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"Tuner" scene Ranting

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    "Tuner" scene Ranting

    Hello everyone.

    I started a rant about the "scene" in another thread, where it was totally OT, and I felt I needed a "bitchfest" on this topic.

    Some backstory:
    Wayyy back in 2011 my hubs started doing custom work out of our garage. Bay shaves, wire tucks, engine swaps, rhd conversions, ect.

    About a year in, he made himself available to the public at large, moved into a proper shop, also and launched a product, shock-tower extensions. He needed them for a lot of the builds, and the ones that were on the market at the time were subpar. So he made his own.

    The public at large sucks. We had people pay their deposits and not come back for months. We had people who would say they would pay on X day, and never show. We were nearly evicted, had our lights shut off multiple times, and were generally broke and miserable.

    Not to mention the behavior of people online. People who cannot be troubled to read ordering instructions, would then go on social media and flame hubs as a theif, when what would happen next, (that they didn't bother to read) was clearly laid out for them. It nearly made him I'll. You cannot make people literate, but online flaming of a small shop can kill a reputation. He did a lot of damage control that should never have happened.

    After 3 years he closed up the larger operation.
    He now only does side work he wants to do. He moved all the shock-tower selling over to distributors. He went back to his former job, and we have been able to pay our bills, comfortably.

    The honda scene sucks. We had 10x the issues with Honda people than we did any other kind. He worked on all kinds of chassis, but Honda's are his love, and to be flamed, nickle and dimed and generally fucked over by your kind-nearly put him off Honda's, period.

    We are almost 2 years out, and he is just now coming back around to working on his integra. He still has a few builds in the shop, but they are side work.

    If he never touches another Civic, good for him. Seriously.
    Project wagon! Much excite! 2018!

    That Sedan. Purchased '07-->Swap'd-->Tuck'd-->Wreck'd-->May '16

    #2
    A lot of the shops and professional fabricators I follow or keep in touch with can seemingly attribute their success to how discerning they are when it comes to the clients they will work with. There are just too many self-centered low-lifes in this hobby.
    My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

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      #3
      I say in sales of any product or service reading the customer is a key, every single day I deal with people in my line of duty where they don't really know what they need or want a product but are not willing to deal with the cost associated. I have had folks stop when I am working on my cars and ask me how much I charge to do X for them, my first response is that I am not in business and inquire as to why they want me to do said work for them; 9 out of ten times is because they don't want to pay and Erick the car guy did it in 3 minutes so they figure it can be done for Y money. Honda and Chevy offer cheap entry into the performance world at a quarter the price of any other platform and it tends to be less complicated which leads to folks assuming they can get work done for nothing because a buddy of a buddy built a 500hp civic for $500. Often we see threads and post of people that WANT to do X to their car or have started on the project just to find out it was more than they can handle or willing to spend and expect mechanic A or B to fix something that said mechanic does not know about and the flaming and dirt flinging begins. In summary folks want the job done for lower a price than ifvthey were to do it themselves, ask around for a shopping list to a build but are not willing to pay the price for the materials needed so they simply whine instead of doing the work and try and find alternatives. Your husband's experience is the reason why I have not gone on business on my own.
      [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFNC7Z]

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        #4
        And that's why I've been scared to fully pursue a self-operated car business that focuses only on the tuners, especially Hondas. I feel that the scene won't appreciate you until you've done something outrageous like break records or become a viral sensation. The smaller companies will always be hated on for something, anything and everything. So much criticism from people who have little to no experience with the product or service.

        That's also a reason why I've stayed away from the civic/teg circles and stuck with Accords and Preludes.

        YouTube Clicky!!

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          #5
          Quality work is expensive, which is why I've done my best to learn how to do many things on my own. If I decide to pay to have something done, it means the cost (however much that may be) is worth it to me to not have to do the work myself. For example, I paid over $100 in labor alone to have my spark plugs changed in my CTS-V. Why? Because they're a total pain in the ass to get to, I'd have had to buy more tools to do it properly, and it's a pain in the ass even when you have the right tools! The price I paid was a bargain, IMO. The guy that did it for me even said it was one of the most miserable experiences he's had in recent times! I was glad to pay.
          Replacing the top on my Miata would cost me $650 in labor alone (the top I want is over $500...) I know it's a lot of work, but that's something I'm going to do myself... because $650 is ridiculous (if the shop charges $150/hr, should it really take an upholstery shop that is recommended by the company that manufactures the tops a full 4+ hours? I don't think so. It'll take ME 4 hours!) Still, I didn't insult the shop by lowballing them. They're just not getting my business, because their price is too high for what I feel the job is worth. No bashing, no insults, no rude behavior. I simply thanked them and decided not to go with them.

          Many people don't want to pay money for quality. They don't want to pay for quality parts. They don't want to pay for quality work. Eric the Car Guy, forums, Facebook posts, Instagram pictures... whatever... they make things look easy. For a novice, doing something right is often NOT easy, and usually not cheap if you have to invest in the proper tools. Paying someone who has already made the investment in tools and knowledge costs money, as it should. I didn't go to college so someone could pay me minimum wage. Professional mechanics and fabricators didn't put endless hours into honing their craft to be paid bargain prices!

          When it comes to parts, Chinese knockoff garbage has been slowly killing the aftermarket for many, many years. Quality parts makers don't cater to a market that would rather buy knockoff parts that are 30% the price and 15% the quality. That goes for large parts makers and small. Small parts makers, like LadyG's hubby or ESP don't have a huge market to keep them afloat. If only a few people pass them up for cheap, inferior copies, they'll just close up shop (as Chris did, and as ESP did for a couple years... hopefully we can keep them around this time!)

          I would NEVER want to be in the custom tuner business. Not on the wrenching or fabrication side of it, anyway! I can barely stand to be on the information side of things... and that's only tolerable because we've built a community with a healthy immune system. We don't get idiot infections. We've had little more than the imbecile sniffles for at least half a decade at this point! Being a part of this community actually makes the shock of being exposed to idiots in the "real world" even more unpleasant.






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            #6
            LadyG, would you say its generation related? Or was it all ages of dumb dumbs?

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              #7
              ^ That's what I was wondering. The problem with Hondas is that they're so cheap that they get an extremely diverse demographic. Honda's quality of engineering completely deserves their popularity, but if you can't afford a monthly car payment, chances are you can't afford the custom work you want. The more expensive the car, the better the ratio of quality builds to eBay projects. For that, it feels like the Honda scene is both the best and the worst to be a part of.

              Accord Aero-R

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                #8
                Yep. So really good lesson to learn for those who are serious about their profession. ie - doing a custom engine bays and custom fab work, you may want to target high end vehicles.

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                  Yep. So really good lesson to learn for those who are serious about their profession. ie - doing a custom engine bays and custom fab work, you may want to target high end vehicles.
                  Or at least the higher end Hondas, i can see how a civic or integra owner be a hell of a lot less mature than lets say a NSX or S2k owner. The same could be said in a Camaro vs Vette owner, each car attracts a different demographic with a much different budget and different age group.
                  [url=https://flic.kr/p/2hFNC7Z]

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                    #10
                    Cheap cars attract cheap "enthusiasts". Cheap cars with extensive cheap aftermarkets make for a very active cheap "enthusiast" community (I use that word loosely.)

                    You can buy a Civic from 92 and up, and you can find an endless supply of bargain parts strewn about the internet. When ebay shows you two dozen "JDM" upgrades you can do to your $1000 car for under $100 each, you begin to formulate an expectation for the cost of modifying your car. It's quite a shock when someone offers custom parts or custom modifications for a hefty price. I mean... I can boost my Civic for $500. What do you mean it's going to be $1000 for a full tuck? F'n rip off, man!
                    That person is the same one that, in 6 months' time, is saying "Hondas are crap. They blow up too easy. I'm getting a WRX. No more of this stupid FWD stuff. That's for kids!"

                    The really rude and clueless people seem to be younger. At least that's what I experienced online (and that was mainly the kids that used Facebook... apparently they don't really do that anymore!) The younger ones were toddlers at best when the import tuning scene exploded in the US and Canada. They never experienced a limited aftermarket that was still exploring, improving, and coming up with innovative new products to advertise in each new issue of Super Street, Modified, and Sport Compact Car. When they finally got behind the wheel of whatever rusty beater mommy and daddy could afford to buy them, they had instant access to all the cheap Chinese junk on eBay. To those kids, Megan Racing, OBX, XXR, and a whole host of cheap knockoff companies are "legit brands". They see the tuner world MUCH differently than the old, experienced folks do!
                    I've seen quite a few older people that want to halfass, and the attitude I get from them is one of two types: 1) I've been around the block, so I know what I'm getting into (meaning "I was an ignorant and rude kid 10 years ago, and I never grew out of it.") and 2) I'm just getting into this hobby and had no idea it could be so expensive. What's the cheapest way I can do things?

                    These days, you don't buy an old Honda to modify unless you're a serious enthusiast or you're flat broke. Serious enthusiasts will pay... but flat broke folks are far more common!






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                      #11
                      Never punish yourself with something you love.

                      I will never turn my hobby into work. It's what I do for joy.




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                        #12
                        Originally posted by H311RA151N View Post
                        Never punish yourself with something you love.

                        I will never turn my hobby into work. It's what I do for joy.
                        That. Yes. Exactly.






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                          #13
                          Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                          Yep. So really good lesson to learn for those who are serious about their profession. ie - doing a custom engine bays and custom fab work, you may want to target high end vehicles.
                          Like Bisimoto and Porsche. It seems a lot of other American performance shops moved their focus onto 'premium' cars after the R35 GT-R released, too.

                          Accord Aero-R

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                            #14
                            Though I wonder how common the Bisimoto situation is, too... Bisi definitely seemed to give the attitude that he was too good for the Honda community, and took advantage of people left and right. Basically, he probably got sick of the whiny poor kids that expect something for nothing, so he just overcharged them (because his brand became trendy) for poorly made junk that at some time MAY have had some worthwhile engineering behind it. Once he began burning his bridges, he sought wealthier, more serious customers.

                            I still hope he screws Dr. Porsche Owner, Esq. and gets his ass sued. After the way he treated so many people on here, he has it coming.






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                              #15
                              I must have missed the pretentious posts.

                              Accord Aero-R

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