Contemplating my next car (to replace the Fit.)

[CyborgGT]

If it weren't for wanting to avoid GM products, I'd ask you about the C5 Vette or WS6 Trans Am. Cylinder count and vehicle size aside, they're fun to throw around. Your options on small-engined cars look to be covered pretty completely in here. Of those, I'd add my vote to the S2K. Reliable, economical, affordable maintenance, good power, the physical size is right, great handling.

Personally, I'd get the NA Miata. But I just like the size, and I'd turn it into a project.

[owequitit]

Yeah, that's true on all counts. In the CTS-V, with its large capacity tank (though not large enough to drive further than the Fit can...) and 14mpg local driving... it's painful. The S2000, maybe not so painful.

And you're also right about avoiding the Honda stigma if I'm leaving it stock. I do see plenty of middle-aged professionals driving bone-stock pristine S2000s (as well as Miatas and MR2s...)

I just hate the world I'm stuck in now. I despise being part of this whole "stance" BS. I've seen so many "stanced" S2000s that it's hard to separate the car itself from the idiots that drive them!

Again, driving all 3 at the very least is going to be absolutely necessary to make up my mind. They all have their appeal... and drawbacks.

I did a quick cars.com search, and got these three listings. Similar looks, and prices that seem fair based on condition and mileage for each car. I didn't really spend time worrying about specs.

Miata
S2000
MR2

I drive the ricer Honda of Ricer Honda's and I don't get any shit because it's stock. If you just enjoy it, your involvement in "the scene" will be people trying to talk to you about it.

[lucifer1]

How about a solstice/sky with an lsx

[XCRN]

Personally, I'd get the NA Miata. But I just like the size, and I'd turn it into a project.

This comes to mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYB3Fx0a8-4

[deevergote]

How about a solstice/sky with an lsx

I've already got one LSx sitting in a broken $55,000 car in my driveway!

As for the Trans Am or Vette... they're not behemoths like my CTS-V, but they're still rather ungainly for what I'm looking for. Honestly, I'm now looking for the polar opposite of the CTS-V... simple, efficient, lightweight, and small! I'm not a motorcycle guy, so a little 2 seater roadster is about as close as I can get

As far as the NA Miata goes, the size is what does it for me. The idea of a car that weighs so close to 2000lbs, after driving such heavy cars most of my life... that's what draws me to these little sports cars. To me, that IS a sports car! The MR2 has much the same draw, with the added exoticness of being mid-engined (whcih always fascinated me.) The NA Miata would be the simplest, while the MR2 is the most "different". The NC Miata offers much of the same appeal as the original, only with more luxury and weight (the power folding hard top is kinda cool... still debating on whether or not I would actually want it.) The S2000 has the most exotic engine. I watched a Top Gear episode today where Clarkson drove an AP1, and said "Other cars rev to 6000 RPM and you have to shift. In this, you still have 3000 RPM to go! 9000 RPM! And it's legal!" I will admit... a screaming 9000 RPM engine in a car that can still be refined enough to be a daily driver IS quite appealing.

It's going to be a difficult decision between those three, I think. Unless someone happens to think of something that really strikes me as better than any of them!


And Scott, you're right... it's not like I plan on interacting with the S2000 ricer crew... but sometimes just pulling up next to some stupidly stanced, beat to shit S2000 in my own would just make me shudder to even be driving the same car!
I mean, I see stuff like the picture below, and I just think "You ruined it. You took an amazing performance machine, and you ruined it. Everything that made that car great is now compromised just so you can look 'cool'."

I know that lame decal could be scraped off, proper wheels fitted, and the suspension raised... and it'd be good as new. But it's the fact that such a thing is what people look for... what people consider to be an improvement... it just sucks. I know I can probably find plenty of Miatas, and probably even a fair number of MR2s that have suffered a similar fate... but being in the Honda scene now, the S2000 is what I most often see.
It pains me to say it, since I've been a part of this for so long... but I genuinely despise what "the scene" has become. So much that it is actually affecting my desire to own a perfectly good machine!

[Losiracer2]

What about a RSX Type S? You could get the best versions 05-06 with the best K20 engine guaranteed for under 15k for a low mileage one. I still think its a pretty good looking car too.

[JunyAccord]

I have a feeling you already decided on a car

S2k

[Losiracer2]

This would be even better than an S2K

http://phoenix.craigslist.org/wvl/cto/4848991546.html

[PakaloloHonda]

Here's what ya want Deev ... ...

[gloryaccordy]

Deevs how much of a project do you want this to be

I like the AW20 MR-2s... you can swap an old Camry V6 3.3 in, have a very poor man's NSX/Cayman/Evora. Thats my dream

[owequitit]

I've already got one LSx sitting in a broken $55,000 car in my driveway!

As for the Trans Am or Vette... they're not behemoths like my CTS-V, but they're still rather ungainly for what I'm looking for. Honestly, I'm now looking for the polar opposite of the CTS-V... simple, efficient, lightweight, and small! I'm not a motorcycle guy, so a little 2 seater roadster is about as close as I can get

As far as the NA Miata goes, the size is what does it for me. The idea of a car that weighs so close to 2000lbs, after driving such heavy cars most of my life... that's what draws me to these little sports cars. To me, that IS a sports car! The MR2 has much the same draw, with the added exoticness of being mid-engined (whcih always fascinated me.) The NA Miata would be the simplest, while the MR2 is the most "different". The NC Miata offers much of the same appeal as the original, only with more luxury and weight (the power folding hard top is kinda cool... still debating on whether or not I would actually want it.) The S2000 has the most exotic engine. I watched a Top Gear episode today where Clarkson drove an AP1, and said "Other cars rev to 6000 RPM and you have to shift. In this, you still have 3000 RPM to go! 9000 RPM! And it's legal!" I will admit... a screaming 9000 RPM engine in a car that can still be refined enough to be a daily driver IS quite appealing.

It's going to be a difficult decision between those three, I think. Unless someone happens to think of something that really strikes me as better than any of them!


And Scott, you're right... it's not like I plan on interacting with the S2000 ricer crew... but sometimes just pulling up next to some stupidly stanced, beat to shit S2000 in my own would just make me shudder to even be driving the same car!
I mean, I see stuff like the picture below, and I just think "You ruined it. You took an amazing performance machine, and you ruined it. Everything that made that car great is now compromised just so you can look 'cool'."

I know that lame decal could be scraped off, proper wheels fitted, and the suspension raised... and it'd be good as new. But it's the fact that such a thing is what people look for... what people consider to be an improvement... it just sucks. I know I can probably find plenty of Miatas, and probably even a fair number of MR2s that have suffered a similar fate... but being in the Honda scene now, the S2000 is what I most often see.
It pains me to say it, since I've been a part of this for so long... but I genuinely despise what "the scene" has become. So much that it is actually affecting my desire to own a perfectly good machine!

Haha. There is the black/white combo you like so much.

How many S2K's have you honestly seen like that? And I agree, stance is stupid. Be an agent of change.

Sad too, because other than that, that is a super good condish S2K! So tragic!

[deevergote]

What about a RSX Type S? You could get the best versions 05-06 with the best K20 engine guaranteed for under 15k for a low mileage one. I still think its a pretty good looking car too.

I really want an open top roadster (with an available hard top, for days when I actually want something more than canvas over my head!) The RSX always struck me as a girly car as well. I'd probably rather shell out the dough for a bone-stock ITR than bother with an RSX! owequitit's opinion of the RSX when he was test driving (and ultimately decided on the Civic Si) still sticks in my mind, too. I recall him saying that visibility was dismal. Granted, I doubt it's much better in the roadsters I want!

I have a feeling you already decided on a car

S2k

All three, S2k, Miata, and MR2, are all very close... I think I'm going to have to get behind the wheel of each to really decide!

This would be even better than an S2K

I had actually thought of that! As well as their 33 Hot Rod. I love FFR. Their kits are so well made that I've seen more than one magazine article praise them as being almost as refined as a legitimate factory-built vehicle!
The 818 is cool as hell, and if I had the space to build one, I'd probably have already started. The lack of a roof (and my lack of a garage!) are what keep me away. If they put a roof on that thing, it would likely be in the running!

Here's what ya want Deev ... ...

I already have this in the driveway:

2003 Cooper S, 6 speed, fully loaded (nav, fogs, auxiliary fogs, 2 piece BBS wheels... everything.)

Deevs how much of a project do you want this to be

I like the AW20 MR-2s... you can swap an old Camry V6 3.3 in, have a very poor man's NSX/Cayman/Evora. Thats my dream

I don't want it to be a project at all, aside from perhaps the NA Miata (which would be a restoration project, rather than a modification project.) Once I'm out of the driving job, I intend for whatever I get to be sharing daily driver duty with the CTS-V, and with the CB7 once I get that back on the road (assuming I DO get that back on the road... the need for a FWD car in bad weather might accelerate that process one way or another!)

I know whatever I get will likely need a fair amount of fixing up, even if it was maintained very well. I'm looking into cars that are a minimum of 7 years old in most cases. Anything older than 4-5 years is always going to need some attention to get it in top shape.

[gloryaccordy]

Im not so hot on the AP1s... buddy had one.... nice car, very high quality. But the engine character is a very acquired taste, and quite frankly the car just doesn't feel very fast. NC Miata is just a lil too heavy. I think the MR-S is the best choice of your three. Lightest, best chassis, and the low horsepower problem is easy to fix, either with a 2ZZ swap, supercharger or turbo kit.

[deevergote]

Im not so hot on the AP1s... buddy had one.... nice car, very high quality. But the engine character is a very acquired taste, and quite frankly the car just doesn't feel very fast. NC Miata is just a lil too heavy. I think the MR-S is the best choice of your three. Lightest, best chassis, and the low horsepower problem is easy to fix, either with a 2ZZ swap, supercharger or turbo kit.

That's my thinking on the MR2. I don't mind the low power all that much, since the low seating position, lightweight chassis, open top, and mid-engine layout will give it plenty of sportiness, I feel. I've read a fair amount of complaints regarding the suspension and transmission gearing, but those are things that I could change if I really wanted (again, I'd rather not get something that HAS to be modified!)

The NC Miata and S2000 are in the same weight class, IMO... both are relatively heavy, especially if I go with the NC with a power hardtop (which is what I'm leaning towards.) The NC makes a good 70hp less than the S2000, but 170hp is still perfectly respectable. 1/4 mile time is in the mid-15s, putting it fairly close to my CB7. Not fast by any means, but I'm not looking for a race car. I get all the thrust I need from the CTS-V!

I'm going to have to test drive both an AP1 and an AP2, especially if what Scott says is true about them having drastically different characteristics. I've been in an AP1 once, back when Accord R33 got his race car. I was actually impressed by how powerful it felt when he got on it. Possibly because I was expecting that 2.0L to be a torqueless wonder!
The AP1 is attractive to me because the redline is 1000 RPM higher than the AP2. The idea of revving to 9,000 just sounds so cool! I know that's like the kids in the CB7 crowd that want the F20B because it revs higher than the H22A (and is obviously better... ) I could be convincing myself of that as well, simply because I can probably find an AP1 in better condition for my target price. An AP2 is likely going to be in worse condition for what I'm looking to spend.

I'm going for something that feels "zippy" and easily thrown around. Something that I'm not afraid of breaking if I push it a bit. In that way, the Miata might be my best choice. The MR2 has a cheap engine and transmission, but they're most certainly going to be a pain in the ass to get to! The Miata remains the simplest vehicle considered at the moment.




I do wish I had a garage, and that the FFR 818 had an available roof... That car is $15,000 on the nose, built right!

[h22sparkle]

Deev I know those other cars you mentioned are too small for you. You gotta have leg-room to relax and at the same time go with a bit of comfort go for the s2k or 8thgen si its better to have a car that's affordable easy to maintain available parts you should be straight.