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    #16
    Originally posted by mr_naler View Post
    At the point when he was threatening to fight me, this was running through my head. Though, after he got in my face and started that BS chest bump thing some people do before a fight, I considered this as an act of aggression, but not warranting return action, but rather a higher level of awareness. I tried to think what I would do if certain things happened from this point. On one hand, I would never want to fire my weapon inside a public building like Walmart that always has so many people, but on the other hand, I felt a duty to protect my brother above that. However, my father was the hand to hand combat instructor for the Marine Police of north Alabama and taught me how to defend myself, as well as taking MMA classes for a while. This in junction with being a rowdy teenager who has been in several "fist fights", I am comfortable defending myself in such a manner. My concern then was to protect my firearm if such a situation presented itself. This concern was alleviated when I noticed his friend trying to defuse the situation, and at least get us outside. At this point he noticed the pistol on my hip and no further action was required, and my only thought was to get out of there before anything had an opportunity to start up again. At which point my brother and I left the premises.

    In retrospect it's difficult to say exactly what I would have done. There are so many variables:

    "Did he have a weapon?"
    "Is his friend going to assist him in an altercation?"
    "What danger does the situation impose on my brother?"
    "Are other people in danger by the altercation?"
    etc.

    There is certainly no blanket response I would have used.
    Valid points. There are several things to think about in this situation. First, you were a group of 2 vs a group of 2. He was shorter and you've had some fight training. If shit went down and you used your gun, you may have a hard time justifying why you were in fear of your life or serious bodily harm.

    Now, if he pulled out a knife, that's much easier to justify.

    Had you been alone in walmart and he was a group of 2+ that'd also be easier to justify.

    You, alone, on a dark dead end street and you meet him and his buddy, easier to justify.

    However, you have a duty to retreat where possible. Drawing and firing your weapon is a last resort. You don't take your gun out unless you're 99% sure you're going to use it.

    In this case, things worked out. Other options would have been to ask walmart for a security guard to walk you out.

    Originally posted by GeoffM View Post
    If it came to the gun, couldn't you just hover your handle over it like the cops do? If he hadn't noticed it before that, he sure would've then.
    And then what? If you're threatening a person by taking a cowboy quick draw stance you're escalating the situation too rapidly. First step would have been to yell something like "get away from me" or something to a). alert people to the situation and b). show that you're trying your best to stop the situation.
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      #17
      Originally posted by GeoffM View Post
      Just curious, what word are your stars indicating? Is it bitch?
      It is a derogatory name for an ignorant person, starting with the letter "n'.
      _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Pandemic View Post
        What would you have done had he started actively fighting you?
        That's one reason I choose not to carry a gun. I wouldn't be prepared to use it.

        Originally posted by Pandemic View Post
        However, you have a duty to retreat where possible. Drawing and firing your weapon is a last resort. You don't take your gun out unless you're 99% sure you're going to use it.
        This. Guns are meant for shooting people, and if your aim is true, killing them. No other purpose. If that weapon was drawn, you should have been seconds away from needing to fire it.



        mr_naler, that guy was clearly instigating, and MAY have been a serious threat... but I do feel that you drew your weapon too early. It worked, and that is good... but the guy may have drawn a weapon of his own, and maybe his friend as well. Then it'd be a gunfight, and your brother could've gotten caught in the crossfire. YOU would have been the one to escalate the situation by drawing your weapon, had that occurred.






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          #19
          Originally posted by Pandemic View Post
          Valid points. There are several things to think about in this situation. First, you were a group of 2 vs a group of 2. He was shorter and you've had some fight training. If shit went down and you used your gun, you may have a hard time justifying why you were in fear of your life or serious bodily harm.

          Now, if he pulled out a knife, that's much easier to justify.

          Had you been alone in walmart and he was a group of 2+ that'd also be easier to justify.

          You, alone, on a dark dead end street and you meet him and his buddy, easier to justify.

          However, you have a duty to retreat where possible. Drawing and firing your weapon is a last resort. You don't take your gun out unless you're 99% sure you're going to use it.

          In this case, things worked out. Other options would have been to ask walmart for a security guard to walk you out.
          He was bigger than me. Note I said he was 2" taller than me in my second post. His friend was much larger, maybe 6'2" 220. My brother is 18, and about the size of the guy who was threatening me. I was completely confident in not using my pistol unless: a, he had a weapon, or b, my brother was in danger.

          All in all, the situation resolved well, but also made me realize the gravity of the responsibility of carrying. It's all good until you realize you have to make split second decisions, which I am confident I could have, but it was humbling to actually experience it.

          Walmart does not have a regular security staff. I was reasonably sure there was no longer a threat from them, so I was not concerned by this.
          _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by deevergote View Post
            That's one reason I choose not to carry a gun. I wouldn't be prepared to use it.



            This. Guns are meant for shooting people, and if your aim is true, killing them. No other purpose. If that weapon was drawn, you should have been seconds away from needing to fire it.



            mr_naler, that guy was clearly instigating, and MAY have been a serious threat... but I do feel that you drew your weapon too early. It worked, and that is good... but the guy may have drawn a weapon of his own, and maybe his friend as well. Then it'd be a gunfight, and your brother could've gotten caught in the crossfire. YOU would have been the one to escalate the situation by drawing your weapon, had that occurred.
            I never drew my firearm. I am not sure what I said to imply this, but I can assure you it was securely holstered the entire time, until I got home. I would never draw without intent to shoot.
            _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

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              #21
              Yeah, that 80 year old greeter isn't going to help much if he walks you to your car!






              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by mr_naler View Post
                I never drew my firearm. I am not sure what I said to imply this, but I can assure you it was securely holstered the entire time, until I got home. I would never draw without intent to shoot.
                Ah, ok. I suppose "open carry" made me think you had it in hand. I understand now. In that case, much of what I said doesn't apply!






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                  #23
                  Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                  Yeah, that 80 year old greeter isn't going to help much if he walks you to your car!
                  Idk man, that cane he was rocking looked pretty intimidating. Haha

                  Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                  Ah, ok. I suppose "open carry" made me think you had it in hand. I understand now. In that case, much of what I said doesn't apply!
                  ha no no. I just meant as in it was holstered on my hip, but wasn't concealed. I get some looks sometimes, but usually just because I am the youngest one around here by like 20 years.
                  _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

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                    #24
                    Yeah, holstered and visible is one thing. Drawing it in an effort to scare someone is another. If you drew it without being 100% prepared to fire it, to kill the guy, then you'd have drawn it for the wrong reason. But if it was merely noticed on your hip (were you intentionally showing it to them?) then that's much better.

                    It's like noticing that a man is wearing a martial arts jacket with "Master ****" embroidered on the front, as opposed to a guy dropping into a stance and making Bruce Lee noises. Both can say "I'm a martial artist", but only the first one is an acceptable deterrent, and that one is less likely to be seen as an act of aggression... thus escalating the fight.






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                      #25
                      i think he has an open carry license or something.

                      In texas the rednecks want to pass a law that ANYONE can open carry. Felon or not. And of course they want to bring back this strange law that if I wantz your house or boat or car and I'z haz more firepowerz then Iz take or we death match. Stupid hill billy's huh ?

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                        #26
                        I would hope he has an open carry license. I don't know the man very well, but nothing about him suggests he'd be stupid enough to wander around in public with an exposed firearm on his hip that wasn't legally allowed to be there!






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                          #27
                          This thread makes me want a gun more than I already do. Have you ever worked around redneck mechanics? All they do is talk about guns!

                          Originally posted by stewie View Post
                          Why do you need to have a pistol on you while your shopping at walmart???
                          Have you been to Wal-Mart lately?!?

                          Originally posted by Pandemic View Post
                          Because bad things happen to good people?

                          hate to say it, but that's one thing I absolutely hate about Canada. Civilians here have no power to protect themselves from grievous bodily harm or death. Citizens can not even carry pepper spray or tasers.

                          A man in Ontario saw a guy outside his house with a Molotov cocktail lit and ready to throw it into this house. He went outside and fired warning shots. He didn't even shoot the guy and yet he's on trial right now for a list of offenses. Who knows what happened to the real criminal.

                          Why do you need a pistol? Self preservation. The likelihood of anyone ever using their firearm in self defense is statistically low but it does happen. In fact, I'll bet I can find 3 or 4 cases already in 2012.

                          As for your other questions, in a way open carrying is a status symbol. However it's the status of every law abiding citizen in the US. Carrying a firearm is exercising one's right. There are millions of people who carry weapons every day and you only hear of the extreme cases where there's a school shooting that puts firearms in a negative spotlight. CNN and other major media rarely ever covers people who defended their lives from home invasion or other self defense stories.

                          Make your dick bigger? I'm all about having a serious talk about this issue but don't be a douchebag.

                          And "are you ever planning on using it to kill someone? YES. You'll notice I strongly advised him to seek training before carrying. For anyone who is not safety conscious, carrying can be a liability. Your name is attached to ever round fired. However, if you're in a severe life and death situation, you better not hesitate to fire at that person who is attacking you. Not only fire, but fire until he's no longer a threat.

                          It doesn't matter how well the police do their jobs or how safe of an area you live in. Shit happens. One of my favorite sayings is "When seconds matter, the police are only minutes away."
                          + fucking 1. Im not one to "exercise my rights" (although I know "I should"--trust me, I hear it all the time.) but this post is SPOT ON. Carrying a gun, first and foremost is a right. I carry it because I can. Because I was given the right to. Do I plan on using it? Absolutely not. But Im trained in using it, just in case.

                          "Id rather have it and not need it than need it and not have it."

                          Is it THAT bad in my "neighborhood"..? Yes and no. That's where the line begins to blur. If everyone has the "right" to carry a gun, they can. Or will. Unfortunately, some people arent mentally capable, or simply lack the self-control, to respect the rules, laws, and regulations of this country. They become a liability when they exercise said right and use a weapon to do bad or harm to others. That's when I exercise my right to carry, and use, said weapon. If they threaten me or try to do harm to me, weapon or not, and I feel threatened, I will exercise that right.

                          This point is an even grey-er area. I wouldnt draw my weapon at the first sign of hostility. Im going to give the person a fair chance and let them calm down or go away. If they persist, threaten me with violence, attempt to physically harm me then, yes, I will make them aware that I am in possession a firearm. Which, is essentially, leaving the next move up to them. If they choose to continue attempts at violence or I feel threatened in such a manner, I will fire.

                          I know guns are intended only to kill, but they dont necessarily have to. Depending on the situation, Id only fire in the direction of said threat or aim for a limb or non-vital part of their person. Now if it came down to a life or death, "them or me" situation, yes, Id fire until they were no longer a threat. Be it by their own escape or even end of their life. THAT is when Id let the law take over. The police would come and there'd be big show and all that, but in the end, I felt my life was in danger and I felt threatened enough to use deadly force.

                          I wouldnt carry a gun to showboat. Saying, "Hey everyone! Watch out, I have a gun!" is not smart. Granted it is a right, but I dont want everyone knowing I have it. It puts people at risk.

                          Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                          Guns are meant for shooting people, and if your aim is true, killing them. No other purpose. If that weapon was drawn, you should have been seconds away from needing to fire it.
                          "Guns dont kill people. People kill people. The gun just helps."


                          Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                          Yeah, that 80 year old greeter isn't going to help much if he walks you to your car!



                          Stewie, I see your point. It's sad that we cant all get along or that, even in a grocery store, the threat may be present enough to warrant the need, or use, of a firearm. It sucks but what can you do? It happens because people have no respect for the law or regard for human life. It's selfishness at it's best, really. Which, I guess is, essentially, survival of the fittest. But this isnt a contest. People shouldnt have to be worried about whether or not they're gonna need a gun today. There's no reason for it. In today's society, it shouldnt be that way, but it is. Even when these laws were written; were things really THAT bad??? The people who formed this country were, essentially, treasonists. They didnt like the way Europe was being ran so they fleed and saught out to make their own nation, regardless of the rules of their old homeland. That's what those irresponsible people are doing as well if you think about it. They dont like the rules of this country so they're doing whatever they want. Sadly, this country wont allow that. If you dont like the rules here, you are more than welcome to leave but if you break those rules, while here, you're going to jail.

                          Anyway--on point--carrying a gun is a right. Most people dont feel the need or threat to exercise that right. Even if they believe society is a dangerous place, they simply choose not to resort to violence. I may not exercise that right but, unfortunately(??) Im on the side that says violence only begets violence; if you're violent towards me, Im gonna be violent towards you. I'll just give you a fair chance and warning to cease said actions. If you dont, then I'll resort to violence. It's not survival of the fittest. It shouldnt be and it doesnt have to be. But, in some cases, such as this, it becomes just that. You choose to become a threat to me or make me feel as though my life is in danger. At such point, it becomes survival of the fittest. I feel it's either you or me, and I'll do everything in my power to ensure that it's me, not you, who comes out victorious. Call it what you will, but I value my life FAR more than I value yours.


                          KeepinItClean | EnviousFilms | NoBigDeal | YET2BSCENE | .· ` ' / ·. | click here.
                          Originally posted by Jarrett
                          Is there a goal you're trying to accomplish besides looking dope as hell?

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                            #28
                            I definitely wasn't showing it off to them intentionally. I have been carrying like that for a few days. His friend was just in a better position to see it. That guy that was making the threats was bowed up standing chest to chest. Haha
                            _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by 8ball View Post
                              i think he has an open carry license or something.

                              In texas the rednecks want to pass a law that ANYONE can open carry. Felon or not. And of course they want to bring back this strange law that if I wantz your house or boat or car and I'z haz more firepowerz then Iz take or we death match. Stupid hill billy's huh ?
                              In many states, including Alabama, you don't have to have a license to open carry. Only for concealed carry. As long as you legally own the firearm, you can open carry. I do, however, have a concealed carry permit.
                              _C'est La Vie, C'est La Mort_

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                                #30
                                It's best to have the CC though. That way, you can open carry but in the even that a cop or other law enforcement agent feels that it's "concealed" you have the paperwork for it.

                                Im just surprised Wal-Mart allows it. Most places these days wont allow them, even with a permit.


                                KeepinItClean | EnviousFilms | NoBigDeal | YET2BSCENE | .· ` ' / ·. | click here.
                                Originally posted by Jarrett
                                Is there a goal you're trying to accomplish besides looking dope as hell?

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