Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Rilas : 1993 Accord SE

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
    haha ya. But i wouldn't put the air bag in there. I'd use the compartment for something else. A flip up screen so the passenger can play video games would be cool.
    I really want to make a lid that opens out of the top cover of the air bag. I just haven't gotten to that stage of working on the car. I still have to catch up on the 20 projects that are sitting in totes and boxes outside the car.
    MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

    Comment


      After having the car all summer and racking up 9k miles on it just driving for enjoyment, I think I've made the decision that I'm not particularly happy with the H22. I'm not saying it's a bad engine by any means. I really enjoy listening to the engine wind up to 8k, but it just doesn't have near enough torque. I have a set of Delta 262 cams I can throw into it for a bump in power. I'm most likely going to do this and tune the engine for the cams, but I still have a feeling it's not going to be enough to make me want to keep the H22 in the car.

      I've been thinking about this for a few weeks now. My F22 in my blue sedan can consistently chirp the tires on the 1-2 and sometimes on the 2-3. My coupe will chirp the tires only if I keep the RPM's up to 6.5-8k when shifting. The F22 would chirp them on just quick shifts without keeping the RPM near the red line.

      I think I'm going to drop a semi built F23A1 into the car. I'm going to replace the pistons with Nippon Racing K24Z3 pistons to bump the compression up to 11:1, as well as the displacement by bumping the bore up to 87mm. This will net me a 2306.54cc block, a true 2.3 litre. I'm also thinking about replacing the toothpick rods for some ebay ones, as they can handle more power than the stock ones. I'm not really looking for the strongest thing on the market as this will mostly be an N/A build, and if ever becomes FI it will most likely be a supercharger so it won't be seeing large amounts of boost.

      I'm going to do a bit of work to the ports on the cylinder head. Last night I was up at my other garage and grabbed the cylinder head of the F23A1 I have up there. It was already torn down, so I just had to grab the head and throw it in the Pilot. Well after looking at the head for awhile, I feel a bit better about this project. I was debating just going down the road that jdm92_accorn did and use the F23 block and throw a F22 head on it. Well after much thought and seeing the success that Chrisnick had with his F23, I decided that I'm going to attempt the whole F23A1 first, if I'm not happy with the results then I can throw a F22Ax head on it and ditch the VTEC. Honestly the intake ports are fairly impressive, even when compared with the F22Ax. They are almost perfectly straight shots from the entry to the valves. The exhaust on the other hand has ports 1 and 4 that are fairly decent. Ports 2-3 on the other hand have a large turn for the exhaust gases on at least one of the valves, while the other is a fairly straight shot. Not the most ideal of shapes but it still outflows the F22Ax head until ridiculous amount of lift on the camshafts. After much comparison last night, it solidified the fact that I want to try the F23A1 head first, before just saying screw it and dropping the VTEC and better flowing head. An interesting note is that somehow Honda seriously improved their casting process in the late 90's to early 00's. As the texture on the intake/exhaust ports is much finer than on the H22A, F22AX, and the DOHC F22B. I'm going to do some work to the ports but mostly it's just to cleanup the little bit of casting that is there. 3 ports need some work to help the flow. As there are some awful turns in the casting a little dremel work would smooth them right out and seriously help with the fluid dynamics.

      Now that the block and the cylinder head have been decided upon I need to come up with the last piece internally to help the engine breath better a decent camshaft. I'm working on getting multiple specs for this. This is where I'm going to need some help deciding on the final specs of the cam, preferably with some input from you guys. I'm not the most educated in the area of cam specs, so I would like some help on this one. I've only come up with specs on 2 cams so far, but I'm working on getting some more.

      Bad Guys Worldwide (Rocket Camshaft) 236/215 duration @ 0.050" with 11.9/10.8mm lift IN/EX, 110 Lobe Separation Angle

      These guys have a few other regrind options as well. I'm trying to get the specs on those regrinds. I'm also working on getting the specs of a Delta and Web Camshafts regrinds as well.

      I have a stock F23A intake manifold and a fully ported and polished one that I have purchased from Chrisnick who found it from someone else online. He was kind enough to pass it along to me, after inquiring about his ported F23A intake manifold. If the runners in this prove to be too short I can start working on my stock manifold.

      As far as the exhaust goes I'm doing the same thing I've done before H22A header with a F23A flange welded onto it. This is what I'm looking at hacking up.


      The other option would be to find a F23A Mugen header, they do exist but they want almost $200 to ship one here from overseas. Basically the shipping alone is going to cost more than the header itself. While I wouldn't mind a Mugen header just to say I have one, in reality the budget is probably going to end up saying the H22A header with a flange welded onto it.

      I'm looking at buying a 68mm throttle body to do some testing with. The plenum Chrisnick sent me has been matched to an OEM 62mm throttle body, but more options are always welcome, and having a second intake manifold I can make an upper portion with the larger/smaller opening. The next trip to Spokane I might just grab a 3rd upper plenum so I have more options.

      I'll get you guys some pictures of what I'm working on shortly. The intake manifold arrives today from UPS, and I got the head home last night. After a bit of cleanup on the head I'm probably going to start working on it in my spare free time. I still need to finish picking up the garage first though.

      I've started another project that isn't directly related to Lola but will affect the progress that is being made on her. I'm starting to tear down the F22A6 that is sitting at the corner of my work table (keeping me from using the table), to reinstall into old Lola. I'm just going to freshen it up and clean it up a bit. It will be getting my last F22A transmission that is sitting up in the other garage. I'll probably add this small project to my MRT, just because this is the car that actually started this thread and will follow through with it until it is no longer mine.
      Last edited by Rilas; 12-01-2017, 03:19 PM.
      MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

      Comment


        Will

        Off topic but..

        How did you end up bolting that passenger side airbag? I just picked up an SE dash for my wagon so I'm looking into putting that in come spring time.

        Did you have to re-wire the SRS unit as well? Good work with the CL interior carpet as well I wish I had thought of that when I owned my last coupe haha

        I just read that the Prelude carpet appparently works in sedans as well.
        Henry R
        Koni/Neuspeed
        1992 Accord LX R.I.P
        1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
        Legend FSM

        'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
        made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

        Comment


          F22A crankshaft into H22A? Seems like it would give you the best of both worlds as far as torque is concerned.

          YouTube Clicky!!

          Comment


            Originally posted by HenRoc View Post
            Will

            Off topic but..

            How did you end up bolting that passenger side airbag? I just picked up an SE dash for my wagon so I'm looking into putting that in come spring time.

            Did you have to re-wire the SRS unit as well? Good work with the CL interior carpet as well I wish I had thought of that when I owned my last coupe haha

            I just read that the Prelude carpet appparently works in sedans as well.
            Henry, I actually have fully removed the SRS system from the car other than the passenger air bag in the dashboard. I mean I took the time to fully remove the SRS ecu and all the wiring and sensors associated with it. I'm debating on if I should even currently mount it. It's just been sitting in the dashboard for 2 years. I know it's not the safest, especially if I get in a crash and it ejects and then ignites. I took all of the brackets that I could to bolt it down, but I haven't taken the time to figure out the mounting. My true plan is to get the cover off the air bag and then add something to stiffen it up from sagging and create a cover out of it. Then add something fun or put the fusebox up in that location.
            MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

            Comment


              Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
              F22A crankshaft into H22A? Seems like it would give you the best of both worlds as far as torque is concerned.
              You have to remember that this isn't exactly a stock H22A1 anymore. It's over bored .75mm, so I can't just go grab some new pistons for it easy. Also it has the type-s pistons in it so the compression is already bumped.

              H22A1 Block, H22A Type-S Pistons, F22Ax Crank and Rods


              This setup is already getting out of hand with 12.29:1 compression ratio. I only have access to 91 non ethanol gas on a regular basis. I forgot to add the block decking and head milling into Zealworks calc. The actual number would end up being 12.65:1. I feel like with the gas that we have access to on a regular basis that I'm already pushing the line with 11.3:1. At least elevation is knocking it down to 10.6:1 so it's working in my favor. At least until I head to Washington for the Accord/Prelude meet and get much closer to the ocean.

              H22A1 Block and Rods, H22A Type-S Pistons, F22Ax Crank


              This is just totally unrealistic now. Unless I had access to race gas all the time. Even then the pistons might even be slapping the valves at this point. I forgot to add the decking of the block and milling of the head. With those added into the picture above, I would actually be at 15.27:1.

              Unless I can find some regular H22AX pistons that are 87.75mm this is pretty much out as an option. Another thing to consider is I'm probably shaving off around 50-100 lbs in engine alone if I do the swap, so more torque, probably more whp, and less weight, not exactly sure where the downside is..... Except the $$$$.....

              I'm thinking of selling the DOHC F22B to help with the funding of the project. I'm not sure though as it's a bit of a unique engine and I could always use the already ported and polished head on the block.
              Last edited by Rilas; 12-01-2017, 08:24 PM.
              MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

              Comment


                Originally posted by Rilas View Post
                Henry, I actually have fully removed the SRS system from the car other than the passenger air bag in the dashboard. I mean I took the time to fully remove the SRS ecu and all the wiring and sensors associated with it. I'm debating on if I should even currently mount it. It's just been sitting in the dashboard for 2 years. I know it's not the safest, especially if I get in a crash and it ejects and then ignites. I took all of the brackets that I could to bolt it down, but I haven't taken the time to figure out the mounting. My true plan is to get the cover off the air bag and then add something to stiffen it up from sagging and create a cover out of it. Then add something fun or put the fusebox up in that location.
                I know that one of the mounting tabs was spot welded to the firewall from the factory so I have to go back and see if I can drill that out and take it along with the other mounting brackets. I thought about ordering the airbag delete tray from passwordjdm but I think the Integra airbag looks to be a little smaller in size.

                My plan was to keep everything in intact since Mass does safety inspections and can be pretty strict.
                Henry R
                Koni/Neuspeed
                1992 Accord LX R.I.P
                1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
                Legend FSM

                'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
                made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

                Comment


                  Originally posted by HenRoc View Post
                  I know that one of the mounting tabs was spot welded to the firewall from the factory so I have to go back and see if I can drill that out and take it along with the other mounting brackets. I thought about ordering the airbag delete tray from passwordjdm but I think the Integra airbag looks to be a little smaller in size.

                  My plan was to keep everything in intact since Mass does safety inspections and can be pretty strict.
                  I don't know if the junkyard I frequent and found the dashboard at allows drills. I'm going to have to ask, I've seen guys with electric impacts in the yard before. Otherwise I would have taken that bracket as well. One bonus to living in MT, is in old cars there are no inspections.
                  MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

                  Comment


                    i dont know how i never saw this thread before, but damn it man. you've done some badass mods. a lot of which ive been trying to figure out how to do on my coupe. i definitely want to do the cl carpet and seat belts. i also swapped the 4 door se dash in my coupe. i just left the cover only on the passenger side. i found a couple of those dashes at the junkyard a few days ago. im really considering deleting all my factory hvac stuff to make more room for my k swap stuff. i really like the progress you made on your car all this time.
                    COUPE K24

                    Comment


                      Read all that and if $ was no option then your idea would be sweet. A lot of money to do it right. But if you sell the H22 then you're almost there.

                      Comment


                        The F23 is a totally underestimated platform. The H22 in my prelude is fun, but I do miss the grunt of the F23. All those engines really need are a camshaft and a header!

                        Also, it was Elvis Lee at SBS performance who ported that manifold, it was originally going to be for his personal build. That runner length should be just about perfect for what you're shooting for, the runners on the intake I had ported on my accord were about an inch longer, and there was no torque loss anywhere (actually gained some down low).


                        '98 Prelude resto/mod thread

                        Comment


                          So no turbo action huh?
                          I'm faster then a prius

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by '93CB7Ex View Post
                            i dont know how i never saw this thread before, but damn it man. you've done some badass mods. a lot of which ive been trying to figure out how to do on my coupe. i definitely want to do the cl carpet and seat belts. i also swapped the 4 door se dash in my coupe. i just left the cover only on the passenger side. i found a couple of those dashes at the junkyard a few days ago. im really considering deleting all my factory hvac stuff to make more room for my k swap stuff. i really like the progress you made on your car all this time.
                            Thanks man! I really enjoy seeing your progress of the k swap into the CB7. Keep up the good work on your end as well.

                            Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                            Read all that and if $ was no option then your idea would be sweet. A lot of money to do it right. But if you sell the H22 then you're almost there.
                            Well I have a few things working in my favor in the money department right now. I've been cleaning the garage and in doing so I've formed a small pile of things to be recycled. 1 '04 TL transmission, 6 catalytic converters, small pile of steel and a small pile of aluminum to recycle. Should be at least a decent amount of cash, if nothing else from the catalytic converters. Also I'm working on 2 side IT projects right now. Both of those should yield a pretty decent pay check. Here at my day job I'm looking at a $2-4/hr raise. Also taxes are right around the corner. I think come early spring I should have this engine all wrapped up and ready to fire up, in the car. I'm also looking at selling the DOHC F22B, or possibly the block with an F22Ax head on it.

                            Originally posted by Chrisnick View Post
                            The F23 is a totally underestimated platform. The H22 in my prelude is fun, but I do miss the grunt of the F23. All those engines really need are a camshaft and a header!

                            Also, it was Elvis Lee at SBS performance who ported that manifold, it was originally going to be for his personal build. That runner length should be just about perfect for what you're shooting for, the runners on the intake I had ported on my accord were about an inch longer, and there was no torque loss anywhere (actually gained some down low).
                            After having the grunt of an F22 with bumped compression and a Bisi stage 2 cam that was untuned, it still put the H22 to shame at the bottom end. I can only imagine what a far better thought out and built F23 is going to be like. I'm actually pretty excited about working on this SOHC slammer, and it's going to be fun to start putting people to shame with it.

                            Originally posted by GTRON View Post
                            So no turbo action huh?
                            With this F built right, I'm going to be at the edge of traction limits anyway I have a feeling. I doubt I'm going to need a turbo, once finished. If I can push 220-240 whp and 200-220 ft/lbs of torque, tires aren't going to last very long anyway. Also this keeps the peace of mind of reliability in the car.
                            MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

                            Comment


                              Alright guys so I had a chance on Saturday to take some pictures of the F23 intake and some of the head as well.

                              F23A Intake Manifold 1


                              F23A Intake Manifold 2


                              F23A Intake Manifold 3


                              F23A Intake Manifold 4 (The plenum volume on this intake is absolutely massive. There should be no issues of air starvation on this engine.)


                              F23A Intake Manifold Runners 1


                              F23A Intake Manifold Runners 2 (Runner 1)


                              F23A Intake Manifold Runners 3 (Runner 2)


                              F23A Intake Manifold Runners 4 (Runner 3)


                              F23A Intake Manifold Runners 5 (Runner 4. This is the only runner that isn't a straight shot from the plenum to the cylinder head. While these runners are slightly smaller than the F22Ax, the air velocity traveling through them should be a bit higher.)


                              F23A Cylinder Head Intake Port


                              I'll get some more pictures of the cylinder head, just the Nikon almost refuses to focus on anything like that. I'll use one of the phones to get some pictures of the insides of the cylinder head ports. Then you can see that the exhausts are somewhat crappier to deal with. I really think that this platform is beyond under rated. If nothing else hopefully I can provide some information to the community and shed some light on something that has been hidden away for a long time. Having some options other than just throw an H22A/H23A into it and call it a day.
                              MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

                              Comment


                                Those runners look great! SBS Performance always does really good work.
                                My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X