RIP AV6's and VTEC

['93CB7Ex]

o fuck that lol

[deevergote]

I can't imagine the engineering nightmare that type of setup must be to ensure proper balance!

[owequitit]

Well Honda has killed the V6 for the 2018 Accord.

http://www.autonews.com/article/2017...medium=twitter

I'm a little upset about that, but it is getting a 306 hp Type-R like engine to replace the V6 AND it will come in a manual.

VTEC, as we know it has also seen the end of it's days as it has been replaced by turbochargers. Which is also kind of a good thing, but I will definitely miss VTEC kicking in, yo.

This will be the official end of VTEC as we know it.

The new engine DOES have VTEC, but it is only on the exhaust side. There is no intake VTEC because it is "less effective" on boosted engines (which is a lie if you have ever seen a DOHC VTEC dyno chart). It is probably just in keeping with lower cost and a "flat" torque curve. It will also have dual VTC.

That said, it ain't gonna have 306HP. It will have a smaller turbo than the Type-R, be tuned for 87 Octane gas, and will most likely have myriad other changes to make it less powerful, cheaper to build and not a Type-R engine. I expect (and most estimates from car magazines agree) that it will have around the same power as the current V6, but with "more torque" and similar performance. Can't decide if it would be worth the loss of character, even if it does have more torque. The J35 is a fuckin' sweet engine and really is the last vestige of Honda's most successful era. Going forward they will essentially be a clone of everyone else. Not the technology leading Honda I grew up with. Not the same Honda that literally wowed the entire market over and over by doing things that people said couldn't be done, and making them elegant, cheap, simple and reliable at the same time.

[owequitit]

Small displacement, direct injection, turbocharged engines are the future anyway. It's crazy the .5L increase in displacement can net 100hp! Personally, I'm not sad to see vtec go if they're replacing it with snails.

Totally different engines. One is a small bore, long stroke engine based on the L series in the Fit and the other is a square stroke/bore engine design evolved from the K-series. It is also running nearly 24PSI of boost stock.

[owequitit]

i own a 2014 6/6. its a nice car with fancy shit inside and out with some ass. BUT, id trade it in if i could get a 2.0/6mt in a coupe. FBO/tune it would probably make more power than a CTR does stock. but they probably change pistons or cams or something to make it less power probably rate it at the same power as the outgoing j35y1/2. just like they rated the new civic si power like the outgoing model.

The other big announcement is that there will be no coupe.

[deevergote]

No coupe is definitely sad. Although, that MIGHT be opening the door for a Prelude revival! I'll gladly trade the Accord coupe for a new Prelude. The Prelude was originally axed because the Accord got to be too close a competitor, while being more practical. At least that's what I read wayyy back when it happened.

I agree that a turbo 4 will never have the same character as a V6. I guess for fuel economy requirements (even if only to say "look, we're doing something!) the 4 cylinder makes sense. Still, it's sad to see such a great V6 go away. I wonder if the Pilot, Odyssey, etc... are going to retain the J, or if they'll be getting turbo 4s as well. If those cars retain the V6, then Honda won't be abandoning it altogether. The 10th gen Accord may be the only V6-less generation since the CB, once the buyers let their wants be known.

[CyborgGT]

I really don't see Honda hanging onto a V6 even for the SUVs/Ody/Ridgeline. With the German big 3 all having 2.0 liter SUVs, and the fact that Honda never focused on big towing torque like the American-market trucks, there's no reason for them to have a big engine if they can make that "same torque as the V6" with the turbo 4.

Also, an official teaser sketch:

Honda will broadcast the 2018 Honda Accord’s unveiling live on YouTube at 11:00 am EST on July 14. Stay tuned for more details on the next-gen Accord.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/2018-...debut-july-14/

[owequitit]

So the Accord 2.0T is essentially a CTR engine with a smaller turbo, lower compression, etc. That makes sense given that they wanted faster boost response, and it didn't need to be a crazy top end engine.

Hondata just released their tuning results for it and it only gains about 10-20HP up top, but gains up to 100 lb/ft in the midrange.

The Stage 1 tune makes it roughly equivalent to a VW 2.0T Stage 1 APR tune with about 280WHP and 330 lb-ft. Their Stage 2 adds just a little HP, but brings torque to nearly 377 lb-ft.



I haven't had a chance to drive one, but it has potential. The rest of the execution on the car is FANTASTIC. Highest quality I have seen in an Accord since the 4th or 5th gen. The infotainment is fantastic, and the Touring is LOADED. Haven't had a chance to drive a 2.0T yet, but it is basically a boosted K20 block, so it pulls hard and sounds good.

Will it replace the V6? Numerically, yes. Character wise? It's the same debate that every other manufacturer's brands have had. I do wish the Sport 2.0T 6MT were a little faster stock (it is substantially slower than the V6-6 in instrumented testing) was equipped like a Touring. The 10AT is actually a little bit faster than the V6 (both AT and MT), but it leverages a lot more gearing to do it.

Overall, the car looks good in person, but some of the details are odd.

[Jarrett]

I'm reading that the Sport 2.0T with the 6MT will do the quarter mile in 14.8 seconds, as opposed to the heavier Touring 2.0T with the 10-speed auto being able to do a 14.3.


I didn't see any data from Hondata as to what their expected quarter mile times were.

[HenRoc]

I could never see why a lot of people hate on the car, majority of which came from AV6 owners who completely shunned it because Honda opted not to stick a V6 in this newer generation, and I really like it, is it different?

Absolutely. And I love the fact that they went back to what made them a house hold name in the first place.

4 cylinders.

Not to mention a majority of the Accord owners were ones that picked up 4 cylinder models so it only made sense. I am interested to see what other tuning companies come up with since it wouldnt take much to retool that motor to perform like its CTR counterpart.


A lot of flack was given especially from the 9th gen guys.

[owequitit]

I'm reading that the Sport 2.0T with the 6MT will do the quarter mile in 14.8 seconds, as opposed to the heavier Touring 2.0T with the 10-speed auto being able to do a 14.3.


I didn't see any data from Hondata as to what their expected quarter mile times were.

I think I have seen some 1/4 mile data on the AT that puts it slightly ahead of the old car, but yes, the MT is definitely slower.

[owequitit]

I could never see why a lot of people hate on the car, majority of which came from AV6 owners who completely shunned it because Honda opted not to stick a V6 in this newer generation, and I really like it, is it different?

Absolutely. And I love the fact that they went back to what made them a house hold name in the first place.

4 cylinders.

Not to mention a majority of the Accord owners were ones that picked up 4 cylinder models so it only made sense. I am interested to see what other tuning companies come up with since it wouldnt take much to retool that motor to perform like its CTR counterpart.


A lot of flack was given especially from the 9th gen guys.

That isn't completely fair either.

First, the V6 offers a LOT of advantages that a 4 banger will never match. Especially boosted vs NA. In fact, if you look at dynos of the J series V6 Accords, their torque curve is VASTLY flatter than this new engine. It's also disappointing how we are being told "better than the V6", "more torque than the V6", etc. and it is slower or equal?

Second, I tend to agree that 4 banger made Honda a name, but that was because they used 4 bangers to do things that other companies couldn't technologically. That is not the case here. There is really nothing here that VW, BMW, MB etc haven't already done. So IMO, it isn't the same because Honda isn't leading the technological march like they used to.

Third, I am not a fan of the MMC models, but the 9th gen Accord was one of the best looking Hondas to ever come along. The new one is a little weird. I appreciate the good things, but I also see the not so good.

[Bunta]

VTEC in my opinion was a means to an end. It gave you a sporty performance if you wanted to drive aggressively but if you were just putting around town you'd still have an economical car that could idle and get good emissions and mpg. All of this can be had with turbocharged engines of a similar size (or even smaller) engine. VTEC in the Accords was never really the same as VTEC in cars like the ITR/CTR/Si. If they are turbocharging the Accord I think that incorporating VTEC is more trouble than it's worth.

[owequitit]

VTEC in my opinion was a means to an end. It gave you a sporty performance if you wanted to drive aggressively but if you were just putting around town you'd still have an economical car that could idle and get good emissions and mpg. All of this can be had with turbocharged engines of a similar size (or even smaller) engine. VTEC in the Accords was never really the same as VTEC in cars like the ITR/CTR/Si. If they are turbocharging the Accord I think that incorporating VTEC is more trouble than it's worth.

Of course VTEC was a means to an end. That said, they were able to do what nobody else had been able to do (despite many trying). In the end, it flattened the torque curve over a wider range of operating circumstances.

That said, my J35 has a rather large and much flatter torque curve that pretty much extends from less than 2000 all the way to just shy of 6000. With the old variable intake manifolds, the J series kept the torque about 500RPM longer. And no, the SOHC VTEC was not the same, as say, my K20Z3 but it does provide tangible benefits.

Those benefits also apply directly to turbo engines, because they increase volumetric efficiency. This is why the Type-R and Accord still have exhaust VTEC. Also, if you look at the outputs of DOHC VTEC engines, the intake VTEC does help, but not as much as say on an NA engine.

However, Honda simply isn't really leading the industry IMO as all of the technology on the CTR and Accord turbo has already been done. Don't get me wrong, they are excellent executions, but they don't say "hey, we are Honda and we can do things that you can't." The 2.0T is very equivalent to the VW EA888 while being a little revvier and a little more refined.

Like I said, I can see both sides. The V6 is a screamer that pulls like a freight train everywhere, it gets great MPG, it sounds wonderful and it has instantaneous throttle response. It is also as smooth as velvet. To be honest, it is the last bastion of "revvers" from Honda, which is perhaps why people are upset about it.

That said, the turbo engines are very stout, will easily make power, sound really good for a turbo four and still pull pretty good at the top. I don't hate them.

[CyborgGT]

http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2...ign=mp-jan2018

Acura has announced it is working on a new turbocharged V6 engine and will revive the Type S name on several products going forward.

The announcement was made today during a press conference at the 2018 North American International Auto Show in Detroit. The turbocharged V6 will be exclusive to Acura products and will also be paired with the latest version of Acura’s ‘Super Handling All-Wheel Drive’ system, which debuted on the 2019 RDX this week. It’s not clear if that means an RDX Type S is coming, but considering the market’s current penchant for crossovers, it wouldn’t be such a bad idea.

The Type S badge was last used on the 2008 Acura TL. That model variant featured performance chassis tuning and a slightly more powerful version of the 3.5-liter VTEC V6, in addition to other track-ready add-ons such as performance tires and better brakes. We’re expecting similar equipment to denote future type Type S models.

In addition to Type S vehicles, Acura will also introduce more A-Spec sports styling models going forward. These will include a 2019 model year TLX A-Spec, which will launch this spring with a 2.4-liter four-cylinder, along with an RDX A-Spec to launch in the middle of this year.



“We have made a major commitment to Acura to bring each element of Precision Crafted Performance to life through a new generation of products,” said American Honda CEO Toshiaki Mikoshiba. “Acura will pursue a unique powertrain strategy that underscores the brand’s rightful place as the performance division of Honda.”

It’s not yet clear when the first new Type S model will arrive, but Acura says the vehicles will begin to roll out over the “coming years.” It doesn’t unreasonable to assume that we’ll see the first vehicle before 2020, but considering how long it took the NSX to come to market, that prediction may prove to be a bit ambitious.

I just hope we get a turbo V6 SH-AWD wagon out if this.