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    #16
    The one that absolutely pisses me off the most is the collision detection system that brakes for you. The other day on the highway I was driving our '16 or '17 Rav4 for work. I was in the right lane trying to pass a semi that was just starting to pass another semi. I knew that if I got on it I could pass the semi on the left and merge over to the left lane before he could start passing the semi on the right. Well I kicked up the speed, was just starting to merge over to the right lane, granted I'm 10-15' behind the semi in the right lane as I start to merge. The collision detection system kicked on as I was halfway between the lanes, just slammed on the brakes thinking I was going to catch the corner of the trailer or something. I'm sure that the semi behind me almost shit in his pants a little. This is an automated system totally screwing with my driving because it thinks something might happen. One day some unexpected occurance is going to happen that kills someone. Because the computer didn't understand what is actually happening in the real world. In my opinion some of these automated systems make the cars less safe for drivers.
    MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

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      #17
      There aren't any true steer-by-wire cars out yet, the wheel is still physically connected to the rack. I don't know why the EPS systems damp the feel so much since it's even more of a direct connection to the rack just with a motor motor attached to help turn the wheel. I would think that a fluid would have a better effect, but it is hydraulic fluid which doesn't compress...I'll have to do some more reading on that.

      As far as electronic throttle bodies, it isn't their fault. It's the implementation of it. There is no reason why in 2017 we have any lag in throttle response unless it is intentionally put there, probably for emissions/comfort reasons. Technically they should have faster response...instead of the engine "reacting" to throttle input, it already knows how much the throttle plate is opening because the ECU is controlling that parameter. It should already have the fuel and ignition map ready to go.

      I know what is going to piss you guys off...brake-by-wire, it's going to happen just wait a little longer.

      YouTube Clicky!!

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        #18
        Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
        There aren't any true steer-by-wire cars out yet, the wheel is still physically connected to the rack. I don't know why the EPS systems damp the feel so much since it's even more of a direct connection to the rack just with a motor motor attached to help turn the wheel. I would think that a fluid would have a better effect, but it is hydraulic fluid which doesn't compress...I'll have to do some more reading on that.

        As far as electronic throttle bodies, it isn't their fault. It's the implementation of it. There is no reason why in 2017 we have any lag in throttle response unless it is intentionally put there, probably for emissions/comfort reasons. Technically they should have faster response...instead of the engine "reacting" to throttle input, it already knows how much the throttle plate is opening because the ECU is controlling that parameter. It should already have the fuel and ignition map ready to go.

        I know what is going to piss you guys off...brake-by-wire, it's going to happen just wait a little longer.
        Gotta love it. True mechanical systems being replaced by electronic ones. Seems just bad imo. Look at some of the older Russian jets. Still almost 100% mechanical, while ours are all fly by wire. Seems to me that the Russians understand, that mechanical systems are harder to effect from the outside, also that you don't have weird problems, like electronics tend to have.
        MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

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          #19
          Originally posted by Rilas View Post
          The one that absolutely pisses me off the most is the collision detection system that brakes for you. The other day on the highway I was driving our '16 or '17 Rav4 for work. I was in the right lane trying to pass a semi that was just starting to pass another semi. I knew that if I got on it I could pass the semi on the left and merge over to the left lane before he could start passing the semi on the right. Well I kicked up the speed, was just starting to merge over to the right lane, granted I'm 10-15' behind the semi in the right lane as I start to merge. The collision detection system kicked on as I was halfway between the lanes, just slammed on the brakes thinking I was going to catch the corner of the trailer or something. I'm sure that the semi behind me almost shit in his pants a little. This is an automated system totally screwing with my driving because it thinks something might happen. One day some unexpected occurance is going to happen that kills someone. Because the computer didn't understand what is actually happening in the real world. In my opinion some of these automated systems make the cars less safe for drivers.
          Exactly the problem with a computer-assisted driving system. They don't know your intentions so they do what they are told to do. Definitely very obedient systems. This is only a gateway for autonomous cars...a way to give the systems a trial before a full implementation goes underway.

          Is it possible to hack one of these radar based systems into a jammer? That could be useful, err I mean a nice experiment.

          YouTube Clicky!!

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            #20
            Unfortunately a lot of these safety systems have become standard now to the point where some states have to relocate the inspection sticker to be out of the way of the forward camera system.

            NH now requires the state inspection sticker to be on the lower left side of the vehicle whereas it used to be mounted on the center of the windshield under the mirror.

            I think we become to dependant on these sytems as a whole, I mean who needs 4G and wifi in their car?
            Henry R
            Koni/Neuspeed
            1992 Accord LX R.I.P
            1993 Accord EX OG since 'o3
            Legend FSM

            'You see we human beings are not born with prejudices, always they are made for us,
            made by someone who wants something' -1943 US War Department video

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              #21
              This is very funny to me...

              Now that I am older, I am beginning to see trends and opinions repeat themselves. I can remember so many people saying this same thing back in the late 90's early 00's. Why switch to OBD2, OBD1 is so much better, they would ask. These new cars have too much tech, what happened to the good old cars of the early 90's late 80's.

              Now, we are on to the next gen of people claiming about the same idea. Up until the last year of my life, I have spent my time driving cars that were older than 1991.

              Just gave me a chuckle hearing this same old complaint again. History does in fact repeat itself.

              Comment


                #22
                The guy is right about pretty much all of that list. Its not about driving anymore, they try to sell the idea of driving excitement with a blonde woman in leather gloves but the feeling has never been experienced by the consumers anyway.

                Its the same with cell phones, you'd guess by the advertisements that they are simply cameras, but I digress.

                Some cars like the stuff from Mopar is sort of exciting but I cant get past all of the shit technology.

                Its not the fact that its over analyzed and the damn car will go into limp mode if something silly isnt reading properly, its the fact that this is all tiny little surface mount components jam packed into modules, clusters and touch panels. You really think any of these cars will be running right in 20 years? With millions of tiny resistors, transistors, capacitors etc, that you cant service? You think they will be worth the tremendous cost to fix them if you wanted to have them repaired? What about trying to program the computers once you do get it repaired, you think you'll be able to find 2017 software for the car 20 years from now?

                They are built to fail and be replaced and the best of them suffer the same fate unfortunately.

                If the TCU in our CB7 fails we can repair it with a soldering iron at home while enjoying a sandwich... Not so with these new cars...

                My day to day job is working in depth with new cars, stripping the interiors and installing leather upholstery. I see the innards of these cars and they arent built any better than our 25 year old Hondas. A lot of dead air between the fenders and bumpers and chassis... They are built to be totaled. We do light bar installations on new Tacomas for dealerships and after seeing them with the grille and bumper off I'm convinced you'd "total" it in a 10mph accident.

                Its all plastic and cast aluminum made for insurance write ups. Plastic junk with 10 air bags and and an electric throttle.

                Don't even get me started...

                I love all eras of of cars going back to the antiques but the fun stopped around 2005. Too much tech kills it. How can you have any fun and sense of connection to the machine when your pedal input goes through a fuckin computer and 50 thousand sensors before reaching the throttle body?

                When I blast on the highway in my straight piped old ass Honda, let the engine brake while taking an off ramp and smell that blow by from the valve cover breather I feel something that you just dont get anymore from these new cars.

                They are sterile and disconnected and the ones that arent are unfortunately packed full of unserviceable and quickly obsolete tech.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by gloryaccordy View Post
                  Also shit like the starter to ground cable getting all gummed up with corrosion- I had to change it on all 3 of my CBs. You don't see problems like that anymore, and old Hondas were considered bulletproof.
                  Of course you had to replace the electrical cables in all three of your 25 year old Accords, and you'd be silly to think that a 2017 Accord in the year 2042 wouldn't need its cables replaced.
                  Last edited by AhYesCB7; 10-25-2017, 11:01 PM.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by AhYesCB7 View Post
                    ...They are sterile and disconnected and the ones that arent are unfortunately packed full of unserviceable and quickly obsolete tech.
                    Surface mount components are cake to replace and switch out. If there is a market for that kind of thing, I'd surely start up a business of it. As a matter of fact, my 14 year old E46 has tons of computers, surface mount devices, etc. and it is just fine. I wouldn't worry about those things failing. I believe people are just afraid of them failing more than their actual failure rate.

                    The only time you'd need to reprogram the computer is if you somehow erased or replaced the flash memory. The dealership has tools to do that, it's usually through CAN, therefore it can be reproduced because CAN is not a secure communication type. China has been doing it for years for coding and diagnostic things.

                    Yes, these cars are built to crumple. That's a good thing. The car can be replaced. These new cars are definitely built better than the CB, structurally of course. They are faster, more rigid/stiffer, more features, quieter...but that doesn't make them better cars.

                    I also think that because people know that the car is DBW, they are automatically biased against it. I wish I could do a double blind study on that. The electronics make little difference in engine operation from the driver's point of view. The programming from the manufacturer is what kills it. Look at what a Hondata tune does to the 8th gen Civic Si for example.

                    Because your Honda is loud, smelly, has NVH, you enjoy it? I'm with you there, it's character. Like I said earlier, there is such thing as too refined.

                    YouTube Clicky!!

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
                      There aren't any true steer-by-wire cars out yet, the wheel is still physically connected to the rack. I don't know why the EPS systems damp the feel so much since it's even more of a direct connection to the rack just with a motor motor attached to help turn the wheel. I would think that a fluid would have a better effect, but it is hydraulic fluid which doesn't compress...I'll have to do some more reading on that.

                      As far as electronic throttle bodies, it isn't their fault. It's the implementation of it. There is no reason why in 2017 we have any lag in throttle response unless it is intentionally put there, probably for emissions/comfort reasons. Technically they should have faster response...instead of the engine "reacting" to throttle input, it already knows how much the throttle plate is opening because the ECU is controlling that parameter. It should already have the fuel and ignition map ready to go.

                      I know what is going to piss you guys off...brake-by-wire, it's going to happen just wait a little longer.
                      The EPS requires a lot different tuning of the suspension than hydraulic to get the feel, but it is possible. Mazda has been doing it and Honda did it with the NSX. It is more that OEM's don't want "kickback" which basically means "feedback."

                      Brake by wire is already here. The NSX has it now.

                      And you are correct about the DBW. It is for emissions/warranty. The NSX has DBW on the NA2 and it also has no lag.
                      The OFFICIAL how to add me to your ignore list thread!

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post

                        The only time you'd need to reprogram the computer is if you somehow erased or replaced the flash memory. The dealership has tools to do that, it's usually through CAN, therefore it can be reproduced because CAN is not a secure communication type. China has been doing it for years for coding and diagnostic things.
                        When we do leather on most Nissans and other odd cars like Acuras and some US cars you have to be sure not to switch the key to the on position without the seats installed and plugged in. If you do the air bag system goes apeshit and we have to have our air bag techs come and flash the ECU with their ultra expensive software. If you take the same identical seats from one Subaru and put them into another one just like it the air bag system goes crazy because the serial numbers dont match and the ECU sees that.

                        I don't even want to imagine how much money my employer has spent to keep up with just the air bag systems in these cars.

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                          #27
                          The technology makes it easier to work on.. provided the right tools. The vehicle tells you most everything now, and you can test just about everything through a scan tool.

                          On the electric brakes thing - Volkswagen has electronic parking brakes on the Audi A class since 2008? I did a rear brake job for my co worker with an A5, and all I had to do was press a “button”(touch screen) and the caliper retracted. No need to crank the piston back. I’d say that’s easier! I say bring on the tech! Just put it into the engine & suspension, not the damn touch screen or unnaturally bright headlights.. I’m afraid technicians will become parts changers with no concept of how things really work.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by F22Chris View Post
                            The technology makes it easier to work on.. provided the right tools. The vehicle tells you most everything now, and you can test just about everything through a scan tool.

                            On the electric brakes thing - Volkswagen has electronic parking brakes on the Audi A class since 2008? I did a rear brake job for my co worker with an A5, and all I had to do was press a “button”(touch screen) and the caliper retracted. No need to crank the piston back. I’d say that’s easier! I say bring on the tech! Just put it into the engine & suspension, not the damn touch screen or unnaturally bright headlights.. I’m afraid technicians will become parts changers with no concept of how things really work.
                            "provided the right tools" is the thing, most people cannot afford the equipment to diagnose simple problems with these computers on wheels. There is super convenience from some of this stuff but it forces the end user back into the shop instead of being able to DIY it. Even our cars can be diagnosed with only what the car itself provides. There is a reason why (late model) VAG cars tend to get a lot of flak for being electrical nightmares, if you have circuitry running everything then anything is bound to fail when a fuse goes out.

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                              #29
                              What problems require a tool to diagnose that can't be diagnosed by normal means? A computer isn't going to tell you that your lug nuts are loose (yet). People can still DIY for the most part. Sensors are still sensors. Well...there is that whole programming the battery replacement thing that BMW is doing now, but besides things like that there is not much that needs a special electronic tool to be fixed.

                              YouTube Clicky!!

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by AhYesCB7 View Post
                                Of course you had to replace the electrical cables in all three of your 25 year old Accords, and you'd be silly to think that a 2017 Accord in the year 2042 wouldn't need its cables replaced.
                                I haven't owned a CB7 in nearly a decade. Those issues popped up with they were about 10-12 years old. You don't see those kinds of problems in 10-12 year old Hondas today.


                                Originally posted by lordoja
                                im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral

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