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Old 12-04-2019, 10:30 PM   #1
dreamability
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H23A1 Intake Port & Polish vs IAB's

Ok, so last weekend I scored an H23A1 intake at the yard.
I've been doing a lot of reading up on the forum and there are so many different
points of view and varying facts on porting it or keeping the IAB's
Realizing that not every build is the same I'm looking for some knowledge with consideration to what I'll be doing
over all and if this would be beneficial.

I have my P06 now and its already set up for IAB's if needed.
I am about to send my Cam to Web
for a stage 2 regrind and purchase some upgraded valve springs.
Then finally take it out to Redline Preformance in Arlington for a Dyno Tune.
Other considerations, the engine has true cold air intake, DC Sports header, highflow cat, 2.25" mandrel bent piping and a MagnaFlow 2.5" duel tip muffler.

So with all that considered, with a tune would it be better to port and polish or keep the IAB's?
Also would I benefit at all going with any bigger TB?

Thanks for the feedback
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Old 12-05-2019, 12:24 AM   #2
af_1132
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A bigger TB and a ported H23 IM will help you out only at the top of the rpms. You will be able to flow more air with less turbulence up there, provided you have the reground cam, a tune, and injectors that allow for proper flow (consider RDX injectors or H22 injectors).

Your low end power will be hurt, however. This is because the engine needs less air in the lower rpm register, but you won't be able to pressurize the air if the volume of the chamber the air is passing through is so much larger than stock (i.e. without active IABs, which close the secondary runners at low rpm). Now, it may be true that the pressure of any fluid, including air, is higher when its velocity is lower, this does not make up for the fact that your chamber volume is so large.
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Old 12-05-2019, 07:56 PM   #3
dreamability
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Hey brother! Thanks for chiming in on this. Yeah absolutely I would gain on the high end.
I'm doing all you mentioned except the injectors. Didn't think I was doing enough just yet to justify larger injectors.
I'm curious now???, lol. Should I?
Now as far as the loss on the low end I understand why the IAB's are beneficial for my low end torque.
However I was thinking it would be minimal loss after a good tune.
The fuel map would be adjusted for the extra air flow on the low end right? Is this wrong?
Although there would be greater turbulence of course from the increased volume and loss of velocity so some loss for sure.
Well again, thanks for the feedback. I feel like I'm going to go for the port/polish/IAB delete and see how it goes.
I'd enjoy getting to witness first hand the results, be it good or bad.

Last edited by dreamability; 12-05-2019 at 11:21 PM.
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Old 12-05-2019, 08:05 PM   #4
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Well it can't do anything except help with the new cam.

Side note: What cam did you get web to grind for you? I highly suggest you have them grind Gary's specs. Much better than their standard stuff. His MRT is jdmaccorn_92 I think. Been awhile since I've read his thread.

For my rebuilt H22A1 that I have in Lola currently I ported and polished the entire intake manifold. I opted to keep the IAB's though and port matched the IAB plate to the runners and then the plenum opening to the IAB plate. With everything matching you can really tell when the IAB plate opens up before VTEC kicks in.

For now you could keep the IAB's, port match and polish everything and see how that is. If you feel it's not enough, then you could always delete them in the future. Honda did put them there for a reason. They even carried this technology into the J series V6 engines.
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Old 12-06-2019, 03:35 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilas View Post
................... Honda did put them there for a reason. They even carried this technology into the J series V6 engines.
%^ This. Yeep. And it's all in what your goals are. Staying NA? (naturally aspired), then start thinking little options like this if you're looking for high HP. Some of these parts get you no HP, some get you 1-2HP. Most of them are just for show and bc you wanted it that way (ie: balance shaft deletes or PS delete). I always favored low end power as the car is a bit heavy and no-one in my country is aiming for 200mph+. Mainly for fun or track use.

Don't forget about the NA high HP page.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=194051
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Old 12-07-2019, 07:50 PM   #6
dreamability
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilas View Post
Well it can't do anything except help with the new cam.

Side note: What cam did you get web to grind for you? I highly suggest you have them grind Gary's specs. Much better than their standard stuff. His MRT is jdmaccorn_92 I think. Been awhile since I've read his thread

Honda did put them there for a reason. They even carried this technology into the J series V6 engines.
Hey Rilas!
So here go the questions.
Once those butterflys open the fuel map changes to add more fuel to compensate for the extra air right?
So now wouldn't the tune adjust for the increased air on the low end?
Would that help some with the loss on the low end?
And of course the loss of velocity and turbulence would still account for some loss.

I looked through the member registry and could not find jdmaccorn_92. If you have a link to his page please send it my way.

As for the cam there was some hold up because I couldn't find an A6 in the yard.
I called them and ask if I needed to pull my A6 or if they could do the same profile on the A1 cam I had laying around.
Faith looked it up for me and she said they could do an A6 regrind on the A1.
She also mentioned that the stage 2+ they do for the A1 cams had a longer duration on the exhaust
but the same lift as the A6 exhaust and that they would ad the duration to mine.
I don't have exact specs though.
This is the last email she sent:
As discussed you will be sending me an F22A1 stock core for a regrind.
This will be in replacement of the F22A6 Stock cam that you have.
We will be doing the #148E Stage 2 A6 profile on the Intake and the 764+3° Stage 2"+" A1 profile on the exhaust.
This will be most efficient for mid to top end.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
%^ This. Yeep. And it's all in what your goals are. Staying NA? (naturally aspired), then start thinking little options like this if you're looking for high HP.
Well brother, what are my goals?
I'm hell bent on doing NA and staying with the F22.
I love the engine, its original, has potential, and its a challenge.
As of right now I'd like to add a little more performance.
Getting to do a couple circuit races this summer for fun would be nice too.
Before summer I'd like to finish my suspension upgrades,(rear control arms/bushings/front SPC adjst balljoint),
and get this cam/intake/tune all worked out.
Then this summer start my performance NA short block build in the garage.
Slow and steady over like a year as I learn and afford all the parts, same as how I've done the rest of my build.

Thanks for adding the link to the NA high HP page.

Thanks guys for taking the time to go over this with me.
I Want my mod decisions to be based on experience and facts,
so the work I'm doing is actually an improvement and not just guesses or fantasies that have no benefit.

Last edited by dreamability; 12-08-2019 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Shortening it, too long winded.
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Old 12-08-2019, 10:00 PM   #7
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You definitely need to go with bigger injectors with that reground cam, consider the RDX injectors. They are 450cc to 550cc and have worked out great with all the tunes I have done with different tuners. I still have the ones from 2014, and they still work flawlessly. You will need injector top hats to make them fit into our rails, and you will need to delete the resistor box since they are high impedance injectors. A little soldering is required, but it further cleans your already pristine bay.

If you are going out on the track, you need, at minimum, three more things. Don't make the same mistake I did by running a stock pan without an oil pressure gauge: I spun both rod bearings on cylinder 2.

Get a baffled pan: Moroso sells pans for the H22A that line up perfectly and require a pan gasket. They are literally the same as ours, but they require more oil (I am still trying to figure out just how much, a quart more).

Get a windage tray: this will protect your engine for excessive oil frothing from high speed churning by the crank. You don't want the pickup sucking in oil froth when you need it to suck in oil.

Get an oil pressure gauge: you can hook this up in front of and inline with the oil pressure sensor.
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Old 12-12-2019, 10:26 PM   #8
dreamability
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Thanks everyone for taking the time to post your experience and views.
I'm going to go for the port and polish on the H23 manifold and delete the IAB plate.
I mailed the cam to Web Tuesday and they will start it on Monday.
Going to install my P06 with the A6 basemap this Saturday, but no tune until the intake, cam, and valve springs are all done.
Ordered A 70mm TB and will port match the plenum to it.
I'm going to take af_1132 advice and pick up some injectors and look into options for the oil pan or possible mods. O
nce again I have a bunch of work ahead of me and that's something I enjoy. Ill be updating my MRT when I make some progress.
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