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Suspension help

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    #16
    going from AGX to Koni's is a huge step. Especially when you have stiffer spring rates.

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      #17
      Originally posted by GTRON View Post
      I'm really wanting to get some Function & Form Type 1s
      My cb9 wagon has been rolling on function and form full coilovers for about 2yrs now rides great

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        #18
        Sure, engineers know what they are doing when they TRY to design the car. But, the accounting department has the final say in how the car will actually be. Japan was in a recession during the 90's and a lot of car companies did not have good finances. This lead to many cars being produced cheaply and basically "designed" by the accountants. Not people I'd necessarily trust. Designers had their hands tied and were forced to cut corners and build cheap cars.

        Do you really want to trust accountants to know how a car's suspension should be set up?

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          #19
          I'm talking about the engineers at suspension companies that design performance parts, as opposed to the copycat artists that barely understand what they're copying.






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            #20
            Anybody ever heard of redshift? These were and probably still are the bees knees over on 8thcivic.com

            http://redshiftmotorsports.com/

            I was a child when I had my 8th gen but remember people saying how most coilovers are the same. The "32 double adjustable " isn't really double adjustable because both settings are adjusted with the same knob so changing one setting would inevitably change something else.

            I could be completely wrong because I was young and didn't know anything about "spring rates" and "dampening" and all that jazz...still don't lol. I'll try and find some old threads talking about them.

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              #21
              They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.






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                #22
                Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.
                I think they only said truhart has the front struts available separate from the whole set and are 3/4 inch shorter for better travel on aggressive springs. I haven't been to that site since around 2010 probably and back then it was koni koni koni. Check out the tech page #8 and every example in it is a koni part. http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/R...ePurchases.htm

                I thought about asking if they would do a set for a cb7 but I don't track my car, they are expensive, and I guess this is kind of pointless. I just thought it was interesting

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                  #23
                  Using a lathe to turn off the spring perches is actually really impressive! I like to buy blown WRX/Legacy struts when they come available to cut the housings and powder coat them for Koni inserts. This still restricts people to standard springs (which I'm fine with in the Subaru application I have), but this could be really cool to have done. It would also expand this practice to allow Outback and Forester springs to be used.

                  Sorry to get off topic. But yeah, Koni is always going to have my vote.
                  My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                    They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.
                    This bit of info you would probably agree with...

                    "When you think about what coilovers you want to purchase, please consider the heritage of what you are purchasing.* Koni has won several Formula 1 World Championship and as recently as just a couple years ago with McLaren and Lewis Hamilton!!!* Also, RedShift Motorsports has won SCCA National Championships (owner won once and a sponsored car won once).

                    Most "cheap" coilover systems out there are made to make a profit first and perform second, and the result is that they come from "cheap" factories....many coming from the SAME cheap factory!* The "other" suspensions look good and many people claim they are good, but the truth is that they are lesser quality than even the stock parts you take off your Honda!!

                    RedShift Suspensions use Koni shocks and are designed for best performance and are fully modular (using standard insert lengths and spring sizes so you can upgrade anytime)!* Get a real suspension from RedShift Motorsports!"

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                      #25
                      But it seems like they did a 180 when they started offering TruHart stuff, too. The money was too good to pass up, I guess.
                      My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

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                        #26
                        That bit gives me more faith... but yeah, I can't help but feel they're describing exactly what they've become by offering Truhart junk.






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                          #27
                          Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                          That bit gives me more faith... but yeah, I can't help but feel they're describing exactly what they've become by offering Truhart junk.
                          Here's some more interesting stuff. Chris from RedShift compares the truhart to koni STR.T

                          http://bestsuspension.com/06CivicTruhartShocks.htm

                          That website isn't saying truhart is the "best suspension" click home and he compares basically every popular suspension setup for the 06+ civics...

                          why is truhart junk? I'm ignorant when it comes to suspension...
                          Last edited by kseriescivic; 03-14-2017, 06:42 PM.

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                            #28
                            Truhart is a cheaply made brand, manufactured in Taiwan. To my knowledge, the company has no genuine suspension engineering experience. They are copycats. "Reverse engineering" is about as close as they get to any sort of "engineering". Over the years, I have seen a number of reports of Truhart (and D2) products displaying a disturbing range of quality and performance, indicating shoddy quality control practices in the company. This also likely indicates the use of low-grade materials and/or imprecise machinery.
                            Truhart products, like products from sister company D2, are inexpensive... and there's a reason for it.
                            Comparing Truhart shocks to Koni is like comparing a McDonald's burger to... well... actual food. McDonald's has "beef" and "cheese" on a bun, so they have all the necessary components to make a burger... but it is hardly on par with a REAL burger, made with quality meat, cheese, and bread. Like Truhart stuff, McDonald's burgers are also sold at a fraction of the price of a quality burger.

                            I also mentioned D2... which is a truly despicable company. Same manufacturer as Truhart (to my knowledge, they are the exact same company... the owner just created a new brand to cash in.) The founder of D2 is an opportunist. A businessman, no doubt... but prior to starting D2, he seems to have had absolute NO involvement in motorsports or the design and production of automotive performance parts. His past experience includes a limo service and a bubble tea shop. When D2 first emerged, they stole images of DTM race cars (predating the creation of the company by a few years). These cars displayed a logo for D2 Mannesmann, a German telecommunications company (bought out by Vodafone.) "D2 Racing", the suspension company, passed these images off as their own on the earliest versions of their website, tricking people into believing that they supplied suspension components to professionals running high-end cars in major racing events.

                            edit: having read updated information, it seems the guy I researched is only responsible for D2's US operations. The company began in the Netherlands in 1996, apparently. No proof other than their own websites to verify that, though. US operations began in 2002.

                            Sorry for the huge pics:
                            Here are D2 Racing lowering springs, bearing the D2 Racing logo.


                            Here's a D2 DTM car... from 1994.


                            I know that shadiness doesn't reflect on the quality of their parts... but it does reflect on the company's ethics (or lack thereof). Any company that would engage in such misleading advertising would very likely engage in sub-par manufacturing methods. Not something I would ever trust when it comes to parts that are responsible for my safety.

                            I have yet to meet anyone that has been able to argue effectively in favor of D2 or Truhart (or pretty much any other knockoff suspension company.) I'd honestly like to hear some intelligent, substantial defense of these companies, if it is at all possible. I honestly hate to think that the majority of the performance suspension options available for our cars are utter garbage (which is pretty much my stance right now!) Most rebuttals are along the lines of "I have them and they ride good!"






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                              #29
                              Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                              Most rebuttals are along the lines of "I have them and they ride good!"
                              DAMN RIGHT. 99&#37; of the time the answer from people is saying their crappy suspension is "good". And yes, if you had $50 sleeves and stock shocks, then yes they will seem great. But ride in a car equipped with Koni/GC (or other quality springs), KW, AMR, Fortune Auto, basically any setup with actual R&D into it, and you can easily see that the "good" suspension is only good when compared to junk. It basically follows the phrase "ignorance is bliss".


                              On the note of comparing TruHart (shocks) to Koni STR.T. Koni is a Dutch company. Their STR.T are their "budget" shocks, and are actually made in Argentina. They are also a fairly new offering. The difference between the STR.T and the tried-and-true Sport (Yellows) is huge. They aren't made for aggressive setups, and are more of a stock replacement shock with slightly stiffer damping....comparable to say KYB GR2/Excel-G, or the old Tokico HP/Blues. So sure, you can compare TruHart to Koni, but its not a "true" comparison of sport shocks. If you compared them to the Yellows, they'd literally obliterate TruHart in every category except price.

                              Also....with TruHart's shocks having a shorter stroke....its really irrelevant. Koni Yellows are not position sensitive. Meaning they perform the same at stock height, or dropped 3in. As long as they do not internally bottom out (which is why you have bump stops, to prevent that), they are completely fine. I've had friends slammed on Koni/GC and suffer no degredation in shock performance. Even if you switched to TruHarts with the shorter stroke, your bumpstops would still hit. So its really a moot point in the case for Accord suspension.
                              Last edited by Corweena; 03-15-2017, 12:09 AM.

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                                #30
                                Sweet, I learned some useful stuff today

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