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**illinois_erik** · 11-11-2013, 08:14 PM

yes on cold starts the starter will pull way more amps then when the engine is warm. I googled a bit and some say up to 350amps. so yes the CC rating is what the battery can provide for 30 seconds at 0 degrees. the thread im looking at the person has the same setup 2g ~15 foot run, except theyre using 250amp fuses from the battery. if it blows that you might need to do the battery/starter run in 0g.

**Raf99** · 11-11-2013, 08:24 PM

I've even asked a professional mechanic I know, and two other professional stereo installation stores. They say the pull shouldn't be more than 100amps.

But ahh ya. WTF is the point in CCS/amp rating of a battery otherwise....

**sonikaccord** · 11-11-2013, 08:42 PM

The 12v battery can deliver scary amounts of current. 100 amps is way to small imo. You should run a dedicated ANL fuse, fused correctly for your WIRE SIZE, NOT HOW MUCH CURRENT YOU CAN PULL! Unless you like to burn your car down...

**Raf99** · 11-11-2013, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post

The 12v battery can deliver scary amounts of current. 100 amps is way to small imo. You should run a dedicated ANL fuse, fused correctly for your WIRE SIZE, NOT HOW MUCH CURRENT YOU CAN PULL! Unless you like to burn your car down...

As stated above wire size is 2AWG.

Does anyone else have a answer for the max amperage pull on cold start for this situation?

**lucifer1** · 11-11-2013, 11:50 PM

You would have to measure the amperage. An old starter with all those splices on a long cable is unique to your car.

100 is way too small as you are finding out. While it may not always blow, being too small creates a high resistance and a voltage drop. The fuse is to protect the car not the starter, I would use somewhere in range of a 175-250 amp fuse.

I would also run starter by itself and not off a distribution block. You can get a battery terminal with mini anl fuse built into it to eliminate an inline fuse. You do not want any unnecessary splices in a high current wire. The more splices, the the more resistance, lower voltage, and higher the amperage.

**Raf99** · 11-12-2013, 05:12 AM

Originally posted by lucifer1 View Post

You would have to measure the amperage. An old starter with all those splices on a long cable is unique to your car.

100 is way too small as you are finding out. While it may not always blow, being too small creates a high resistance and a voltage drop. The fuse is to protect the car not the starter, I would use somewhere in range of a 175-250 amp fuse.

I would also run starter by itself and not off a distribution block. You can get a battery terminal with mini anl fuse built into it to eliminate an inline fuse. You do not want any unnecessary splices in a high current wire. The more splices, the the more resistance, lower voltage, and higher the amperage.

You may have figured out that I'm running the fuse box and the ALT from the starter connection. Besides these two items its a straight run from the battery to the starter. I guess by splices you mean the ALT and fuse box connected to the starter adding to the pull on the battery? I just didn't see it being anymore of a pull than if you had a distribution block in the engine bay (for ALT and fuse box) as it all draws on the same 2AWG line back to the battery in the trunk.

I don't have a powerful enough multimeter to measure the amp draw when starting the car. But I think I"m going to install a 150AMP breaker where I have the in-line fuse currently (off the battery).

-----------------------------------------
When I do use my distribution block in the trunk its usually:
battery --> dist. block -- (3x outputs)-->

--> (inline fuse) --> starter (has ALT and fuse box connection)
--> amp
--> amp

I could use one of these on the battery post rather than a distribution block but I don't think it would make a difference.

When my full setup was in the car it looked like this. As mentioned, no issues with a 100amp fuse during non-cold starts. But somehow I feel like I need to re-think this whole setup.

**sonikaccord** · 11-12-2013, 10:48 AM

Splices are anything that could add contact resistance to the connection, which would increase current draw. I think the OEM fuse is a slow blow type so those couple of seconds of high amperage pulls don't blow it.

Correct, as long as the wire is the same size, it doesn't matter where the dist. block is.

150 amp fuse should do it

**lucifer1** · 11-12-2013, 12:01 PM

The fuse holder and distribution block are splice points. You are adding 4 extra points of unneeded resistance.

Run a separate wire to the distribution block for your amps and use one of thesehttp://www.amazon.com/StreetWires-BC.../dp/B000JC5G44 on the battery to fuse the starter. This lets you have 2 points of resistance instead of 6.

**cp[mike]** · 11-12-2013, 12:17 PM

From what I follow, your normal hookups are correct, and the distribution blocks are fine for splitting off to additional amps. Your problem is that the 100amp fuse is not enough, the starter can pull up to 200+ on cold starts (trust me, i have measured). I was having the problems as you - you may want to consider a 250amp "breaker" just as an overall safety precaution, but be aware, I found that the cheap connection points internally of the switch increase resistance significantly, so I ended up going without it. Also, one tidbit to note, is that every starter is different, and some draw more than others (weird)

my suggestion would be to run the 2ga wire straight from the battery, to the starter... stock wiring has no fuse there either. Then using the starter terminal as a splitting point, tap off and also run a 4ga wire from the starter up to the fusebox. the fusebox contains an 80amp fuse for powering and protecting the rest of the car.

then connect the alternator to the fusebox, like normal. it contains a 50amp charging fuse. Any amps can be connected directly to the battery in the trunk with their own fuses. I usually use battery terminals with wing-nuts on them so I can add an amp via a ring terminals.

then for grounds, make sure the battery itself is solidly grounded to the chassis (be aware that this almost needs to be as big of a wire as the main power wire - 2ga - since this acts as the return plumbing). then also make sure the transmission is grounded to the chassis, then you should be good.

so overall: when the starter needs juice, it has a straight pull from the battery. once the engine is running, the wiring is all still properly sized to handle alternator charging juice, and everything is fused. with no extra terminal blocks and such.

lastly, just for info: I ended up going with 0ga wire for my runs, properly fully crimped, and soldered all of my ring terminals. never had a problem since.

amazing cable!!! super flexy, easy to run -> http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMa...0Fleks%20Kable

how to solder heavy gauge copper terminals -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EI-ttFb7uM

**Raf99** · 11-12-2013, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by lucifer1 View Post

The fuse holder and distribution block are splice points. You are adding 4 extra points of unneeded resistance.

Run a separate wire to the distribution block for your amps and use one of thesehttp://www.amazon.com/StreetWires-BC.../dp/B000JC5G44 on the battery to fuse the starter. This lets you have 2 points of resistance instead of 6.

I think you are saying put a dual-output battery post thing and run one wire to the starter with in-line fuse and the other wire to my distribution block for my stereo amps. That I understand since the battery can put out X amount of amps and the car stereo amps won't be "stealing" from the 2AWG wire coming off the battery.

Originally posted by cp[mike] View Post

From what I follow, your normal hookups are correct, and the distribution blocks are fine for splitting off to additional amps. Your problem is that the 100amp fuse is not enough, the starter can pull up to 200+ on cold starts (trust me, i have measured). I was having the problems as you - you may want to consider a 250amp "breaker" just as an overall safety precaution, but be aware, I found that the cheap connection points internally of the switch increase resistance significantly, so I ended up going without it. Also, one tidbit to note, is that every starter is different, and some draw more than others (weird)

my suggestion would be to run the 2ga wire straight from the battery, to the starter... stock wiring has no fuse there either. Then using the starter terminal as a splitting point, tap off and also run a 4ga wire from the starter up to the fusebox. the fusebox contains an 80amp fuse for powering and protecting the rest of the car.

then connect the alternator to the fusebox, like normal. it contains a 50amp charging fuse. Any amps can be connected directly to the battery in the trunk with their own fuses. I usually use battery terminals with wing-nuts on them so I can add an amp via a ring terminals.

then for grounds, make sure the battery itself is solidly grounded to the chassis (be aware that this almost needs to be as big of a wire as the main power wire - 2ga - since this acts as the return plumbing). then also make sure the transmission is grounded to the chassis, then you should be good.

so overall: when the starter needs juice, it has a straight pull from the battery. once the engine is running, the wiring is all still properly sized to handle alternator charging juice, and everything is fused. with no extra terminal blocks and such.

lastly, just for info: I ended up going with 0ga wire for my runs, properly fully crimped, and soldered all of my ring terminals. never had a problem since.

amazing cable!!! super flexy, easy to run -> http://www.knukonceptz.com/productMa...0Fleks%20Kable

how to solder heavy gauge copper terminals -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EI-ttFb7uM

So I have everything you just mentioned except:

- the ALT is not going to the fuse box, its run from the starter connection with its own in-line fuse. I may run that to the fuse box if the "charging fuse" makes a difference.
- I don't have a 150+amp breaker off the battery
- As stated above I should run separate lines off the battery for the starter feed and the stereo amps feed/distribution block

Everything else is correct including grounds, wire, techniques. I crimped my ends on and soldered them.

And the 2AWG wire I used was the orange heavy duty welder 2AWG wire:

Now would anyone agree that I still need to run the ALT to the fuse box if I'm using a 80amp inline fuse between the starter and ALT and I'm using a 150+amp breaker off the battery?

**sonikaccord** · 11-12-2013, 08:21 PM

Your current setup is fine. (pun intended)
Up your 100 amp fuse to a 200 which is the max recommended for 2 AWG. If it still doesn't work then you should consider running a dedicated line.
This is the simplest, cheapest, fastest and safest way imo.

**Raf99** · 11-12-2013, 08:43 PM

Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post

Your current setup is fine. (pun intended)
Up your 100 amp fuse to a 200 which is the max recommended for 2 AWG. If it still doesn't work then you should consider running a dedicated line.
This is the simplest, cheapest, fastest and safest way imo.

Thanks for your help. (i'm not looking for simple, cheap, or fast).

**sonikaccord** · 11-12-2013, 08:50 PM

It may not be what you're looking for, but it won't hurt to try

Good luck

**Raf99** · 11-12-2013, 09:09 PM

Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post

It may not be what you're looking for, but it won't hurt to try

Good luck

Ya no worries. My only worry on this topic is that every professional I have spoken to about this disagrees with all these suggestions

But the fact that batteries have CCS proves them wrong as well.

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