Front sway bar increase oversteer?

[TheSnigg]

Stiffer front ARB (anti roll bar aka swaybar) will tend to improve steering response, but a few metres into the corner the car will undesteer more than with a softer front ARB. A stiffer front ARB will also cause the inside front wheel to unload more when exiting corners.

I've completely removed the front ARB on my CB7 and much prefer the reduction in understeer. This (removing front ARB) does affect turn in sharpness, but you can sharpen it back up by stiffening up the front Konis (and pumping up the tyres). Removing the front ARB causes a surprisingly small increase in body roll, but a significantly large reduction in understeer.

Typically, for front drive cars it's better to increase rear ARB stiffness as this reduces understeer.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/suspen...steer-2179938/

I found the above from a honda tech thread. It specifically speaks to the front sway bar application on our vehicles. I wanted to get some perspective as to anyone else who has experienced this.

If I did upgrade the front sway, could I negate the affects of understeer with softer dampening and a lower preload in the front?

[CyborgGT]

In before "no black and white suspension answers"?

Waiting for domesticated to pop in for a professional's answer, but from my reading, and experience with the f+r sway bar upgrade on my RSX (installed six months apart from each other to try to get a real feel for the individual changes), I'm understanding two things:

1) A rear sway bar primarily affects the grip of the front tires, and a front bar primarily affects rear grip. The stiffer the bar, the more grip it induces... or at least balances the car between oversteer and understeer. That's not to say a bar won't affect its own end of the car. Say you stiffen the front bar: when you go to turn hard, having all the weight shift to the outside tire is now going to take even more weight off the inside tire than with a softer bar - a sway bar is just a spring, and that outside end is now naturally trying to wrench the inner end upward to straighten itself.

When aftermarket companies put out a pair of sway bars for a car, I imagine they're still following the OEM and tuning them for a bit of understeer because it's safer on public roads. That's when you often have to start mix-matching different brands' bars to really customize your setup. It really is an intricate balancing act. That's problematic for the CB, because we have, what, two aftermarket options?

2) If the tuning advice in Gran Turismo is accurate, that game says that generally you want to soften the damping as you stiffen the sway bars, and vice versa - which does agree with what you quoted; him removing the weak factory bar and stiffening the dampers to compensate.

[marcusv8thunder]

Stiffer rear bar reduces rear grip. Stiffer front bar removes front grip. It does this by unloading the inside wheel of the same axle. On fwd cars you dont want to remove or soften the front bar as a solution, its best to increase rear stiffness. If front bar softening/removal is helping then you have another issue with your setup. In high speed cornering you dont want alot of supension movement/roll. You need stability.

[Raf99]

Stiffer rear bar reduces rear grip. Stiffer front bar removes front grip. It does this by unloading the inside wheel of the same axle. On fwd cars you dont want to remove or soften the front bar as a solution, its best to increase rear stiffness. If front bar softening/removal is helping then you have another issue with your setup. In high speed cornering you dont want alot of supension movement/roll. You need stability.

But this implies that your prior grip (before the bar addition in the front) was from body roll / frame bending in turns?

[marcusv8thunder]

But this implies that your prior grip (before the bar addition in the front) was from body roll / frame bending in turns?

Yes in part true.

OP, ARBs only deal with lateral weight shift. To control longitudinal forces, like nose diving under braking or rear squat out of corners dampers come into play. You are trying to maximise tyre contact. For us with double wishbone all round, the outside corners of the car gains more negative camber, the trick is to match your setup, be it soft or stiff, with your cambers and pressures to use the tyre 100%

[TheSnigg]

Yes in part true.

OP, ARBs only deal with lateral weight shift. To control longitudinal forces, like nose diving under braking or rear squat out of corners dampers come into play. You are trying to maximise tyre contact. For us with double wishbone all round, the outside corners of the car gains more negative camber, the trick is to match your setup, be it soft or stiff, with your cambers and pressures to use the tyre 100%

Wow all great information! Thanks for the insight. So it would be correct then to move the damping/spring rates down as I get stiffer sways?

Currently there is no front camber kit. And I chose to keep a small amount of negative camber in the front for cornereing. I am under the impression that the wheels experience forces making them want to stand straighter as you corner and accelerate. (Like cornering on a motorcycle, as you accelerate the bike will stand up out of a lean).

There is a rear camber kit. Rear sway bar is coming, and I can play with the damping and spring rates in the front and back. I'm thinking that I may do this before I get the new front sway.

Please correct me if I'm wrong in these areas.