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Old 01-31-2012, 05:03 PM   #1
SASKCB7
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DSM Turbo setups.

I'm just trying to learn about the DSM Turbo setups everyone talks about.

From what I read, one would use the stock turbo out of Chrysler/Mitsubishi vehicle from 1990-99. Such as Eagle Talons, Mitsubishi Eclipse and Plymouth Lazor. The Turbo used is a 14b turbo from 90-94 models with the 4G63T engine. Then 95 - 99 Have the T25 turbo. All three vehicles have the same engine and turbo from 90-94 and 95-99.
Named the DSM turbo setups because they are Diamond star motors.
It sounds like you use the stock fuel injectors and manifold too?
I just wanted to confirm what I think I have learned. Maybe this will clear some things up for other curious users too. As I couldn't find much info on the topic, other than people are doing it.

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Old 01-31-2012, 06:25 PM   #2
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This should answer most of your questions - http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showpost...73&postcount=1
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:03 PM   #3
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I have read that before and did again now. I didn't understand what DSM was, It hadn't been explained, and I couldn't find an explanation on here. So yeah that confirms what I said I guess. Thanks.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:14 PM   #4
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Just to clarify, you use the Accord fuel rail and intake manifold, but you use the DSM 450cc injectors.

For the absolute basic setup, the DSM parts to be used are:
Exhaust/turbo manifold
14b or 16g Turbo
o2 housing
Side mount intercooler (a front mount is MUCH better, though... intercoolers from Starions/Conquests or Fuso trucks have been used with success.)
BOV
450cc injectors (1st gen "blue top" injectors are safest, as all with blue tops are 450cc. 2nd gen "gray tops" have a better spray pattern, but you'll need to get them from a reliable source so you don't end up with non-turbo injectors, which can be mistaken for the 450cc pieces by an inexperienced person.)

Non-DSM parts to be used are:
PO6 ECU
Charge piping
Front mount intercooler (instead of the DSM side mount)
Oil lines
Downpipe (this will have to be custom)
Colder spark plugs

Some things may have been left out. I've never actually built a turbo car... I know a hell of a lot more than I've done, thanks to my time on this site!

With careful, diligent shopping, you could potentially build an entire DSM turbo setup, right down to the chipped P06 ECU, for about $500.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:17 PM   #5
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Yes what you stated is correct.

A turbocharged eclipse, only a select few are DSM's even though they all like to steel the name.
DSM occured with mitsubishi and chrystler partnered together to create something realitively new and to this day a great platform.

The heads on 90-99 eclipses that have a 4g63t engine has alot of similarities, as the exhaust manifold kept the same design.
This design just so happens to match up to a f22 accord head. all that needs to be done is to reem the manifold stud holes over for proper allignment.

A T25 turbo is very small even for the the 4g63t.
A16g should really be bair minimum for most applications, so it's not overrun and abused.

Any questions feel free to ask, I've built my dsm several times am now pushing 49 lbs per min with a timing curveof 17 degrees at 33 psi.
From our calculations I'm near 12.5 hp per 1lb a min. as I cannot find a local awd dyno.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:29 PM   #6
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The 14b has been shown to be sufficient, though yes, the t25 is too small (and small turbos create heat, which are like putting a blowtorch to your engine's internals... that were already not designed for the abuse!)

Technically, DSM still exists as MMNA. Chrysler backed out of the mix between 91 and 93, yet the "official" DSM models continued until 1999, I believe (1st and 2nd gen models only.)



And holy shit Brandon... 49? What are you making, 600hp? I assume still auto... is that transmission holding up, or did you build it stronger?
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:04 PM   #7
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Yes sir, had it restalled, and installed my shift kit etc... 2nd gear at 40 mph still breaks the all 4 tires loose when i punch it.

More interesting facts. Hyundia baught the rights to copy all mitsubishi's designs, and some of their cars have 6 bolt motors in them setup as na. the rods and psitons are forged. etc..... They and kia both are using the designs and every part is 100% in spec with mitsubishi, it just has a different co. stamp on it. I don't have time to give every single part and car they come on, but their are thousands of parts that are interchangeable at a much lower cost as, peope for a while looked down on those 2 manufacturers.
But Kia's new turbocharged car thats freaking awsome, what if i told you it has the same 6 bolt block as my car, just not quite as beefed up as mine is now. It'll make you start to rethink kia and hyundias platforms in a serious manor.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:15 PM   #8
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Oh yeah, the old Hyundai Sonata had a 4G64 in it... essentially the same as the 4G63. Did that have forged internals?

Hyundai/Kia use their own motors now. The only relation to Mitsubishi is the "world engine" that was developed by Hyundai, Mitsubishi, and Daimler/Chrysler... and that's really just the bottom end. The heads are different.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:23 PM   #9
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This is something I have been wanting to do with my F22 but as of right now the internals are stock and have almost 1/4 a million miles on them. Wasn't sure if I should run boost on them or not. If so I haven't seen any posts on what would be the best amount.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Just to clarify, you use the Accord fuel rail and intake manifold, but you use the DSM 450cc injectors.

For the absolute basic setup, the DSM parts to be used are:
Exhaust/turbo manifold
14b or 16g Turbo
o2 housing
Side mount intercooler (a front mount is MUCH better, though... intercoolers from Starions/Conquests or Fuso trucks have been used with success.)
BOV
450cc injectors (1st gen "blue top" injectors are safest, as all with blue tops are 450cc. 2nd gen "gray tops" have a better spray pattern, but you'll need to get them from a reliable source so you don't end up with non-turbo injectors, which can be mistaken for the 450cc pieces by an inexperienced person.)

Non-DSM parts to be used are:
PO6 ECU
Charge piping
Front mount intercooler (instead of the DSM side mount)
Oil lines
Downpipe (this will have to be custom)
Colder spark plugs

Some things may have been left out. I've never actually built a turbo car... I know a hell of a lot more than I've done, thanks to my time on this site!

With careful, diligent shopping, you could potentially build an entire DSM turbo setup, right down to the chipped P06 ECU, for about $500.
Awesome, this is the info Iv'e been curious about. Thanks a lot Deev.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeleDesign
Any questions feel free to ask, I've built my dsm several times am now pushing 49 lbs per min with a timing curveof 17 degrees at 33 psi.
From our calculations I'm near 12.5 hp per 1lb a min. as I cannot find a local awd dyno.
I have yet to learn all the ways of turbo talk.. But that sounds damn cool ahaha. When the time comes that I start my build and need help, Ill definitely give you a shout.
Thanks for all the info guys.

Last edited by SASKCB7; 01-31-2012 at 08:36 PM.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:28 PM   #11
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the 4g64 is the 2.4l with factory reliability.
The deck is taller and it has longer rods. It also came in the mighty max truck, with a few modifications, and a 4g63t head you have a factory type boosted 2.4L engine, that unlike hondas have had great success without failure in componants. Overboosting, will need better parts but so does the 4g63t.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:29 PM   #12
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This setup became popular many years ago, when these engines weren't nearly as old or worn as they are now. Then, you could potentially get a fair amount of time out of a boosted stock-block F22A. Now, the chances are a good deal less. Also, we didn't know quite as much about the F22A's weaknesses back then. We now know that the ringlands are the weak link, and will most definitely break under boost, no matter how careful you are. It may take a while, or it may happen quickly.

Accord R33 was one of the people that really popularized the DSM turbo setup on here, and he had about 200k on his F22A when he did it. It lasted until he sold the car, though I've heard that the engine was about done by the time the new owner got it.


That's the tough part... if you're going to build a cheap turbo setup out of 20 year old used DSM parts, why would you spend money upgrading your engine's internals? If you're going to spend the money to upgrade the internals, you might as well spend the money on quality new turbo parts as well.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:37 PM   #13
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^^^ agreed.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:46 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeleDesign View Post
Yes sir, had it restalled, and installed my shift kit etc... 2nd gear at 40 mph still breaks the all 4 tires loose when i punch it.

More interesting facts. Hyundia baught the rights to copy all mitsubishi's designs, and some of their cars have 6 bolt motors in them setup as na. the rods and psitons are forged. etc..... They and kia both are using the designs and every part is 100% in spec with mitsubishi, it just has a different co. stamp on it. I don't have time to give every single part and car they come on, but their are thousands of parts that are interchangeable at a much lower cost as, peope for a while looked down on those 2 manufacturers.
But Kia's new turbocharged car thats freaking awsome, what if i told you it has the same 6 bolt block as my car, just not quite as beefed up as mine is now. It'll make you start to rethink kia and hyundias platforms in a serious manor.
yea, i smog the old hyundais all the time and the 4 cylinders look identical. still both hunks of crap.

i was thinking about the 16g and i even found a few turbo setups in the junk yard.
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Old 01-31-2012, 11:49 PM   #15
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The 4G63 is an amazing engine when not abused... of course, old Hyundais are abused, as are old Mitsubishis... and the old DSMs are abused by kids that don't know how to mod a car!

The fact that any turbo DSMs are still on the road today is a testament to the engine's quality. They should ALL be blown up by now!
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Old 02-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #16
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yea just like vw corrados or any british car.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:37 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
The 4G63 is an amazing engine when not abused... of course, old Hyundais are abused, as are old Mitsubishis... and the old DSMs are abused by kids that don't know how to mod a car!

The fact that any turbo DSMs are still on the road today is a testament to the engine's quality. They should ALL be blown up by now!
They probably all have blown up by know.

Thing is, people that own and love DSM's rebuild rather then let go.

I have 3 DSM's. I have built 5 motors for myself, and 3 others for people I know.

My 2gb eclipse has blown 3 motors. I have also had it for 12 years.






Quote:
Originally Posted by KeeleDesign View Post
Any questions feel free to ask, I've built my dsm several times am now pushing 49 lbs per min with a timing curveof 17 degrees at 33 psi.
From our calculations I'm near 12.5 hp per 1lb a min. as I cannot find a local awd dyno.
See, he's built his several times now too.

Nice numbers BTW.


In my stalled 2gb, I have an hx35 setup running similar numbers.
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Old 02-06-2012, 01:59 AM   #18
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Im swapping a f22a1 in my 95phone accord and going to do the dsm setup. I was wondering what I needed to tune crome on my chipped p06
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Old 02-06-2012, 02:26 AM   #19
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you need the software dattalogger and chip burner or take it to your local tuner
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Old 02-07-2012, 03:46 PM   #20
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would this kit work? then all i would need is a chip burner?
http://www.xenocron.com/diyer-intro-...age-p-238.html

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