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Old 11-08-2012, 02:38 AM   #61
CyborgGT
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^230 with just mild cams and pistons, and it sounds like you're saying that's a low number?

Over the past couple weeks I have been realizing that I could easily surpass my comfort level with this project and be in way over my head doing the assembly myself. It won't be as fun in the meantime not being able to build as I get parts, but it's looking like that part will be best left to the professionals.
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Old 11-08-2012, 11:11 AM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CyborgGT View Post
^230 with just mild cams and pistons, and it sounds like you're saying that's a low number?

Over the past couple weeks I have been realizing that I could easily surpass my comfort level with this project and be in way over my head doing the assembly myself. It won't be as fun in the meantime not being able to build as I get parts, but it's looking like that part will be best left to the professionals.
If you are willing to drop the coin on the appropriate measuring tools, you can do it.

Dont get scared of this. Its not rocket science, its just elaborate.


Measuring is the hard part. Most of the measuring is just addition and subtraction using small numbers and double checking everything.


You have to check;


-Crankshaft end play
-Clearance between crankshaft and mains
-Clearance between crankshaft and rods
-Piston to cylinder wall clearance

And that is pretty much it for the rotational assembly assuming you can trust the machine shop did everything correctly.

I double check everything that comes home from the machine shop and I feel that is a good idea. Some people don't, and find out the hard way that something is .15 off.

Assembly really isnt that difficult as long as you follow instructions well and take the time to do it right.

There is an investment involved in the tools required to do it correctly. Its up to you if you want to invest in tools and learning to do this yourself or just pay someone to do it. I would do it myself if i was you. Down the road it'll pay off 10 fold if you continue to play with cars/motors and such.

If this is your first build, I can almost promise you'll do it again. Its too much fun building engines to stop after you know how to do it. I bet you are already excited and wanting to touch stuff and bolt shit together.


The finished product is very empowering, especially when you can honestly claim "built not bought"
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 11-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by CyborgGT View Post
^230 with just mild cams and pistons, and it sounds like you're saying that's a low number?

Over the past couple weeks I have been realizing that I could easily surpass my comfort level with this project and be in way over my head doing the assembly myself. It won't be as fun in the meantime not being able to build as I get parts, but it's looking like that part will be best left to the professionals.
My post was based on you bad low cam power post.

Really building an engine isnt hard. Its time consuming and can be a bit expensive up front as far as tools go. I was a tech for awhile so i have a pretty good assortment of tools.

You can slap it together and hope it works out, buy the tools and do a lot of research, or leave it to a honda professional
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Old 11-09-2012, 12:04 AM   #64
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As much as I've never liked the idea of someone else doing the work on my cars (I've yet to visit a shop for anything but exhaust welding and to have some bearings pressed, only because I lack the proper tools), it's not like I don't have a very long time to think on all of this and keep learning. I do find the learning part fun when it comes to engines, and have always been a bit of a nerd for hands-on and slow, detail-oriented work. I suppose the nerves are to be expected doing something this big for the first time. And, hey, my original engine swap fired up and ran smooth on my first attempt after I had pretty much memorized all the write-ups...

This project is getting me pretty excited, toycar, yes.
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Old 11-17-2012, 03:38 AM   #65
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- valve spring compressor (have one, doesn't fit the tight head; getting EuroExport's specialty Honda tool)
- feeler gauges
- dial indicator
- Plastigage
- micrometers
- cylinder bore gauge
- dial bore gauge
- precision straight edge (just to confirm the shop's work for myself)
- piston ring compressor/expander

How am I looking? I read through my main CB7 Helm book. Except for the plastigauge I've never used, it's just as I remember from school; I'm pretty sure the micrometers came in sets of four or something like that for the different jobs.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:18 AM   #66
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Ditch the plastigauge. It's inaccurate and the micrometers and dial bore indicators will do a much better job anyway of getting you spot on.
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Old 11-17-2012, 11:23 AM   #67
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Ditch the plastigauge. It's inaccurate and the micrometers and dial bore indicators will do a much better job anyway of getting you spot on.
^^This.
As said they're way more accurate ways a plasti gauge is a decent base it's not precise, but it is however better than guessing.
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Old 11-18-2012, 01:00 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by SOHC-FTW View Post
^^This.
As said they're way more accurate ways a plasti gauge is a decent base it's not precise, but it is however better than guessing.
Not to mention all surfaces must be clean and free of oils so there's nothing to throw off the plasti-guage.

Its not a bad tool just post dont use it right. Micrometers are much better.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:44 AM   #69
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I'm going to keep up with this now that I found it.

I loved my mahle 11:5:1 co, h22 i had built, it needed 93 oct, otherwise it just pulled timing from knock.


One important thing i have yet to see in here, if I ever build another one, the first thing I would do and recomend. Do balance shaft delete! You gain better oil preasure and don't have to worry about it snapping ruining your whole engine. Yeah car body loops a tad bit at idle, but thats it.
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Old 01-25-2013, 07:53 AM   #70
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the larger exhaust tends to actualy quiet a vehicle down with louder low notes, instead of highs.

It will affect AFR, but in a good way, higher compression vehicles also tend to get better gas miliage due to more power being produced in the quenched area of combustion.
It's a trick mercadese and others have used for a long time, the downside, under full throttle 91-93 oct is required for full performance. although 87 is fins for idle and cruise.
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Old 01-26-2013, 08:48 AM   #71
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I WANNa see this bad boy finished sounds like my f20 b build
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:07 AM   #72
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I WANNa see this bad boy finished sounds like my f20 b build
...that we'll never see pictures of. At least not any pictures you took.

Qucik! Everyone watermark your F20B engine pictures! Send out the word!
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Old 01-27-2013, 11:16 PM   #73
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I keep bouncing back and forth between wanting a coupe and a wagon to put this in (sporty looks are always cool, but I'm also a stickler for practicality), and right now I'm in that wagon state of mind. Because of this, I'm thinking about getting a Bisi header (w/welded slip joints) instead of the HyTech simply for the looks. They're similar enough in gains that I'm really not all that concerned about getting every last pony out if I can have something so insane looking... and it would be all the more bad-ass cruising hoodless in a wagon, lol! But I don't know for sure. Lately I've been trying to research header design and how to tell, by looking at one, where it's likely to put the power. I'm wanting something more useful for autocross/road racing, and am trying to avoid an all-out drag header. The controversy regarding Bisimoto is too disgusting for me to find anything I'd be inclined to trust about their products, so searching for those, specifically, is out of the question.
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Old 01-28-2013, 09:24 AM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
If you are willing to drop the coin on the appropriate measuring tools, you can do it.

Dont get scared of this. Its not rocket science, its just elaborate.


Measuring is the hard part. Most of the measuring is just addition and subtraction using small numbers and double checking everything.


You have to check;


-Crankshaft end play
-Clearance between crankshaft and mains
-Clearance between crankshaft and rods
-Piston to cylinder wall clearance

And that is pretty much it for the rotational assembly assuming you can trust the machine shop did everything correctly.

I double check everything that comes home from the machine shop and I feel that is a good idea. Some people don't, and find out the hard way that something is .15 off.

Assembly really isnt that difficult as long as you follow instructions well and take the time to do it right.

There is an investment involved in the tools required to do it correctly. Its up to you if you want to invest in tools and learning to do this yourself or just pay someone to do it. I would do it myself if i was you. Down the road it'll pay off 10 fold if you continue to play with cars/motors and such.

If this is your first build, I can almost promise you'll do it again. Its too much fun building engines to stop after you know how to do it. I bet you are already excited and wanting to touch stuff and bolt shit together.


The finished product is very empowering, especially when you can honestly claim "built not bought"
Why buy tools for a job he will do once and possibly do wrong, whereas he can pay professionals (probably less) to do the job right once?

As far as the chassis to put this in... I would go w/a 4th gen Lude or Civic
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im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral
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Old 01-29-2013, 01:40 AM   #75
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^ You're on the wrong site, bud. I like both cars, but... no. The whole reason I kept the CB and didn't swap it for a Prelude (like I came extremely close to doing a couple times, even going so far as to talking in earnest to a seller on one occasion) was because I like a car with useable back seats. As for Civics, I just don't like them nearly as much as I love CBs.

But I probably will end up having the shop take care of the crank and rod bearings. It's just too easy to have them knock it out while they're already sleeving the cylinders and machining everything.
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:44 AM   #76
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I like CBs man I've had 3. Plus you have an RSX as your DD and the family sedan as your project
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im with you on that one bro! aint nothing beat free food and drinks any day of the week, even if its at a funeral
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:07 AM   #77
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Uh... what's your point?






My logic behind a four-seater project is that I'll never need to get rid of it. You always hear of guys having to get rid of their project cars because of the expense of starting a family, or buying their first real home. I can safely and comfortably haul a family in my four-seater, and with a well-built engine reliability isn't any more of a problem than any other car on the road. If I'm tight on income while I have both the Accord and whatever sports car I also own at the time, I'll simply sell the sports car and having nothing to be sad about
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:50 AM   #78
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OK I guess that makes sense

Though I would prob want a more extreme sports car.
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Old 01-30-2013, 10:40 AM   #79
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Umm....I'm pretty sure the title says "CyborgGT's Build"?
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:23 PM   #80
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Why buy tools for a job he will do once and possibly do wrong, whereas he can pay professionals (probably less) to do the job right once?

As far as the chassis to put this in... I would go w/a 4th gen Lude or Civic
You act like it some impossible, super duper difficult thing to measure and do basic addition and subtraction.



With the appropriate tools in hand, and the knowledge to assemble it correctly, it really isnt that big of a deal. Im going to go out on a limb and say that you have never paid a machine shop the 500-800 they want in labor alone- JUST to assemble the rotational assembly. Or, if you have, you definetly haven't done it yourself and realized that the 200-300 in tools was worth the investment because it really is not that hard at all. Its time consuming and elaborate.


It is not rocket science. You don't even have to use multiplication or division.




Measure diameter of rod journal. Measure crank journal for rod location. Subtract crank journal size from from rod journal size.


Take that number, and subtract the desired clearance. The remaining number, order bearings in that size within your desired tolerance. If you need to alter bearings, count how many strokes with sand paper and do it carefully on each side.



Thats all you do to get rod's in correctly. Assuming they are balanced out of the box, and correctly assembled with wrist pin and piston. Machine shop should always be used for seating piston on rods. (my opinion)



Measure block journal for main bearings. Measure crank journal diameter. Subtract crank journal from block journal size. Take that number, subtract desired clearance.


Sound familiar? Ok, so whats next then?



Did I just teach you how to install a crank and rod combo?



Basically, I sure did just drop the basics on you. Sound difficult? Obviously you want to repeat this process for every journal/bearing, they will all be a tiny bit different.

Now that its all assembled, check end play. Check resistance on the crank. If it requires more than 30 ft/lbs of torque to turn crank, start over with looser clearances. If your endplay is out of spec, your assembly isn't tight enough.


Thats the jyst of it.



Checking piston to wall clearance is cake. Google that shit.







People should stop being so intimidated by putting together a rotational assembly. It is time consuming, it is not that hard.

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Umm....I'm pretty sure the title says "CyborgGT's Build"?
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It's just too easy to have them knock it out while they're already sleeving the cylinders and machining everything.
Nothing wrong with that. I personally would rather do it myself. Sounds like you'll be looking at something close to $2000-$2,500 in machine shop charges. They'll want $500-$800 in labor alone to assemble everything. Most of the time anyways.


Maybe they will work a deal out with you.


Either way, don't psyche yourself out of doing it, in lieu of fear. It really isnt that hard my friend.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

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