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Old 01-20-2010, 05:56 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accord_rider View Post
d2 springs. stock shocks.

No other comments? How does it ride? How does it handle? Is it smooth, bouncy, was understeer increased or reduced?
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:13 PM   #22
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oh my bad.

its great. understeer was definetly reduced. just took it on a roadtrip to cali and back and i loved every mile of it. (ask my wife ) but seriously though, i didnt expect it to handle/feel this good. ive had h&r and teins before and they were both bouncier. these are my favorite so far. imma upgrade to d2 1piece coilovers when i have the funds.
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Old 01-20-2010, 06:47 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by mndude07 View Post
I seriously doubt those numbers are right. That would also mean that a Tokico HP shock is too weak for a stock spring...and that isn't true.
STR.T's and Neuspeed sports should be just find. If you're in doubt, call Koni and give them the Neuspeed sport spring rates and see if they can tell you if it would be ok.

I actually JUST got off the phone with Tokico tech. I'm working on finding the damping forces for all the common shocks, so that people will be able to answer questions just like yours by looking at this thread.
Very true, I was thinking they sounded too high. I did contact Koni North America today and got some info from them. I was told that the STR.t's do have the Sport valving inside and are comparable to the koni sport (yellows) on full soft. I asked for some comparative details on the damping force between Koni STR.T's and Sports on full soft and this is what I received:

Fronts str-t is 670 bump and 3150 rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm
Front sports is 750 bump and 3000 min (full soft) rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpms

Rear str-t is 310bump and 760 rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm
Rear sport is 300 bump and 950 min (full soft) rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm

I was trying to understand this all...I understand what bump and rebound are, I also understand how this shock dyno works and what the stroke and rpm settings mean, but I dont actually understand the values for bump and rebound...what would the unit of measurement be for them? Again, I hope this is valuble content for this thread, otherwise no problem, just delete it.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:17 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by vinbon63 View Post
Very true, I was thinking they sounded too high. I did contact Koni North America today and got some info from them. I was told that the STR.t's do have the Sport valving inside and are comparable to the koni sport (yellows) on full soft. I asked for some comparative details on the damping force between Koni STR.T's and Sports on full soft and this is what I received:

Fronts str-t is 670 bump and 3150 rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm
Front sports is 750 bump and 3000 min (full soft) rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpms

Rear str-t is 310bump and 760 rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm
Rear sport is 300 bump and 950 min (full soft) rebound at 75mm stroke and 84rpm

I was trying to understand this all...I understand what bump and rebound are, I also understand how this shock dyno works and what the stroke and rpm settings mean, but I dont actually understand the values for bump and rebound...what would the unit of measurement be for them? Again, I hope this is valuble content for this thread, otherwise no problem, just delete it.

No, that is very useful, thanks. I would like to know the forces at full stiff for the yellows also though. The units are the same as a spring rate, so lbs/in. The damping force opposes the spring force, so they must be the same units. On a suspension histogram though, usually you would look at inches/second travel speed of the shock vs the force, so maybe I need to do some conversions with those strokes and rpms. Low speed damping is usually the most important thing to look at..3-4 inches/second and less. As a damper tries to change piston direction, it must first slow down, hence the lower speeds.
I love seeing info like this. Thank you. CB7tuner needs to get smarter and more technical, and its things like this that help.
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Old 02-04-2010, 03:13 PM   #25
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Here's something interesting to look at:

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/mustang/

Its for a mustang, yes, but there is alot of good info there comparatively. Notice the AGX is superior to the Illumina in that there is far less cross-talk between compression and rebound adjustments. Koni is superior though. Adjusting the knob changes the rebound with hardly any change in compression, which is what is supposed to happen. On the Illumina's however, both the compression and rebound are changed almost equivalently, which is NOT good. Notice the AGX performs similar to the Koni Sport except for adjustment position number 1, otherwise there is very little cross talk.

Since technology used is the same, and only the valvings change between applications, you could expect similar comparisons for the CB7. For that reason, I would say the AGX is a better shock than the Illumina.

Keep this in mind too: If you see this comparison of the AGX and Illumina, then think about how poor the performance of the Tokico HP must be.
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Old 02-04-2010, 04:30 PM   #26
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440/300# sleeves, Tokico Illuminas

The front springs are off a Civic... I think they may have gone a little soft. During long sweepers the car leans crazily. It's stiff enough for 8/10ths driving but way too soft for bonzai track maneuvers. It is very predictable though and definitely more fun than stock, and with these new tires I have to really drive like an ape to lose traction in any direction. I currently have NO finger gap in front with 205-55-16s and 1.5 finger gap in the rear.

I kind of want to upgrade to D2s or something with more bite.
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:06 PM   #27
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Glory, are the wheels in that pic 16s? Look a little bigger than that.
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Is there a goal you're trying to accomplish besides looking dope as hell?
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Old 02-04-2010, 05:13 PM   #28
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Glory, are the wheels in that pic 16s? Look a little bigger than that.
Lol, everyone says that. They are RSX (Type-Ss I think. They are 7" wide) wheels in 205-55-16 Goodyear RS-As. This is an old pic, the tires are actually bigger now. Debating getting the fake Type-Rs
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Old 02-05-2010, 03:35 PM   #29
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It seems Koni has several presentations, but the database won't list them, so you have to randomly guess under the path:

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/

example being:

http://www.koni-na.com/presentations/civic/
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Old 02-09-2010, 05:05 PM   #30
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Old 02-10-2010, 11:40 AM   #31
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I have both Illuminas and AGXs. The AGXs are far superior than the Illuminas.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:01 PM   #32
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I have both Illuminas and AGXs. The AGXs are far superior than the Illuminas.
You are the first person I've heard say this. Everyone I know whos had AGXs blew them. I am on VERY used Illuminas now and while they're no Konis, they work well enough and are not blown.
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Old 02-10-2010, 04:27 PM   #33
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Awesome, we have an argument going! Based of those mustang and civic graphs, I'm inclined to go with the AGX. Other than the fact that it is a drop killer, it seems to have better curves.

Keep in mind, how well a shock performs has nothing to do with whether or not it "kills" drop. Also, just because the AGX might have better looking curves does not mean that it lasts longer...it seems to be the consensus on this site that the Illumina will outlast the AGX.

However, you can see there is a large variation between the mustang and civic graphs in both crosstalk and adjustment range....so the variation for the CB7 could be just as large. If only we could get charts for the CB7 application...
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:47 AM   #34
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I'm running the eibach pro kit and agx struts/shocks. I think they're great. The drop is only MAYBE 1.5" probably more like 1.3" but according to the OP the springs are pretty stiff. I never get that slammed car "bounce" like some complain about on other suspension. I hear about lowering the car with AGXs causing them to blow - mine have around 50k on them and have been on full hardness the whole time (except for a week at full soft) and they haven't ever leaked or anything. I can take corners as fast as I want and never experience understeer or traction loss. My only concern is that I wish the drop was about 1.5-1.7".
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Old 02-14-2010, 06:17 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by mj213 View Post
I'm running the eibach pro kit and agx struts/shocks. I think they're great. The drop is only MAYBE 1.5" probably more like 1.3" but according to the OP the springs are pretty stiff. I never get that slammed car "bounce" like some complain about on other suspension. I hear about lowering the car with AGXs causing them to blow - mine have around 50k on them and have been on full hardness the whole time (except for a week at full soft) and they haven't ever leaked or anything. I can take corners as fast as I want and never experience understeer or traction loss. My only concern is that I wish the drop was about 1.5-1.7".
The Pro-kit drop isn't a very extreme drop, and the rates(even though you think they're stiff) are pretty soft really, so they probably aren't too harsh on the AGX's. A spring like the pro-kit is the sort of thing the AGX was meant to be paired with.
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Old 02-14-2010, 07:19 PM   #36
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Awesome, we have an argument going! Based of those mustang and civic graphs, I'm inclined to go with the AGX. Other than the fact that it is a drop killer, it seems to have better curves.

Keep in mind, how well a shock performs has nothing to do with whether or not it "kills" drop. Also, just because the AGX might have better looking curves does not mean that it lasts longer...it seems to be the consensus on this site that the Illumina will outlast the AGX.

However, you can see there is a large variation between the mustang and civic graphs in both crosstalk and adjustment range....so the variation for the CB7 could be just as large. If only we could get charts for the CB7 application...
Looking at the graph, my observations kind of match up; however, I had Konis with Neuspeed Sports (300/200) vs now where I have Illuminas with custom rates (440/300, basically Neuspeed Races). The best part of the Konis by far were their excellent low speed damping abilities. There is a series of bumps on the way to my parents place that really tests a suspension's range, and with the Konis it was like those bumps weren't even there. With this setup now I get some rocking and a little bottoming out.

I've found generally that at my car's height the Illuminas' low speed damping isn't enough. Mid range bump/rebound is pretty good, but high speed bump again is too weak. They have handled about 5,000 miles of some pretty brutal roads though at a very low height. AGXs would have been long gone.

Really though I should have ponied up the extra $150 for the Konis. I actually ordered them, but there was an issue with the shipping address so I cancelled the order and got these Illuminas. In retrospect that was a pretty boneheaded move as I hear Skunk2 springs with Konis is the ultimate setup (better than Races or Sports). Oh well
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Old 02-15-2010, 12:45 AM   #37
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Looking at the graph, my observations kind of match up; however, I had Konis with Neuspeed Sports (300/200) vs now where I have Illuminas with custom rates (440/300, basically Neuspeed Races). The best part of the Konis by far were their excellent low speed damping abilities. There is a series of bumps on the way to my parents place that really tests a suspension's range, and with the Konis it was like those bumps weren't even there. With this setup now I get some rocking and a little bottoming out.

I've found generally that at my car's height the Illuminas' low speed damping isn't enough. Mid range bump/rebound is pretty good, but high speed bump again is too weak. They have handled about 5,000 miles of some pretty brutal roads though at a very low height. AGXs would have been long gone.

Really though I should have ponied up the extra $150 for the Konis. I actually ordered them, but there was an issue with the shipping address so I cancelled the order and got these Illuminas. In retrospect that was a pretty boneheaded move as I hear Skunk2 springs with Konis is the ultimate setup (better than Races or Sports). Oh well
Yeah you should've waited for the Koni's for sure lol. Where did you hear Skunk2's were better? Are you talking about the coilover sleeves or the actual springs? Their springs don't drop as low as the Neuspeed springs(don't forget about the effects of lowering CG), and I haven't been able to get any info about the actual spring rate. Are they stiffer than the 485F, 300R that the neuspeed race are?
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:19 PM   #38
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I see you don't have F/F spring rates listed. According to a link on their website, both the type 1's and 2's are listed at 12 front, and 6 rear. So that comes to 672 and 336 when multiplying by 56 as per the conversion.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:24 PM   #39
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I see you don't have F/F spring rates listed. According to a link on their website, both the type 1's and 2's are listed at 12 front, and 6 rear. So that comes to 672 and 336 when multiplying by 56 as per the conversion.
Cool, thanks. I'll add those rates. I couldn't find them when I looked awhile back. They must have just put them on their site recently.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:29 PM   #40
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Cool, thanks. I'll add those rates. I couldn't find them when I looked awhile back. They must have just put them on their site recently.
Probably, It's in fine print under the FAQ's and also at the bottom of the instructions page.
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