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Old 12-13-2014, 12:24 AM   #1
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Question Please Help, Compression Woes..

Copy and pasted sendin a text to a friend..

Last yrs it was 190 190 190 210 dry
When we did it tue it was 180 180 110 150

When I did it today I had the gas pedal down and I got 190 190 200 and 200.... with foot not on pedal I got 185 185 185 185

Perhaps since my battery was dyin the other day it didn't get full crank. I did each test today 4 times per cylnder.. 2 holdin gas 2 times not holding gas... and I also did the water thing.. the car was warm enough. Held it at 2500rpm sprayed mist intside throttle. And nothing really happened. I was doin it for 15mins. Didn't think there's a need for wet if I got nice #s.
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Old 12-13-2014, 12:39 AM   #2
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It's possible that there's carbon buildup on the valve or valve seat. Especially if you're not running the correct ECU for the engine, or if you've been driving with a CEL on for a long time.

Try using Seafoam.
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Old 12-13-2014, 02:51 AM   #3
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I found this...1/2 F22A1 Part Numbers: Intake: 14711PT3AOO and exhaust: 14721POJAOO. H23A1 Part Numbers: intake: 14711PT2OOO and Exhaust: 14721PT2OOO.

Aren't they the same then f22a1 and h23a1

F22a1 intake is 14711 and exh is 14721
H23a1 intkae is 14711 and exh is 14721

Doesn't it sound rite? Just the last part # is different
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:27 AM   #4
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get the car upto operating temp/hot, then come back hold the idle at about 2500 rpm and spritz water into the throttle body, itll instantly turn into steam and make the carbon deposits explode and release..no joke.



http://lmgtfy.com/?q=decarbonize+engine+with+water
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Old 12-13-2014, 04:42 AM   #5
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@erik how much water??? How would I know if the carbon will release, will smoke come outta the muffler.. I need a lil more understanding.

And can u please find out about the f22/h23 valve stems... I thought they were the same...
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Old 12-13-2014, 05:25 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
@erik how much water??? How would I know if the carbon will release, will smoke come outta the muffler.. I need a lil more understanding.

And can u please find out about the f22/h23 valve stems... I thought they were the same...
as much as you need, you dont spray in much at a time, like a spray bottle set just above stream but not a fine mist. theres some videos, its really easy though..yeah youll see steam coming out, maybe some black watery shit too..
eric the car guy, he uses a cup. id use a spray to get a better atomization which would allow the water to flow into all the intake tracts equally
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFtp_jmLF3k
"I get asked all the time about using Seafoam or other products to clean an engine. Granted, those products if used correctly do have their place but with something as simple as a cup of water you can decarbonize your engine. The thing is DON'T USE TOO MUCH! You can actually damage your engine if you put too much in so be careful. That said, on a fully warmed up engine a couple of squirts of water in the engine can break up carbon deposits in your engine. Just before I rebuilt the carburetor on the Ford I decided to perform this procedure and make a video about it. It's a cheap effective way to clean your engine. Like I said though, don't use too much or you'll be putting an engine in."



valve stem seals? I got some ebay for really cheap that were OEM for my h22 if thats what you need ill find you the link, they were like 1.50 a piece.
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Old 12-13-2014, 06:19 AM   #7
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/16-OEM-HONDA...-/321060549765

These seals will fit the following vehicles:

1993-2012 Civic 2dr coupe

1988-2000 Civic 3dr hatchback

1988-2012 Civic 4dr sedan

2002-2010 CR-V

1993-1997 Del Sol

2003-2011 Element

2007-2013 Fit

1995-2013 Odyssey

2003-2013 Pilot

1992-2001 Prelude

2006-2013 Ridgeline

2000-2009 S2000

1990-2013 Accord

2010-2013 Crosstour

1997-2003 CL

1992-2001 Integra GSR & Type R

1991-1995 Legend

2001-2013 MDX

1991-2005 NSX

2007-2013 RDX

1996-2013 RL

2002-2006 RSX & Type S

1995-2013 TL

2004-2013 TSX

1992-1994 Vigor

2010-2013 ZDX
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:38 AM   #8
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I'm scared of the water trick. I don't wanna spray 2 much and bam. New motor..


I do have a water bottle that sprays in a stream not mist.


And I meant valves cuz my buds think a valve could. b burnt which is y I lost comptessiom. I could've f/h have the same valves.. same part # look above in my post.
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Old 12-13-2014, 07:47 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
I'm scared of the water trick. I don't wanna spray 2 much and bam. New motor..


I do have a water bottle that sprays in a stream not mist.


And I meant valves cuz my buds think a valve could. b burnt which is y I lost comptessiom. I could've f/h have the same valves.. same part # look above in my post.
luckily we have side draft throttle bodies, to do any damage youd have to pour a lot in all at once which be hard sideways..but its your call bud..

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Old 12-13-2014, 09:59 AM   #10
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The first part of the part number will be the same for pretty much all Honda engines. it's the last 6 that tell you the specific model and trim that the part is for. So 14711 is the number for all intake valves and 1472 is the same for all exhaust valves.

PT3 & P0J are what you are looking for to fit an F22A1/A4/A6

F22A*
Intake valve = 14711-PT3-A00
Exhaust valve = 14721-P0J-A00

H23A1
Intake valve = 14711-PT2-000
Exhaust valve = 14721-PT2-000


Have you checked your valve adjustment? Could be a burnt valve or it could be something as simple as a tight valve that requires adjustment.
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Old 12-13-2014, 06:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
Last yr I did a compressionn check on my 2.0 sohc. The #s came back 190 190 190 200.

3 days ago I did it again cuz the car didn't want to start. It was 180 180 110 150.
Hmmm. You used to have very good compression in all cylinders, but now you have a very substantial drop in adjacent cylinders 3 and 4, while 1 and 2 have remained more or less the same. To state the obvious, cylinder 3 has lost 80 psi, 4 has lost 50 psi.

It may be coincidental that you might have issues in 3 and 4 that are affecting those two cylinders individually, but I suspect it more likely that you have a single issue that is affecting two adjacent cylinders at once, and that issue would most probably be a failed head gasket. Any other symptoms that might suggest this?

I'm not saying you definitely have a failed head gasket, but that you have the compression loss in adjacent cylinders is at least suspicious. Note that it's quite possible (even likely) to have a HG leak between adjacent cylinders that only involves cylinder gasses leaking from one cylinder to the other, and doesn't necessarily involve cylinder pressures leaking into the cooling system or crankcase, nor for oil and coolant to mix.

The HG is very narrow between adjacent cylinders due to the close proximity of the bores to each other, and between the cylinders there are no coolant or crankcase void passages. The failed HG can allow pressure from the compression and combustion strokes of cylinder A to leak into the lower pressure zone that is cylinder B (when B isn't on the compression or combustion stroke). A leak at this point may not be symmetrical, i.e. it may leak more badly when leaking from cylinder A into cylinder B than from cylinder B into cylinder A, which would account for the difference in pressure loss in each cylinder.

-------------------

For 'water cleaning', you could pour water into the plenum via the PCV hose. If you have a plastic sauce bottle then squirting water from that should be OK so long as you do it with the rpm held somewhere between about 2000 and 3000 rpm. The orifice in the sauce bottle should restrict how much water you can squirt in per second. I think I'd use two or three bottlefuls of water.

You should see some dirty steam coming from the exhaust, if not then you probably aren't generating enough steam in the cylinder to do much 'steam cleaning'. The rpm will probably 'stumble' as you introduce the water, so have one hand on the throttle body cable wheel to keep the rpm up as you squeeze in the water. It might help to 'hunt' the rpm up and down as you do this.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:03 PM   #12
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So, based on everything above, here's some stuff to do before testing compression again tomorrow.

Try 2 or 3 sprays of water either through the TB or the PCV (that's where I did my seafoaming) at a time. Check your exhaust for steam and dirty water. You won't blow your motor this way. Also, get a feeler gauge and do a valve clearance adjustment to make sure the lashes are correct. I believe the settings for an F20A are .010" for the intake valves and .012" for the exhaust valves if the heads are indeed the same as F22A heads. You want to be on the loose side and stop tightening when you feel a slight drag on the feeler gauges. http://www.denlorstools.com/home/dt1...honda_car.html
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:18 PM   #13
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If it does end up being a valve, I have a complete set that is sitting on my shelf if you need them.
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Old 12-13-2014, 11:23 PM   #14
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Thanks all. 2morow imma spray inside the intake with a spray bottle in a misty pattern not single str8 line.


How would I go about a over tightened valve thru valve adjustment???



Also will my motor fail it runs fine now... will I make it thru winter???

I have coolant in the rad its not low, all fluids r ok. Oil isn't milky.
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:32 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
How would I go about a over tightened valve thru valve adjustment???
That link I sent you in my last post takes you through the process. You need to go to an auto parts store to get a feeler gauge that has .010" and .012" thick measuring teeth.

Will your motor fail? We talked about this last night. It's not worth the risk of driving it through the winter without finding the problem and fixing it. It looks like you have a friend willing to help you out with a set of valves, which is awesome.

After you do a steam cleaning and a valve adjustment, check compression like you are going to and let us know the readings.
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Old 12-14-2014, 12:57 AM   #16
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ETCG made a somewhat recent video on this. I find that most people hear of pouring water in the intake of an engine and think it sounds absolutely insane.

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Old 12-14-2014, 07:00 PM   #17
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Taking from a text sent to a friend.

Last yrs it was 190 190 190 210 dry
When we did it last week when car wasn't starting it was 180 180 110 150
When I did it today I had the gas pedal down and I got 190 190 200 and 200.... with foot not on pedal I got 185 185 185 185

Perhaps since my battery was dyin the other day it didn't get full crank. I did each test today 4 times per cylnder.. 2 holdin gas 2 times not holding gas... and I also did the water thing.. the car was warm enough. Held it at 2500rpm sprayed mist intside throttle. And nothing really happened. I was doin it for 15mins. Then after that I did the dry test. I didn't do wet cuz my #s we good.


I was told by a good honda guy who deals with accords that the motor is healthy.
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Old 12-14-2014, 08:54 PM   #18
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Perhaps since my battery was dyin the other day it didn't get full crank.
Well, if the cranking speed was slower when you did the last two tests then it's not a big surprise that the compression numbers were less with the last two tests. There are at least two factors related to cranking speed that might affect pressure on the compression test;

The pistons rings leak, even when in good condition (which is why pressures are somewhat higher for a 'wet' compression test, even with a 'good' cylinder). The more slowly the piston rises the more leakage occurs, so the lower the compression psi.

And;

As the gas (air) is quickly compressed it gets a lot hotter, so it expands (or tries to). Of course it's being forcibly compressed, so this manifests as raised pressure rather than as greater volume. This is additional pressure rise added to the pressure increase caused by the cylinder volume decreasing and forcing X gas quantity into a smaller space. The more slowly the piston rises the more slowly the gas is compressed and the less hot it gets (the same heat is generated in the gas for the same degree of compression, but there is more time for it to be cooled by the resulting heat radiating and conducting into the metal), so there is less 'expansion' and less heat related pressure increase.

You may also get more gas expelled back out of still partially open valves (as the piston begins to ascend) when cranking more slowly compared to cranking more quickly.

Quote:
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I also did the water thing.. the car was warm enough. Held it at 2500rpm sprayed mist intside throttle. And nothing really happened. I was doin it for 15mins.
I doubt a mist from a spray bottle is going to introduce enough water to do much at all in a brief period of time. Water injection introduces water as a mist, and is known to be associated with clean combustion chambers and valves, ports etc., but this cleaning occurs over a prolonged period of water mist being injected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by F20A CB7 View Post
I was told by a good honda guy who deals with accords that the motor is healthy.
I suspect he's correct.
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Last edited by johnl; 12-14-2014 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 12-14-2014, 11:04 PM   #19
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I appreciates everyones help. Thanks u. 4 real!
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Old 12-15-2014, 01:12 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H311RA151N View Post
ETCG made a somewhat recent video on this. I find that most people hear of pouring water in the intake of an engine and think it sounds absolutely insane.

I have done it, water is a great cleaner. But don't pour it in!!!
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