lets talk about vaping

[deevergote]

Just because you can doesn't mean you should.

This sums it up perfectly.


I understand that it's not smoking, but it's still not something that should be done just anywhere, at any time. If there's a flavor, there's a smell. If you're inhaling nicotine, you're exhaling it as well. Anyone that doesn't want to be exposed to that, or have their kids exposed to it, shouldn't have to. Even if there's no harmful effects, most people don't know what the effects are at all... so of course any intelligent parent wouldn't want some unknown chemical exhaled on their kid!

I don't see anything wrong with it in appropriate situations (certainly better than smoking), but be polite!


And yes... the assholes that abuse their current freedom to do it whenever and wherever they want are pissing people off. Those pissed off people are going to make a stink, and demand that laws be passed. Then said laws WILL be passed, and you'll be restricted in when and where you can do it just as with smoking.

As with anything, it's not just the whiners that make things tough for everyone else... it's also the people that abuse the lack of laws to set those whiners into action. (just like with our cars... fart cans weren't outlawed until a dozen mothers complained about their babies getting woken up at midnight by the local ricer... and if you have kids, you know how infuriating it is when you FINALLY got your kid to sleep and something wakes him up!)

[illinois_erik]

welp.. how many cigs do you smoke? I tried my ecig for about 7 months it was ok i smoked about a pack a day b4 then, then at work it was a nusance to catch a buzz, stuff would get into the carto like pocket lint, the sellers ejuice varied between batches, the OEM carts i got were like candy so tasty..but the hassle combined with expense and "labor" to smoke, i just went back to regular cigs, pallmall 100s , but those made me cough up like frigging caulk I noticed..so now I smoke my good ole camel wides now, and im up to almost 2 packs a day, i think it was my 24mg cartos. Not advisable for blue collar workers, its ok if youre like a student or trendster or unemployed/broke

[reklipz]

I understand that it's not smoking, but it's still not something that should be done just anywhere, at any time. If there's a flavor, there's a smell. If you're inhaling nicotine, you're exhaling it as well. Anyone that doesn't want to be exposed to that, or have their kids exposed to it, shouldn't have to. Even if there's no harmful effects, most people don't know what the effects are at all... so of course any intelligent parent wouldn't want some unknown chemical exhaled on their kid!

What about farts, which can generally be controlled by their... owner? I expect that inhaling fart clouds isn't the best thing for you, and I don't want people farting in my general vicinity (actually, I don't really care so much, but for the sake of argument). Why is there no government regulation against farting in public? Obviously this is contrived... I can't really find any information about whether or not inhaling flatulence has health effects, but eating feces is bad for you, and farts ~= feces, so if anything, inhaling farts is bad for you. In fact, it's possible that inhaling fart gas is on the same order of "bad for you" as vaporized tobacco juice (because we've already established that we don't know the effects of second-hand vapor*). I don't see anyone running to create regulation against farting in private establishments, so by that basis, why is it any more logical to conclude we need the same for tobacco juice vapor? That, and only that, is the point I am trying to make.

A bit more toward what I think what Ryan wanted to discuss:

I have some friends that smoke cigarettes, and they tell me that when they smoke, they aren't doing it for the buzz they might have started smoking for, they do it basically because they're addicted. None of them have really told me that smoking helps them in other ways than "getting their fix," e.g. relieving stress (though they might just be unaware of this; and on the contrary, the stress that they're relieving might be self-induced by smoking, making the benefit completely moot). As well, I've heard the same from folks switching to vaporizing: that vaporizing doesn't really give them a buzz, but still just let's them "get their fix" with presumably fewer negatives. So I ask: Why do you enjoy vaporizing? Is there any social factor that drives you? How would you characterize the differences between what you get out of vaporizing vs. what you got from smoking?

* I actually doubt this to be true, given that vaporizing is marketed as an alternative to smoking, I expect there was lots of study regarding second-hand vapor vs. smoke. I'd be willing to present some research if it would matter to anyone.

[RyanD]

What about farts, which can generally be controlled by their... owner? I expect that inhaling fart clouds isn't the best thing for you, and I don't want people farting in my general vicinity (actually, I don't really care so much, but for the sake of argument). Why is there no government regulation against farting in public? Obviously this is contrived... I can't really find any information about whether or not inhaling flatulence has health effects, but eating feces is bad for you, and farts ~= feces, so if anything, inhaling farts is bad for you. In fact, it's possible that inhaling fart gas is on the same order of "bad for you" as vaporized tobacco juice (because we've already established that we don't know the effects of second-hand vapor*). I don't see anyone running to create regulation against farting in private establishments, so by that basis, why is it any more logical to conclude we need the same for tobacco juice vapor? That, and only that, is the point I am trying to make.

A bit more toward what I think what Ryan wanted to discuss:

I have some friends that smoke cigarettes, and they tell me that when they smoke, they aren't doing it for the buzz they might have started smoking for, they do it basically because they're addicted. None of them have really told me that smoking helps them in other ways than "getting their fix," e.g. relieving stress (though they might just be unaware of this; and on the contrary, the stress that they're relieving might be self-induced by smoking, making the benefit completely moot). As well, I've heard the same from folks switching to vaporizing: that vaporizing doesn't really give them a buzz, but still just let's them "get their fix" with presumably fewer negatives. So I ask: Why do you enjoy vaporizing? Is there any social factor that drives you? How would you characterize the differences between what you get out of vaporizing vs. what you got from smoking?

* I actually doubt this to be true, given that vaporizing is marketed as an alternative to smoking, I expect there was lots of study regarding second-hand vapor vs. smoke. I'd be willing to present some research if it would matter to anyone.

i would like to see some research. i find that stuff cool

i vape mostly because i quit smoking. i have however steped down my nic content in my juice to half that of a cig

the other reason i vape is simply because i enjoy it. my buddy and i like the flavors and enjoy letting out huge clouds of vape in the living room

[Ralphie]

Please show me where doing this is safer then smoking?

Not one of you know's EXACTLY what's in that shit.

It's just vaporized, but you're still bringing chemicals into your body.

You can go on a tirade and claim it's 100x healthier, but im not buying it.

I love how people act holier then thou when vaping, but in 20 years, when shit is shown to be worse then smoking because you build up some kind of junk in your lungs from the biproducts of it, then it will be a shame.

And in any case, no matter what you do, YOU ARE taking away from the elasticity of your lungs, so eventually they will perform less then someone who doesn't smoke.

[KpoweredCB7]

Please show me where doing this is safer then smoking?

Not one of you know's EXACTLY what's in that shit.

It's just vaporized, but you're still bringing chemicals into your body.

You can go on a tirade and claim it's 100x healthier, but im not buying it.

I love how people act holier then thou when vaping, but in 20 years, when shit is shown to be worse then smoking because you build up some kind of junk in your lungs from the biproducts of it, then it will be a shame.

And in any case, no matter what you do, YOU ARE taking away from the elasticity of your lungs, so eventually they will perform less then someone who doesn't smoke.

Very good point who really knows "exactly" what is in it. I'm only hoping it is "healthier" than smoking cigarettes.

[AAPOQ]

From what I understand, nicotine is no more harmful to your body than Caffeine. The problem is the delivery method.

[RyanD]

all that is in non commerical juice is:

VG or vegetable glycerin which gives you the vapor or smoke you see on exhale. VG is the EXACT main thing in fog machine juice. fda approved and save

PG or Propylene glycol which is added to safely dilute the nicotine and allow atomization. also fda approved and safe

Flavor: the exact same shit you use to flavor your coffee just concentrated. once again it is fda approved and save

nicotine.



as you can see your are pretty much carrying around a portable fog machine.

it is safe for you and IT WILL NOT HARM you. if any of you spend a bit of time on google you will find that in some ways for an ex-smoker it is good for you. it cleans out your lungs

[Ralphie]

So Ryan please tell me you don't really believe that inhaling a fog machine everyday for x amount of years will be healthy for you?

I believe you to be smarter then that.

FDA approved is a crock of shit anyway.

[RyanD]

So Ryan please tell me you don't really believe that inhaling a fog machine everyday for x amount of years will be healthy for you?

I believe you to be smarter then that.

FDA approved is a crock of shit anyway.

PG is used for tissue regrowth. so in your terms yes. why dont you do some research first before making such claims.

[toycar]

PG is used for tissue regrowth. so in your terms yes. why dont you do some research first before making such claims.

Dude you come off like you know it all about this shit, and the truth is that nobody knows much about it yet. It hasn't been around long enough for anyone to know shit about the long term affects.


I'm surprised you would take such a position.





Also, you're all defensive and shit like you don't understand how and why its bullshit that people feel the need to "vape" whenever the fuck they feel like it like common decency, common sense doesn't apply.



My point was pretty simple. Assholes are being assholes about the new trendy hobby. The ones(you may be one of them) that are just pulling that shit out in the check out lane or while they are sitting in the lobby at burger king are going to ruine it for everyone. The same shit applies to burping outrageously loud in public, farting next to someone all loud and offensively or just being obnoxious in a fashion that draws attention to you.


That general attitude is going hand in hand with people that publically-at their leisure-vape. Now that doesn't exactly make it illegal, does it? Well actually it does. You can harass someone or invade on their space with your outward projected self. If you are considered offensive, you can be forced to stop. You CAN use the police to force neighboors to turn down their stereo, complain about smells, make them clean their yard etc etc.

Yes it is against the law in some places to get in someones face and burp. Laws like that have all been provoked by stupid, outrageous people with no decency or desire to fit in with society. Fucking assholes. Period, end of story. In Florida, there is actually a law that says you cannot fart in public after 6pm. Yes, laws like that do exist. Corrupting public morals is defined as a nuisance and is a misdemeanor. Just like oral sex is illegal and they also have a law that having sexual relations with a porcupine is illegal-So, yeah....




The most innappropriate situations are being created by people that just don't give a fuck. They have always created these situations, vaping is just the new venue to be obnoxious and an asshat.






They are the ones that are making this a negative hobby.


And there will be long term health affects that people are unaware of now. They used to tell people that smoking cigarrettes would make you healthier.

Some countries still believe that you can treat illness with smokes.


I think we all know that marketing gets in front of science on the cutting edge of "new trendy consumables" and that is what is happening right now. Remember when k2 was the "safe" alternative to weed? Before that it was salvia/basically the same shit.

Then some people died from it and new symptoms/problems were found from the masses of people using vs the 100 that were a part of the study that deemed the product safe for consumption.


Yeah, right. Just like that. There you go.

[Ralphie]

PG is used for tissue regrowth. so in your terms yes. why dont you do some research first before making such claims.

I read about PG yesterday, and did not see anything about tissue regeneration.

Not saying it isn't true, but didn't see anything about that.

And that may be true, but if you read about it, in LARGE does(which wouldn't be possible) it is deadly to humans.

So ok, if I take PG in large quantities(again not possible according to wiki), id die, but over 30 years its ok?

Doesn't add up to me.

And again, it's a chemical your body DOESN'T need, so it's a useless argument.

If you want to do it, by all means, im not judging you, im just saying keep those eyes open my friend.

Not everything you read or are told, is gods honest truth.

I drink coffee and caffeine isn't a neccesary chemical too intake and Im aware of its consequences but I still intake it, so im not trying to be holier then thou, just spreading some ideas is all.

I use to smoke a pack a day. Marlboro lights were my smokes. When I started they were like 3.25 a pack, now they are like $12 a pack in NYC.

I quit cold turkey after 5 years of heavy smoking. Haven't smoked since. I see all these people with eciggs inhaling all these chemicals mixed together to provide flavor etc and the actual "smoke" appearence and I worry for them.

OK so maybe you won't get cancer, but how do you know how it will effect offspring?

So many things to consider, and most people don't.

In most cases, just quiting is where it's at. E-ciggs are no better then patches. You're still getting the nicotine, but its also fullfilling the habit...the comfortness....the holding, the exhaling....

that's all part of it.

Break that and you're good.

[deevergote]

What about farts, which can generally be controlled by their... owner? I expect that inhaling fart clouds isn't the best thing for you, and I don't want people farting in my general vicinity (actually, I don't really care so much, but for the sake of argument). Why is there no government regulation against farting in public? Obviously this is contrived... I can't really find any information about whether or not inhaling flatulence has health effects, but eating feces is bad for you, and farts ~= feces, so if anything, inhaling farts is bad for you. In fact, it's possible that inhaling fart gas is on the same order of "bad for you" as vaporized tobacco juice (because we've already established that we don't know the effects of second-hand vapor*). I don't see anyone running to create regulation against farting in private establishments, so by that basis, why is it any more logical to conclude we need the same for tobacco juice vapor? That, and only that, is the point I am trying to make.

A bit more toward what I think what Ryan wanted to discuss:

I have some friends that smoke cigarettes, and they tell me that when they smoke, they aren't doing it for the buzz they might have started smoking for, they do it basically because they're addicted. None of them have really told me that smoking helps them in other ways than "getting their fix," e.g. relieving stress (though they might just be unaware of this; and on the contrary, the stress that they're relieving might be self-induced by smoking, making the benefit completely moot). As well, I've heard the same from folks switching to vaporizing: that vaporizing doesn't really give them a buzz, but still just let's them "get their fix" with presumably fewer negatives. So I ask: Why do you enjoy vaporizing? Is there any social factor that drives you? How would you characterize the differences between what you get out of vaporizing vs. what you got from smoking?

* I actually doubt this to be true, given that vaporizing is marketed as an alternative to smoking, I expect there was lots of study regarding second-hand vapor vs. smoke. I'd be willing to present some research if it would matter to anyone.

I'm not saying anything about government regulations. I'm talking about being polite in public. There's a big difference!
The fact of the matter is, if people continue to do it in inappropriate places, the people they anger WILL eventually influence the creation of new restrictive laws.

And as I said, if you're inhaling nicotine, you're exhaling a portion of it as well. Those around you are breathing it in. For some, that small amount may not be bad. For others, they may not be all too pleased to have someone breathing their nicotine vapor on their 3 year old in the supermarket.

For that matter, I wouldn't want someone to fart on my 3 year old either.

Please show me where doing this is safer then smoking?

Not one of you know's EXACTLY what's in that shit.

It's just vaporized, but you're still bringing chemicals into your body.

You can go on a tirade and claim it's 100x healthier, but im not buying it.

I love how people act holier then thou when vaping, but in 20 years, when shit is shown to be worse then smoking because you build up some kind of junk in your lungs from the biproducts of it, then it will be a shame.

And in any case, no matter what you do, YOU ARE taking away from the elasticity of your lungs, so eventually they will perform less then someone who doesn't smoke.

It's "safer" because of the lack of smoke, which in itself is indeed pretty significant. It's the smoke and the chemicals released when burning cigarettes that cause the majority of the harm associated with smoking. Nicotine itself is relatively harmless, even beneficial in some cases.

From what I understand, nicotine is no more harmful to your body than Caffeine. The problem is the delivery method.

Pretty much.

So Ryan please tell me you don't really believe that inhaling a fog machine everyday for x amount of years will be healthy for you?

I believe you to be smarter then that.

FDA approved is a crock of shit anyway.

Agreed on the FDA. I've seen so many FDA approved substances recalled in my lifetime that they don't know much more than we do. FDA approval is a guideline at best. It doesn't guarantee safety (nor does a lack of FDA approval mean something is not safe.)

Being in the fog created by a fog machine and sucking the fog directly from the source into your lungs could have VERY different effects on the body. This stuff may be fine, it may not be. It will most certainly vary from brand to brand, too. One brand may be pure VG, PG, and some natural "flavor"... another may be VG, PG, and "flavor" comprised of prune essence and neomixtaloptalamalocedrinoxdocin. Next thing you know, you're coughing up a testicle.


Now if ya'll 'scuse me, I'm gonna go smoke a coffee creamer.

[Ralphie]

Ya, you're right, most of the harm in ciggs are the burning process....

in vaping, you're just replacing the burning process with a vaporizer....

like when your sick and they give you medicine through a nebulizer...

same thing....its taking the ingredients and changing the administration route from oral or IV, to inhalation....

But with vaping, how do you know that what you're inhaling is actually safe?

Because the FDA say's so?

Ok, based on 6 mos of trials?

Ill decide when they have 60 years of data to pull from.

[deevergote]

You're not getting the chemicals that the burning releases, though. You're also not getting the drying effects of the smoke itself.

I'm not saying that vaping isn't going to come with its own set of health issues... just that those known harmful things associated with smoking aren't present.