been thinking about mounts still, and we might be able to drill the existing rear crossmember for the OEM mounts. Front mount I think will be the Innovative Prelude mount and traction bar, passenger side mount could be bolt-in aftermarket for another chassis or bolt-in OEM modified, driver side I'm curious if I could replicate Alex's side mount and use the Hasport trans mount with the CB7 original driverside mount. I don't know if I could obtain only that mount however, so I'm still looking at other opportunities.
Originally posted by willbill642 View PostYou wouldn't happen to need to replace one of your engines with a '91 SE black leather interior, would you?My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!
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Originally posted by Jarrett View PostAgreed in principle, but 6.5 inches?! That's quite a bit to increase. You'd need to cut out your fenders and quarter panels and install flares to cover the rear wheels. I don't know what you would do outside of getting 10"-wide wheels in the back with a moderate offset.
Originally posted by Jarrett View PostYou're right. It's not very feasible. But it would be nice to build it to your specs and have the rear mount drop in and clear the rear header. With the clearance I imagine you would have back there after moving the engine far back enough to correct axle angle, you're not going to be able to fit much beyond the aftermarket Comptech copies that are sold. That's not the worst news as they have been dyno-proven to gain 14 whp on a J32A2, but larger diameter long tubes would be so much nicer!
More of an excuse to go turbo at that point as the rear manifold could just direct toward the transmission instead of having to squeeze past the crossmember.
Originally posted by Jarrett View PostI honestly never even thought of positioning the mount and drilling/nut-serting for it. That's so easy! You could do the same thing with the rear mount and bracket that comes in the Hasport/Innovative kits. That's a lot easier than modifying the bracket to reach the mount.
Originally posted by Jarrett View PostI have every single part I need for an OEM black interior in my coupe. The parts I can't get, I'm retrofitting from other cars or have dyed with SEM landau black.
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Sorry that I've been so busy and haven't had a chance to get back to this thread. Here are the pictures of the 3rd Gen TL front subframe.
Subframe
Front Engine Mount
Rear Engine Mount
Middle Mount to Frame 1
Middle Mount to Frame 2
Front Mount to Frame
Rear Mount to Frame
Sway Bar and Rack over Subframe
Front Mount of Control Arm
Rear Mount of Control Arm
Upper Control Arm Ball Joint
Upper Control Arm Mounts
J32A3 Mounted on Subframe (You can see how it sits on the front motor mount here.)
Passenger Side Engine Mount
Rear Engine Mount
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Originally posted by Rilas View PostSorry that I've been so busy and haven't had a chance to get back to this thread. Here are the pictures of the 3rd Gen TL front subframe.
Subframe
Front Engine Mount
Rear Engine Mount
Middle Mount to Frame 1
Middle Mount to Frame 2
Front Mount to Frame
Rear Mount to Frame
Sway Bar and Rack over Subframe
Front Mount of Control Arm
Rear Mount of Control Arm
Upper Control Arm Ball Joint
Upper Control Arm Mounts
J32A3 Mounted on Subframe (You can see how it sits on the front motor mount here.)
Passenger Side Engine Mount
Rear Engine Mount
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Even if the subframe isn't useful hopefully something I showed you is useful. The Innovative front mount is almost identical to the rear. They just sent me 2 rears and I didn't have the front at the time I took the pictures. I think the mounts can be transferred from the new blocks to the old ones to use the newer style mounts. I could be wrong on this though. Jarrett would have some better insight into this than myself.
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Originally posted by Rilas View PostEven if the subframe isn't useful hopefully something I showed you is useful. The Innovative front mount is almost identical to the rear. They just sent me 2 rears and I didn't have the front at the time I took the pictures. I think the mounts can be transferred from the new blocks to the old ones to use the newer style mounts. I could be wrong on this though. Jarrett would have some better insight into this than myself.
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