Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

ANY BUYING/SELLING IN THIS FORUM WILL RESULT IN AN INSTANT BAN!

Read the rules: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43956

Myself, and the other mods have been very nice and lenient with the rules. We have been deleting threads, and giving out warnings. Some members didn't get the clue and re-posted over and over... Now ANY member buying or selling in this section will be banned... No IF's AND's or BUT's.
2 of 2 < >

Beginner Forum Rules - EVERYBODY read! (old and new members alike!)

Beginners start here. Once you have 30 worthwhile posts (off topic doesn't count) you may post outside of the Beginner forums. Any "whoring" (posting simply to raise your post count) will return your count to 0, or result in a ban.

These are the rules. Read them. Live by them.

1) Absolutely NO flaming! "Flaming" is an outright attack on a member. ALL questions are encouraged to be asked here, no matter how basic. Members with over 30 posts will be subject to a ONE WEEK ban if caught flaming in this forum (and yes, moderators can read deleted posts). Members with under 30 posts will be subject to a ONE DAY ban.

2) Use appropriate language. Racial or sexual slurs will not be tolerated. A ban will be issued at the discretion of the cb7tuner.com staff.

3) No items may be sold in the Beginner forums. Any "for sale" threads will be deleted.

4) Temporarily banned members will be PERMANTLY banned if they are found posting on another account.

The rules can and will be added to. Any updates will be marked in the title.

The rules for the overall forum can be found here:
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=144
Read them. You will be expected to follow them.
See more
See less

H22 Engine Swap Questions

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    H22 Engine Swap Questions

    Good day! This is my first post so please bear with me!

    I'm interested in installing an H22 into my '92 CB7. My budget is about $1500 - $2000. I plan to buy a longblock and build the engine on an engine stand while I daily drive the CB. I don't plan on boosting the engine, I prefer it NA for reliability concerns.

    So, one of my questions: I would like to add any performance modifications while the engine is out but I don't want to spend crazy money. I'd like to stay under $1000 for performance mods after the engine has been purchased. What mods will give me an increase in HP that I can fit within my 1K budget that DON'T REQUIRE A TUNE.. if any exist. (I have a primary question about a tune below, but I would like to weigh my options. I'm intentionally being inconsistent lol)

    Next question: Now, I am aware that there are multiple variations of this engine that are characterized by the color of the valve cover. What are the comparison numbers for HP and TQ so I ensure that I purchase the one I actually want. I'd like the one that produces 200hp.

    Next question: I would like to completely refresh the engine with new OEM parts. What parts should I replace? I only have all gaskets, rubber, and lines on my list.

    Almost there: Transmissions.. So many to choose from.. What transmissions are compatible and can be fitted to the H22 without any fabrication? And if you answer this question, can you please include direct differences in the trannys behavior compared to other compatible trannys? That would help me choose the correct one that fits the needs I want to fulfill.

    Final question: Should I get the engine tuned with it being stock? I would think if I was to add some performance mods, a experienced tuner should be able to bite on that and provide some sort of increase? (The usual CAI, Headers, Exhaust ordeal)

    If there is anything I missed please feel free to comment. Thank you!!
    Last edited by BackyardCB; 11-24-2017, 06:13 PM.

    #2
    To really do things right, your budget is fairly limited. Is $2000 your limit for the engine AND modifications, or are you looking at $2000 for the engine and an additional $1000 for modifications?
    The H22A is quite old now, as the newest of them are 15 years old. Your plan to rebuild is a good one, but be careful not to cut too many corners. I'd suggest spending the bulk of your money on the best H22A you can find, rather than grabbing one in need of a rebuild and expecting to bring it back to life. The H22A has FRM cylinder liners, which are fantastic... lightweight, strong, and great at dissipating heat... but if they get damaged, they're not salvageable. If you find an H22A that needs a rebuild, and it turns out that it has been starved of oil, snapped a piston ring, or something else that could have damaged a cylinder liner, you'll have to resleeve the block. That's a $1200 job at the very least.
    I HIGHLY recommend buying an H22A from www.hmotorsonline.com. I bought mine there back in 2003, and it is still running today in my friend's car. HMO's prices are higher than most, but the quality is worth it. They're a great company as well, and they stand behind their engines (the cheaper engine resellers, especially the Canadian ones, are pretty much the polar opposite. Avoid those!)
    A good engine from HMO with fresh seals, gaskets, timing belt, tensioner, and water pump would probably be better than a cheaper H22A that you tore down and rebuilt. Probably cheaper in the end, too.

    Anyway, on to your questions.

    1) If you're just working with $1000 (I'm going to assume this is $1000 in addition to the $2000 for the H22A), your options are fairly limited... but there are some. The best options within your budget would probably be:
    The intake manifold from the Euro R H22A
    Camshafts from the Euro R or Type S H22A
    A good header... you'll likely need to find a used one to be within budget (RMF, SMSP, Mugen, Feel's... all top notch brands that produce significant power.) Another option is to buy a cheaper header from DC Sports and weld on a new merge collector (2.5" is the most common option.)

    You'll want a 2.5" exhaust system to go with any of those mods, because a narrow pipe won't allow the engine to take advantage of improved breathing.
    Chances are slim that you'll be able to afford more than one of the things mentioned above for your $1000 budget, especially if you're adding an exhaust to the mix... but any or all of those should work fine with a stock OBD1 P13 ECU. Better with a tune, but the stock ECU shouldn't throw a fit (however, keep in mind that the P13 looks for an IAB sytsem in the intake manifold... which the Euro R manifold does not have. A tune would be wise regardless... a P72 ECU, or a P28 with the IAB circuit added would be highly beneficial.)

    2) I don't feel like typing out all the H22A specs, so I'll just refer you to Wikipedia. They're accurate on there.
    The best H22A is the Euro R (220hp), by most opinions. If you were leaving it bone stock, and prepared to shell out the cash for one, then it's a fantastic choice. However, since you're looking to rebuild and modify, I would advise you to get a base model JDM H22A. That one makes 200hp, and is generally the most affordable. USDM engines tend to have higher mileage, and the older OBD1 engines only made 190hp (not a huge deal... but 10hp is 10hp!) The beauty of the JDM H22A is that you can buy EVERY part for it at your local Honda dealer or autoparts store. Anything that isn't identical to USDM parts is at least interchangeable. Other popular JDM engines (F20B and H23A, for example) have parts that are not available in the US... a bitch if you break something, or, as you are, looking to rebuild.

    In short, get a base H22A. OBD1 makes things easier, but OBD2 is usable.

    3) If you buy a healthy engine, gaskets, rubber, lines, belts, tensioner, water pump, perhaps the oil pump... that should be all you need. If the engine is healthy, there should be no need to fully disassemble it. Even if you're skilled and experienced, everything you touch on the engine introduces a new opportunity for failure. Don't fix what ain't broken. Better to buy an engine that doesn't need fixing.
    Having the injectors professionally cleaned and balanced wouldn't be a bad idea. Not absolutely necessary, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

    4) All transmissions found on any FWD F or H series engine will bolt up to the H22A. The most you'll need to do is drill and tap a new transmission mount hole in the transmission casing. It's quite simple, and the necessary tools are inexpensive. I would go with the transmission that came with the base H22A, personally (and I did, in fact, do just that.) There are transmissions with OEM LSD, but I would avoid those like the plague (the LSD units are considerably larger than aftermarket units, and thus cannot be upgraded or replaced with an aftermarket unit. They were never sold in the US, so sourcing a replacement LSD in the event of failure would be difficult and expensive. Aftermarket units are superior anyway.)
    If you google "h series transmission ratios", you should find a few sites that have detailed lists of every available transmission. If you understand gear ratios, you can pick exactly what you want from that list.
    Getting a new quality clutch (no "stage" anything... a good OEM Exedy will do just fine...) and perhaps a lighter flywheel would make the car seem a bit more lively. I wouldn't go much lighter than 11lbs (though you can.)

    5) A tune never hurts. With basic bolt-on modifications, a few of the more experienced members here could probably provide you with a map that would be sufficient... eliminating the need to pay a quality tuner. If you want a good tune, look up Carlos Tuning (he's active on Facebook.) He's in Orlando, and does some fine work. He's an original CB7tuner member, and I've known him since he was an annoying kid.

    I'd avoid a CAI. Made that mistake myself... and ended up with a rusty butthole in my engine bay, and no real performance gains. A short ram intake will be plenty. In fact, the stock intake piping is quite good, though ugly. There's really no reason to replace it performance-wise. If you do get an aftermarket intake, be sure it has a good filter. A pipe is a pipe, but a bad filter will result in a ton of crap getting into your engine. AEM, K&N, or Apexi are the brands to trust. Avoid pretty much anything else filter-wise.
    And, because I just can't resist... we just have one header.






    Comment


      #3
      Everything Deev has said is correct other than the cost of resleeving the block. I paid $350 for my Darton iron ductile sleeves, with no flange, and $75 a cylinder to resleeve the block.

      Total cost $650 for new iron sleeves.
      MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

      Comment


        #4
        Wow, really? That’s a steal! I’ve never seen it for less than $1000.
        Still puts him well over budget unless he finds a cheap engine and stuffs it with budget internals... but that makes a junk h22 much less scary.






        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by deevergote View Post
          To really do things right, your budget is fairly limited. Is $2000 your limit for the engine AND modifications, or are you looking at $2000 for the engine and an additional $1000 for modifications?
          The H22A is quite old now, as the newest of them are 15 years old. Your plan to rebuild is a good one, but be careful not to cut too many corners. I'd suggest spending the bulk of your money on the best H22A you can find, rather than grabbing one in need of a rebuild and expecting to bring it back to life. The H22A has FRM cylinder liners, which are fantastic... lightweight, strong, and great at dissipating heat... but if they get damaged, they're not salvageable. If you find an H22A that needs a rebuild, and it turns out that it has been starved of oil, snapped a piston ring, or something else that could have damaged a cylinder liner, you'll have to resleeve the block. That's a $1200 job at the very least.
          I HIGHLY recommend buying an H22A from www.hmotorsonline.com. I bought mine there back in 2003, and it is still running today in my friend's car. HMO's prices are higher than most, but the quality is worth it. They're a great company as well, and they stand behind their engines (the cheaper engine resellers, especially the Canadian ones, are pretty much the polar opposite. Avoid those!)
          A good engine from HMO with fresh seals, gaskets, timing belt, tensioner, and water pump would probably be better than a cheaper H22A that you tore down and rebuilt. Probably cheaper in the end, too.

          Anyway, on to your questions.

          1) If you're just working with $1000 (I'm going to assume this is $1000 in addition to the $2000 for the H22A), your options are fairly limited... but there are some. The best options within your budget would probably be:
          The intake manifold from the Euro R H22A
          Camshafts from the Euro R or Type S H22A
          A good header... you'll likely need to find a used one to be within budget (RMF, SMSP, Mugen, Feel's... all top notch brands that produce significant power.) Another option is to buy a cheaper header from DC Sports and weld on a new merge collector (2.5" is the most common option.)

          You'll want a 2.5" exhaust system to go with any of those mods, because a narrow pipe won't allow the engine to take advantage of improved breathing.
          Chances are slim that you'll be able to afford more than one of the things mentioned above for your $1000 budget, especially if you're adding an exhaust to the mix... but any or all of those should work fine with a stock OBD1 P13 ECU. Better with a tune, but the stock ECU shouldn't throw a fit (however, keep in mind that the P13 looks for an IAB sytsem in the intake manifold... which the Euro R manifold does not have. A tune would be wise regardless... a P72 ECU, or a P28 with the IAB circuit added would be highly beneficial.)

          2) I don't feel like typing out all the H22A specs, so I'll just refer you to Wikipedia. They're accurate on there.
          The best H22A is the Euro R (220hp), by most opinions. If you were leaving it bone stock, and prepared to shell out the cash for one, then it's a fantastic choice. However, since you're looking to rebuild and modify, I would advise you to get a base model JDM H22A. That one makes 200hp, and is generally the most affordable. USDM engines tend to have higher mileage, and the older OBD1 engines only made 190hp (not a huge deal... but 10hp is 10hp!) The beauty of the JDM H22A is that you can buy EVERY part for it at your local Honda dealer or autoparts store. Anything that isn't identical to USDM parts is at least interchangeable. Other popular JDM engines (F20B and H23A, for example) have parts that are not available in the US... a bitch if you break something, or, as you are, looking to rebuild.

          In short, get a base H22A. OBD1 makes things easier, but OBD2 is usable.

          3) If you buy a healthy engine, gaskets, rubber, lines, belts, tensioner, water pump, perhaps the oil pump... that should be all you need. If the engine is healthy, there should be no need to fully disassemble it. Even if you're skilled and experienced, everything you touch on the engine introduces a new opportunity for failure. Don't fix what ain't broken. Better to buy an engine that doesn't need fixing.
          Having the injectors professionally cleaned and balanced wouldn't be a bad idea. Not absolutely necessary, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.

          4) All transmissions found on any FWD F or H series engine will bolt up to the H22A. The most you'll need to do is drill and tap a new transmission mount hole in the transmission casing. It's quite simple, and the necessary tools are inexpensive. I would go with the transmission that came with the base H22A, personally (and I did, in fact, do just that.) There are transmissions with OEM LSD, but I would avoid those like the plague (the LSD units are considerably larger than aftermarket units, and thus cannot be upgraded or replaced with an aftermarket unit. They were never sold in the US, so sourcing a replacement LSD in the event of failure would be difficult and expensive. Aftermarket units are superior anyway.)
          If you google "h series transmission ratios", you should find a few sites that have detailed lists of every available transmission. If you understand gear ratios, you can pick exactly what you want from that list.
          Getting a new quality clutch (no "stage" anything... a good OEM Exedy will do just fine...) and perhaps a lighter flywheel would make the car seem a bit more lively. I wouldn't go much lighter than 11lbs (though you can.)

          5) A tune never hurts. With basic bolt-on modifications, a few of the more experienced members here could probably provide you with a map that would be sufficient... eliminating the need to pay a quality tuner. If you want a good tune, look up Carlos Tuning (he's active on Facebook.) He's in Orlando, and does some fine work. He's an original CB7tuner member, and I've known him since he was an annoying kid.

          I'd avoid a CAI. Made that mistake myself... and ended up with a rusty butthole in my engine bay, and no real performance gains. A short ram intake will be plenty. In fact, the stock intake piping is quite good, though ugly. There's really no reason to replace it performance-wise. If you do get an aftermarket intake, be sure it has a good filter. A pipe is a pipe, but a bad filter will result in a ton of crap getting into your engine. AEM, K&N, or Apexi are the brands to trust. Avoid pretty much anything else filter-wise.
          And, because I just can't resist... we just have one header.
          Thank you for the abundance of information! I don't have any follow up questions, but if I do, I'll write back. I have been around this forum for a couple of years but due to the recent purchase of a new CB after getting rid of my old one, I decided it would be a good idea to create an account.

          Comment


            #6
            I recommend the H23a VTEC...the blue top. It's cheap and has very nice power stock. Most people get 200whp with bolt ons and higher torque than the H22A. Google some dyno graphs of both motors and see how they perform on average. The only thing different from the regular H22a are the rods. Their lengths are different. Everything else can come from the USDM H22.

            A tuned H23a will gain about 10whp.

            I also recommend at least a manual tensioner and maybe a balance shaft delete if you don't mind the vibrations.

            YouTube Clicky!!

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
              I recommend the H23a VTEC...the blue top. It's cheap and has very nice power stock. Most people get 200whp with bolt ons and higher torque than the H22A. Google some dyno graphs of both motors and see how they perform on average. The only thing different from the regular H22a are the rods. Their lengths are different. Everything else can come from the USDM H22.

              A tuned H23a will gain about 10whp.

              I also recommend at least a manual tensioner and maybe a balance shaft delete if you don't mind the vibrations.
              Thank you for the recommendation, but I'm sold on the H22. If I don't turbo a F22a, I will be purchasing one.

              Comment


                #8
                The eternal question...boost the F or H swap.
                Whichever path you choose, keep us updated!

                YouTube Clicky!!

                Comment


                  #9
                  You could always go both ways. Swap in the H, and slowly build the F for boost on the side!






                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                    You could always go both ways. Swap in the H, and slowly build the F for boost on the side!
                    That’s what I’m doing currently, f-series are a lot of fun to run boosted
                    ~Nick~
                    FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
                    MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by sonikaccord View Post
                      The eternal question...boost the F or H swap.
                      Whichever path you choose, keep us updated!
                      I'll make sure to open a build thread when it comes down to it!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                        You could always go both ways. Swap in the H, and slowly build the F for boost on the side!
                        My moneys not that long lol! I would if I could though.

                        Comment

                        Working...
                        X