Advice needed! Career change. Going back to school. (much length. many words. wow.)

[deevergote]

Thanks a lot, man!

This thread turned out to be better than I had hoped. Feedback from people that have gone in each of the directions I'm considering!

The communication thing is big. I see that expressly mentioned in EVERY job listing I look through (I've been spending the past few days pouring over as many job listings as I can, to see what skills in addition to an MBA I'm going to need to work on.) Fortunately, my previous degree in psychology has helped there a great deal!

My cost of living is super low right now (I did some smart things with my money over the past decade, at least!) My girlfriend moved in last year, and she makes decent money... so it IS an option for me to make school the top priority if necessary. I'd probably still work part time, at least... because I feel like a worthless lump if I'm not working!

The program I'm looking at through Amberton requires 36-48 credit hours (36 if I've met all the prerequisites, 48 if I have to take those extra 4 classes.) 3 credit hours per class, which means a maximum of 16 classes. Amberton has four 10 week sessions per year, which means I could take two classes per session and be finished in 2 years' time at most.
How many classes did you take per semester as a full time student?

The grant research work sounds pretty interesting. I live close to two very large schools (Rutgers and Rowan), so that might be something for me to look into as well. Working in academia has always appealed to me.

As much as I like the online-only aspect of Amberton's program, I do think I'll miss the classroom experience. I'm most likely withdrawing from my paralegal courses today, and I'll be sad that I won't be going to class on the newly renovated campus! I was looking forward to that! Still, one benefit to online classes is that there is no set time when I need to be there. As long as I complete the work in the timeframe given, I'm good. It requires self-discipline, which I sometimes lack... but I suppose I can just add that to the list of skills I hope to cultivate! With my girlfriend contributing financially to the household now, I feel that every dollar spent is shared... so if I'm not working my ass off to make good use of this affordable but still expensive education, I'm doing her a disservice.

[gloryaccordy]

Deev I would prob stay away from an MBA. Questions u should ask yourself are "what am I good at"..."what can I do with that"...."what do I WANT to do"

You have a real technical mind and can communicate very well. You seem very organized as well. I think if you can sell the skills and experience you have you should be able to move into a lot of stuff.

Looking into what you want to do is key as well... I am looking to transition as well, just have to get off my ass and take the next steps. Anyway I dont know how good you are with numbers; I imagine you are good. Im looking into data analytics... basically sifting through data to try and tell a story or make a case for something. Lot of fun and fulfulling. There's just some base skills I need to get. But yea that kind of career path search is prob what u need to do IMO. It's tough though cause you don't really know if you will like something until you are really in it.

But yea I would say marketing and polishing your SKILLS will go a lot further than an MBA. A smart employer wont care about your degrees.... they just want to know what you can DO for them.

[deevergote]

I think that has been a major stumbling block for me, honestly. I don't really know WHAT I want to do! I don't know what I want to be when I grow up.

For years, my intention was to become a marriage counselor. I believed in it. I enjoyed hearing relationship problems, and helping people work through them (not fixing them, mind you... no counselor worth a damn "fixes" things... they merely assist people in working through a problem in the healthiest, most effective manner.) Over the years, I lost interest. I didn't feel that I wanted to pursue that as a career any longer... and therefore, stalled my grad school plans (no point in getting a graduate degree in counseling if I'm not going to pursue a career in it!)

Right now, my skills are abstract... and my nearly 9 year self-employment status does little to inspire the confidence of a prospective employer. Without an education or lots of real-world experience, no company wants to hire a 35 year old former self-employed guy based on skills claimed in a resume. My options are to start low in a field and work my way up (which likely means making $25k for the next 5 years as I brown-nose for promotions... and brown-nosing is not among my skillset...) or to get more education. Right now, it seems a lot of employers are looking for an MBA. Many employers say things like "Education requirements: BS in Computer Science OR an MBA." It seems like the most versatile option open to me... and as s2cmpugh mentioned, it SHOULD make me a well-rounded business professional (well, it will give me the tools I need to become such, anyway.) As much as I hope the degree itself will be useful in obtaining a job, I can't forget that I'm actually going to be spending 2 years learning useful skills as well! I'm hoping that I'll be able to get some relevant work experience under my belt as I'm studying, too.


I actually suck with numbers. I can learn anything, as long as I can focus on it. But I've been a B-C student in all things math related since the 4th grade... aside from geometry, which I quite literally aced... because I could actually visualize things. Abstract math sucks... and I suck at it!


Right now, though, being some sort of analyst seems to appeal most to me. Ideally, I'd like to get into something along the lines of a managerial/organizational analyst or consultant... focusing more on improving operational efficiency. Many of the analyst jobs open seem to be more statistical or database oriented though. The sort of thing you're looking into. Not my ideal position, but they appear to pay quite well, and the experience would likely be useful in moving to more attractive position.

I picked up some books on SQL. For the time being, I can cram my head full of new tech knowledge. Maybe actually get a grasp on database management. If I can learn enough to be able to earn an Oracle certification, that would be a very useful addition to the resume!


In today's workforce, I'm learning that Experience>Education>Skills (skills developed without formal education or relevant experience, that is.) That doesn't apply to everything, of course. Some hobbyists can convince someone to hire them based on the skills learned via their hobby. Entrepreneurs with good sense, luck, and little fear of risk can be extremely successful with little formal education or real world experience... though that's rare.
Since I'm lacking the experience to get into a job that requires experience in order to gain experience, I figure further education would be the best way to go. It won't land me there immediately, but it'll speed things along a bit. The skills that I've acquired thus far, via school, hobbies, or natural abilities... they don't really translate to any line of work that interests me.

You're absolutely right though. You never quite know if you really want to do something until you're doing it!



To be quite honest... if I could have Bill Lumbergh's job (and car), I'd be good

[LadyG]

Well, since I have almost no formal higher edu- and thereby nothing really to contribute on that front- I am replying to say CONGRATS about the impending engagement!

I am so happy that you are happy!!!

That is all.
<3

[deevergote]

Thank you, ma'am

[gloryaccordy]

Damn Deev.... if you can get some IT certs you should totally go that route. You can also make your own projects to display your competence without actually working. And it's a field that takes any and everybody as long as you can get work done. The fact that you can talk to people is a mega bonus.

I still think you can spin your experience as something positive. You worked for yourself. Has your annual revenue grown? You can speak to that. There have to be some universal skills you picked up from your job. Are you good with Microsoft Office? What software do you use? Recruiters jump on buzzwords. If you havent already I would look at sample resumes of independent contractors. The skills required to run a business def translate to working in a business.

[deevergote]

I've hyped my skills as best I could on my resume. Microsoft Office experience, invoicing, bookkeeping... I even put database management skills on there as a result of this forum (even though most of my database management skills have involved me breaking something and running to Pandemic for help...) While I'm sure I could get SOMETHING, I'm not sure what that would get me. I feel having an MBA (while earning experience doing something "business related") will set me apart in the workplace.
The bad thing about my business is that it was in the shadows. It was hard enough to explain to people exactly what I did, let alone what skills I gained from it! I had no storefront, no registered company name, no EIN, no business license... my clients would likely deny knowing who I am if contacted. We didn't even have an official contract. Total deniability was key... and it basically meant that I was a ghost. The only thing I have is a bogus website that I created a few months ago in an attempt to provide a legitimate business presence for my mortgage company, so they would let me refinance (apparently my federal tax return documents weren't good enough!) www.deverinvestigations.com

IT certs are a good idea. I've been studying SQL over the past few days. LOTS of job listings I've seen are looking for people with SQL experience in one form or another.

That's a good idea to look at sample resumes for independent contractors. I hadn't thought of that.

[gloryaccordy]

Whatever you do best of luck man. And congrats!!!

[GeoffM]

IT certs are a good idea. I've been studying SQL over the past few days. LOTS of job listings I've seen are looking for people with SQL experience in one form or another.

If you've got the required CPU horsepower try standing up a SQL server of your own and run some scripts and dummy data on it. Very helpful in understanding more of the concepts.

[deevergote]

Yeah, that's what I'm hoping to be able to do. I've downloaded a few programs, but I'm not at the point of understanding how to use them just yet. I haven't studied since Thursday...so I need to get back into it! (getting engaged and being taken out every night by family or friends has kept me busy!)
I'm plowing through SQL For Dummies right now. So far, it's a lot of simple stuff that I don't know how to implement, a lot of confusing stuff that the author promises he'll explain later, and at the moment, it's a tutorial on using Microsoft Access (which I have, so I might as well start there!)



Also, on a funny note... I just got a thing in the mail from Rutgers trying to sell me on an MBA I'd actually consider going back to Rutgers, over the cheaper online option... but Rutgers would end up being like $45,000.

Guys on degreeinfo.com are all trying to persuade me NOT to go for the MBA, which is disheartening. s2cmpugh's experience is keeping me focused, though. That's essentially what my goal is... whereas most people that say "I'm getting an MBA!" expect to make 6 figures right off the bat. I'll be happy with $50,000, and the potential to gain experience that will make me worth more in time. Not getting my degree from a locally-recognized school might hurt me a bit, but I'm hoping not too much.

[owequitit]

Biggest issue with a Master's is to make sure it actually applies to what you want. There is a bit of the "I have a degree" halo effect, but the Master's is much more designed to make you a subject matter expert, so it will be much more applicable if it is in your field of study/practice. That is what I was alluding to earlier.

Master's are much more beneficial if they apply to your career track.

[deevergote]

True. And it pretty much IS relevant to the field(s) that I'm entering. An MBA is a Master's in business... and pretty much EVERYTHING is "business". In my area right now, there are a very wide variety of jobs looking for MBA grads... from a research position at Rutgers University, to positions in numerous pharmaceutical companies (sales and marketing, mainly), to analyst positions for a number of companies in various fields (technology, accounting, retail, consulting firms...)


To be honest, I'm not really expecting an MBA to get me much more than a Bachelor's degree in business would right off the bat. I have little experience in any particular field, so I'll likely be starting at a lower level. It will allow for more rapid advancement, however. Not to mention it is also far cheaper and faster than getting a Bachelor's in business, believe it or not!

[owequitit]

True. And it pretty much IS relevant to the field(s) that I'm entering. An MBA is a Master's in business... and pretty much EVERYTHING is "business". In my area right now, there are a very wide variety of jobs looking for MBA grads... from a research position at Rutgers University, to positions in numerous pharmaceutical companies (sales and marketing, mainly), to analyst positions for a number of companies in various fields (technology, accounting, retail, consulting firms...)


To be honest, I'm not really expecting an MBA to get me much more than a Bachelor's degree in business would right off the bat. I have little experience in any particular field, so I'll likely be starting at a lower level. It will allow for more rapid advancement, however. Not to mention it is also far cheaper and faster than getting a Bachelor's in business, believe it or not!

Yes, I am aware of the MBA... But with a generalized Master's you have to be careful. As long as it plays into your career plans and you properly utilize it, it is a good investment. It is just one of those degrees that a lot of people get and then it really doesn't do anything. I may very well go back and get an MBA as my next Master's, but I know what I want to do with it (not saying you don't).

[deevergote]

To me, it seems like the best step. It's general, but in many ways that's the point. I'm specializing in "strategic leadership", which should point me in the management and/or consulting direction that I hope to go, but it's still rather general (the various programs are all fairly similar.)
The main thing is that I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up. You've been working toward being a pilot for as long as I've known you, and if you ever go in a direction other than flying, I'm pretty sure you'd stay within the general realm of airplanes and air travel.
I've spent far too long trying to figure out what I want to do. At this point, I just want a job that will pay well, offer advancement opportunities and valuable experience, and not be all-consuming in terms of time or energy. I picked the MBA after browsing want ads and finding a plethora of jobs that sound like they may be interesting, that offer attractive pay and reasonable hours... and many had various stages of a certain position (Analyst I, Analyst II, Analyst III, for example...) with drastically increasing pay ranges... which showed opportunity for advancement.
Most of the jobs that looked attractive to me looked for a Bachelor's in business, or an MBA. I figure an MBA would qualify me for those jobs looking for a lesser business degree. At least enough to check that box, if nothing else.
Seeing as I have little directly marketable experience, and my current degrees are pretty useless in a job search, I figure an MBA would be the fastest and easiest way into a desirable job. In the meantime, I may need to take some crap office job... but hey, office experience (even at $10/hr) will be more valuable than what I have to offer now!

At the moment, I'm working with 9 years of self-employment. Worse, I have no store front, no business name (aside from my BS website, deverinvestigations.com), and my only client for years just went belly-up... so, essentially, I have NO proof aside from my word to support the claims on my resume. To a prospective employer, that may as well say I've been unemployed for 9 years. A BA in psychology and an AS in business aren't of much greater value, sadly. An MBA is marketable... and for the relatively small investment of $12,000-$15,000 and 2 years of my time, I think it's going to be worth it. At the very least, I'll learn some useful skills.

[owequitit]

To me, it seems like the best step. It's general, but in many ways that's the point. I'm specializing in "strategic leadership", which should point me in the management and/or consulting direction that I hope to go, but it's still rather general (the various programs are all fairly similar.)
The main thing is that I don't really know what I want to be when I grow up. You've been working toward being a pilot for as long as I've known you, and if you ever go in a direction other than flying, I'm pretty sure you'd stay within the general realm of airplanes and air travel.
I've spent far too long trying to figure out what I want to do. At this point, I just want a job that will pay well, offer advancement opportunities and valuable experience, and not be all-consuming in terms of time or energy. I picked the MBA after browsing want ads and finding a plethora of jobs that sound like they may be interesting, that offer attractive pay and reasonable hours... and many had various stages of a certain position (Analyst I, Analyst II, Analyst III, for example...) with drastically increasing pay ranges... which showed opportunity for advancement.
Most of the jobs that looked attractive to me looked for a Bachelor's in business, or an MBA. I figure an MBA would qualify me for those jobs looking for a lesser business degree. At least enough to check that box, if nothing else.
Seeing as I have little directly marketable experience, and my current degrees are pretty useless in a job search, I figure an MBA would be the fastest and easiest way into a desirable job. In the meantime, I may need to take some crap office job... but hey, office experience (even at $10/hr) will be more valuable than what I have to offer now!

At the moment, I'm working with 9 years of self-employment. Worse, I have no store front, no business name (aside from my BS website, deverinvestigations.com), and my only client for years just went belly-up... so, essentially, I have NO proof aside from my word to support the claims on my resume. To a prospective employer, that may as well say I've been unemployed for 9 years. A BA in psychology and an AS in business aren't of much greater value, sadly. An MBA is marketable... and for the relatively small investment of $12,000-$15,000 and 2 years of my time, I think it's going to be worth it. At the very least, I'll learn some useful skills.

True. You aren't completely in the dark with your last job either. You have tax records, which makes it legit. There might not be anybody to contact about your employment history, but that isn't the end of the world either as such things happen all the time.

I would also agree that an MBA would definitely qualify you for the jobs requiring a lesser degree. As for me, I specifically would like finance. However, one of the things I like about the Safety Master's is that it allows me to work pretty much anywhere in any industry. Of course, my thought behind that is not just a backup plan for my hobby, but also that I could theoretically start to consult with it and write my own tickets.

I don't think its necessarily a bad thing that you don't know what you want either. The downside to my position is that I pursued through hell and back only to find out it wasn't what I thought it was. Not to say its bad, but the reality is FAR different than the dream of the reality.

I kind of like Mike Rowe's outlook that you can have a completely ordinary job, make good money, have a good quality of life and be perfectly happy doing it. Chasing a specific dream is fun and rewarding, but it isn't without its price.

Overall, I encourage you to do it if you have looked into it. Given what you want to focus on now, it is probably a really good investment.