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Old 03-14-2017, 12:39 PM   #21
deevergote
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They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.
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Old 03-14-2017, 03:40 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.
I think they only said truhart has the front struts available separate from the whole set and are 3/4 inch shorter for better travel on aggressive springs. I haven't been to that site since around 2010 probably and back then it was koni koni koni. Check out the tech page #8 and every example in it is a koni part. http://www.redshiftmotorsports.com/R...ePurchases.htm

I thought about asking if they would do a set for a cb7 but I don't track my car, they are expensive, and I guess this is kind of pointless. I just thought it was interesting
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Old 03-14-2017, 04:14 PM   #23
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Using a lathe to turn off the spring perches is actually really impressive! I like to buy blown WRX/Legacy struts when they come available to cut the housings and powder coat them for Koni inserts. This still restricts people to standard springs (which I'm fine with in the Subaru application I have), but this could be really cool to have done. It would also expand this practice to allow Outback and Forester springs to be used.

Sorry to get off topic. But yeah, Koni is always going to have my vote.
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:15 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
They don't seem to offer anything for cb7s, and the main page is talking about how great truhart is (even compared to koni). They lost me right away.
This bit of info you would probably agree with...

"When you think about what coilovers you want to purchase, please consider the heritage of what you are purchasing.* Koni has won several Formula 1 World Championship and as recently as just a couple years ago with McLaren and Lewis Hamilton!!!* Also, RedShift Motorsports has won SCCA National Championships (owner won once and a sponsored car won once).

Most "cheap" coilover systems out there are made to make a profit first and perform second, and the result is that they come from "cheap" factories....many coming from the SAME cheap factory!* The "other" suspensions look good and many people claim they are good, but the truth is that they are lesser quality than even the stock parts you take off your Honda!!

RedShift Suspensions use Koni shocks and are designed for best performance and are fully modular (using standard insert lengths and spring sizes so you can upgrade anytime)!* Get a real suspension from RedShift Motorsports!"
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Old 03-14-2017, 05:18 PM   #25
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But it seems like they did a 180 when they started offering TruHart stuff, too. The money was too good to pass up, I guess.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:15 PM   #26
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That bit gives me more faith... but yeah, I can't help but feel they're describing exactly what they've become by offering Truhart junk.
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Old 03-14-2017, 06:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
That bit gives me more faith... but yeah, I can't help but feel they're describing exactly what they've become by offering Truhart junk.
Here's some more interesting stuff. Chris from RedShift compares the truhart to koni STR.T

http://bestsuspension.com/06CivicTruhartShocks.htm

That website isn't saying truhart is the "best suspension" click home and he compares basically every popular suspension setup for the 06+ civics...

why is truhart junk? I'm ignorant when it comes to suspension...

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Old 03-14-2017, 07:05 PM   #28
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Truhart is a cheaply made brand, manufactured in Taiwan. To my knowledge, the company has no genuine suspension engineering experience. They are copycats. "Reverse engineering" is about as close as they get to any sort of "engineering". Over the years, I have seen a number of reports of Truhart (and D2) products displaying a disturbing range of quality and performance, indicating shoddy quality control practices in the company. This also likely indicates the use of low-grade materials and/or imprecise machinery.
Truhart products, like products from sister company D2, are inexpensive... and there's a reason for it.
Comparing Truhart shocks to Koni is like comparing a McDonald's burger to... well... actual food. McDonald's has "beef" and "cheese" on a bun, so they have all the necessary components to make a burger... but it is hardly on par with a REAL burger, made with quality meat, cheese, and bread. Like Truhart stuff, McDonald's burgers are also sold at a fraction of the price of a quality burger.

I also mentioned D2... which is a truly despicable company. Same manufacturer as Truhart (to my knowledge, they are the exact same company... the owner just created a new brand to cash in.) The founder of D2 is an opportunist. A businessman, no doubt... but prior to starting D2, he seems to have had absolute NO involvement in motorsports or the design and production of automotive performance parts. His past experience includes a limo service and a bubble tea shop. When D2 first emerged, they stole images of DTM race cars (predating the creation of the company by a few years). These cars displayed a logo for D2 Mannesmann, a German telecommunications company (bought out by Vodafone.) "D2 Racing", the suspension company, passed these images off as their own on the earliest versions of their website, tricking people into believing that they supplied suspension components to professionals running high-end cars in major racing events.

edit: having read updated information, it seems the guy I researched is only responsible for D2's US operations. The company began in the Netherlands in 1996, apparently. No proof other than their own websites to verify that, though. US operations began in 2002.

Sorry for the huge pics:
Here are D2 Racing lowering springs, bearing the D2 Racing logo.


Here's a D2 DTM car... from 1994.


I know that shadiness doesn't reflect on the quality of their parts... but it does reflect on the company's ethics (or lack thereof). Any company that would engage in such misleading advertising would very likely engage in sub-par manufacturing methods. Not something I would ever trust when it comes to parts that are responsible for my safety.

I have yet to meet anyone that has been able to argue effectively in favor of D2 or Truhart (or pretty much any other knockoff suspension company.) I'd honestly like to hear some intelligent, substantial defense of these companies, if it is at all possible. I honestly hate to think that the majority of the performance suspension options available for our cars are utter garbage (which is pretty much my stance right now!) Most rebuttals are along the lines of "I have them and they ride good!"
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:02 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Most rebuttals are along the lines of "I have them and they ride good!"
DAMN RIGHT. 99% of the time the answer from people is saying their crappy suspension is "good". And yes, if you had $50 sleeves and stock shocks, then yes they will seem great. But ride in a car equipped with Koni/GC (or other quality springs), KW, AMR, Fortune Auto, basically any setup with actual R&D into it, and you can easily see that the "good" suspension is only good when compared to junk. It basically follows the phrase "ignorance is bliss".


On the note of comparing TruHart (shocks) to Koni STR.T. Koni is a Dutch company. Their STR.T are their "budget" shocks, and are actually made in Argentina. They are also a fairly new offering. The difference between the STR.T and the tried-and-true Sport (Yellows) is huge. They aren't made for aggressive setups, and are more of a stock replacement shock with slightly stiffer damping....comparable to say KYB GR2/Excel-G, or the old Tokico HP/Blues. So sure, you can compare TruHart to Koni, but its not a "true" comparison of sport shocks. If you compared them to the Yellows, they'd literally obliterate TruHart in every category except price.

Also....with TruHart's shocks having a shorter stroke....its really irrelevant. Koni Yellows are not position sensitive. Meaning they perform the same at stock height, or dropped 3in. As long as they do not internally bottom out (which is why you have bump stops, to prevent that), they are completely fine. I've had friends slammed on Koni/GC and suffer no degredation in shock performance. Even if you switched to TruHarts with the shorter stroke, your bumpstops would still hit. So its really a moot point in the case for Accord suspension.

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Old 03-15-2017, 09:24 AM   #30
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Sweet, I learned some useful stuff today
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Old 03-15-2017, 11:12 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corweena View Post
DAMN RIGHT. 99% of the time the answer from people is saying their crappy suspension is "good". And yes, if you had $50 sleeves and stock shocks, then yes they will seem great. But ride in a car equipped with Koni/GC (or other quality springs), KW, AMR, Fortune Auto, basically any setup with actual R&D into it, and you can easily see that the "good" suspension is only good when compared to junk. It basically follows the phrase "ignorance is bliss".


On the note of comparing TruHart (shocks) to Koni STR.T. Koni is a Dutch company. Their STR.T are their "budget" shocks, and are actually made in Argentina. They are also a fairly new offering. The difference between the STR.T and the tried-and-true Sport (Yellows) is huge. They aren't made for aggressive setups, and are more of a stock replacement shock with slightly stiffer damping....comparable to say KYB GR2/Excel-G, or the old Tokico HP/Blues. So sure, you can compare TruHart to Koni, but its not a "true" comparison of sport shocks. If you compared them to the Yellows, they'd literally obliterate TruHart in every category except price.

Also....with TruHart's shocks having a shorter stroke....its really irrelevant. Koni Yellows are not position sensitive. Meaning they perform the same at stock height, or dropped 3in. As long as they do not internally bottom out (which is why you have bump stops, to prevent that), they are completely fine. I've had friends slammed on Koni/GC and suffer no degredation in shock performance. Even if you switched to TruHarts with the shorter stroke, your bumpstops would still hit. So its really a moot point in the case for Accord suspension.
I'm even a bit wary of Fortune Auto. They're "assembled in the United States", but the manufacturing location is undisclosed (or was when I last looked anyway). They may have legit engineering and r&d behind them (I can't confirm, but they seem better than most), but I'd like to know for sure that the materials and machining are top quality. Especially for that price. Otherwise, it's like saying Burger King is better than McDonald's because their burgers are "flame broiled". They're still the same processed crap. Can't polish a turd.
I'm not saying that Fortune Auto IS bad, just that the information necessary to prove it without a doubt is lacking.
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Old 03-15-2017, 12:57 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by oni_cb7 View Post
Sure, engineers know what they are doing when they TRY to design the car. But, the accounting department has the final say in how the car will actually be. Japan was in a recession during the 90's and a lot of car companies did not have good finances. This lead to many cars being produced cheaply and basically "designed" by the accountants. Not people I'd necessarily trust. Designers had their hands tied and were forced to cut corners and build cheap cars.

Do you really want to trust accountants to know how a car's suspension should be set up?
In my experience, OEM parts are of higher quality than about 95% of the aftermarket. This not to say OEM parts are the highest performing -- but they are typically well machined, well designed, and made of high quality materials. Any auto company has to put a lot fo R&D in a product that will literally end up in hundreds of thousands of vehicles and be expected to last decades with little to no maintenance.

Most so-called performance parts MAY perform better than OE, but the expectation of longevity is much lower. OE suspension parts are expected to last 10 years and sometimes remain in service much longer than that. How many coilover kits remain in service after 10 years?

Besides, in the 90's, Honda vehicles were vastly higher quality than pretty much anyone elses. Think about other contemporary cars from that era compared to a 1993 Accord. A Chevy Lumina? Ford Taurus? Chrysler LeBarons? These three turds were still using pushrod engines with 3-speed automatics.
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Old 03-15-2017, 01:06 PM   #33
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Nothing wrong with pushrods! (I love my ls2!)

The best aftermarket suspension manufacturers for casual street use are often oem suppliers as well. Koni, bilstein, h&r, to name a few. All can be found on high end European cars. H&R springs can be found on the Carrera GT. Truhart springs can be found on the pizza boy's "jdm" Elantra (yes, I know Hyundai is Korean. It highlights the ridiculousness of it. Though I'm sure jdm elantras exist.)
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Old 03-15-2017, 04:39 PM   #34
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Yeah sorry Deev, I'm actually a big fan of well-designed pushrod engines. It's hard to hold a candle to any of the LS-series V8's and they get good fuel economy too (I think the new Vette gets 31 mpg highway with the 7-speed manual).

Some of those old designs from the big three were horrible though. Remember the Iron Duke 2.5L that made 90 hp with micarta timing gears? Yikes!
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Old 03-15-2017, 06:50 PM   #35
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Oh yeah. There were some serious turds!
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:09 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
I'm even a bit wary of Fortune Auto. They're "assembled in the United States", but the manufacturing location is undisclosed (or was when I last looked anyway). They may have legit engineering and r&d behind them (I can't confirm, but they seem better than most), but I'd like to know for sure that the materials and machining are top quality. Especially for that price. Otherwise, it's like saying Burger King is better than McDonald's because their burgers are "flame broiled". They're still the same processed crap. Can't polish a turd.
I'm not saying that Fortune Auto IS bad, just that the information necessary to prove it without a doubt is lacking.
I see where you're coming from. I will say, I appreciate their clarity when they say "assembled in USA" when they could easily lie and say they are made here. I have a good friend with a set of their stuff. Construction wise, they don't look any different than other stuff, but I assume its not going to be cheaply milled aluminum. Their internals are far superior, on the fact alone they are rebuildable. All their setups are individually shock dyno'd before going out. They also have distinct Generations....the Gen 5 were the ones over the past few years....they are just now releasing the Gen 6s.

They also have a pretty cool trade in program for current owners of their products....you can send FA you older gen coilovers, and they will rebuild them with the new Gen 6 internals for what is a very good price. So, while their product pieces may not be produced here, they do seem to have MUCH higher standards and do take strides to push past pretty much 95% of the other crap in the market.



Just a few weeks ago too, on their Instagram Story, one day they pretty much posted their assembly process all the way through. Was a pretty cool inside look of how everything is put together.....and shows they aren't just getting stuff shipped to them from Taiwan all ready to go. They showed details such a filling the shocks with gas, all the seals and valving, etc. Was a great little 3min insight in to the whole process.
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Old 03-16-2017, 02:00 PM   #37
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That does indeed inspire a good deal more confidence. I may not put them on par with brands like KW (who has supplied suspensions for AMG vehicles), but I'd say they're likely to be considerably better than 90% of the stuff on the market for us now.
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Old 03-23-2017, 04:01 AM   #38
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redshift Motorsports price break down

I emailed chris over at RedShift Motorsports and got some pricing for suspension.

Truhart with tien springs total cost is:

187$ Truhart shocks

189$ tien springs

315$ assembly, parts and labor

Total 724$
--------------------------------------------------
Koni yellows with h&r springs Total cost is:

$550 Koni Sport shocks

$227 H&R Sport springs

$315 Full Assembly Parts and Labor.

$1092 shipped.
---------------------------------------------------------------

Assembly price breakdown

Front Assembly Parts:

Moog front mount kit $30 each

Moog front mount bushing kit $17

KYB boot/bumpstop kit $14

Total for each corner $61 so $122 for both fronts


Rear Assembly Parts:

Moog mount kit $21 each

Moog mount bushing kit $18 each

KYB boot/bumpstop kit $17 each

Moog lower spring isolator $8 each

Total each rear corner 64$ or 128$ for both rears

$25 assembly fee and $40 shipping cost.* So, 122+128+25+40=$315

Last edited by kseriescivic; 03-23-2017 at 04:04 AM.
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Old 03-23-2017, 10:54 AM   #39
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Good deal! If you were planning on replacing that stuff anyway, assembly is basically free!

I still shudder at truhart, but koni & h&r are where it's at. Totally worth an extra $350! (Plus camber kit, plus alignment, possibly axles and ball joints...)
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Old 03-23-2017, 12:12 PM   #40
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My cb9 wagon has been rolling on function and form full coilovers for about 2yrs now rides great
Pretty much what everyone says, always gets good reviews.
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