Troubleshooting lean condition on turbo H22

[93redcb7]

Thank you Sir



Appreciate the reply. I was associating the temp with a failing O2. ECT sensor was replaced, I found the other one to be a bit off. But this would of maybe read 30F off. All other questions are valid and relative and give me some items to test. Thanks.

- Grounds in the region are solid.
- I haven't checked the injector pulse or fuel pressure when it happens because I didn't want to harm the engine. (and i'm not sure how to check injector pulse, doubt I have the proper scan tools)

- The alternator needs to be replaced. (original ALT and has been leaked on and cleaned, etc). Shows proper voltage with car on.

- Injector resistor box, was actually moved behind the fender. Looking at the manual i don't see any ground for the box itself and the injectors are grounded through the ECU.

But your other suggestions need to be tested. But first thing is first, make the problem return. And I'm assuming as soon as the engine warms up the problem will return and I'll take some vids. But I have to wait until it's not -13F outside. Should be soon.

does your ECU read your o2 from your wideband or your factory o2?

[toycar]

-13F, holy shizzle that's cold as a mofo


So something is provoking fuel to cut when the ecu otherwise thinks it is being delivered, resulting in lean issue.

Whatever that is causing this, is specific to engine temps. Basically what I am saying is that you cannot make it go lean when the engine/coolant are cold, correct?


Have you verified the injector box itself is still within spec?

should ohm out between 5-7 ohms at the injector if I remember right

Once the lean condition is present, what happens when you feather the peddle?

Does it react at all? Or just stumble and eventually die?

Have you inspected your main relay for faults? The main relay can impact injector firing also.




I am honestly feeling like something is influencing your injectors not to fire, and am wondering if the grounds to your ecu could be improved, if your resistor box is bad or failing or something to that affect. My guy is leaning towards injectors are not firing for whatever reason. Now we just need to figure out why. Can you audibly confirm with a long flat head screw driver that the injectors are opening/closing? You should be able to hear them when you touch a long screw driver to the injector and put your ear to the other side.


I'd bet that something is causing your injectors not to fire.

[Raf99]

does your ECU read your o2 from your wideband or your factory o2?

My understanding is that closed loop is from the Wideband and open loop was O2. Which also is why I thought O2.

-13F, holy shizzle that's cold as a mofo

So something is provoking fuel to cut when the ecu otherwise thinks it is being delivered, resulting in lean issue.

Whatever that is causing this, is specific to engine temps. Basically what I am saying is that you cannot make it go lean when the engine/coolant are cold, correct?

Have you verified the injector box itself is still within spec?
should ohm out between 5-7 ohms at the injector if I remember right
Once the lean condition is present, what happens when you feather the peddle?
Does it react at all? Or just stumble and eventually die?
Have you inspected your main relay for faults? The main relay can impact injector firing also.

I am honestly feeling like something is influencing your injectors not to fire, and am wondering if the grounds to your ecu could be improved, if your resistor box is bad or failing or something to that affect. My guy is leaning towards injectors are not firing for whatever reason. Now we just need to figure out why. Can you audibly confirm with a long flat head screw driver that the injectors are opening/closing? You should be able to hear them when you touch a long screw driver to the injector and put your ear to the other side.

I'd bet that something is causing your injectors not to fire.

Ya, too cold to have the garage door open! But I agree on the injectors. The ECU ground i specifically know where that is and made sure it was bare metal. The resistor box I'll have to check, this requires taking the bumper off, headlights out, and fender off

"Whatever that is causing this, is specific to engine temps. Basically what I am saying is that you cannot make it go lean when the engine/coolant are cold, correct? "
- The trend is cold, no problems. Warms up and stalls when returning to idle with a lean condition. Get's worse really quick to the point where the car won't start.

"Have you verified the injector box itself is still within spec?
should ohm out between 5-7 ohms at the injector if I remember right
Once the lean condition is present"
- See above...

"what happens when you feather the peddle?
Does it react at all? Or just stumble and eventually die?"
- It recovers, but is not happy. Spitting, sputtering, I usually shut it off shortly after this.

"Have you inspected your main relay for faults? The main relay can impact injector firing also. "
- Have not..


But let's slow down here. What I'm going to do is setup 3 cameras on the cluster, gauge pod, and laptop/Hondata. Start the car and let it warm up and hopefully merge these 3 vids into one, although i don't have software todo this with...

And I still want to get an Alternator for it and a new battery. Anyone know a good Alternator place to buy online?

[Rilas]

Can't you get your alternator rebuilt somewhere local? Might be cheaper for you up there in Canada.

[Raf99]

Can't you get your alternator rebuilt somewhere local? Might be cheaper for you up there in Canada.

Maybe, like turning down rotors people don't do that here anymor, time for new though. I've had a few PS leaks on to it, and have taken it apart to clean it myself prior. Its old, dirty, etc. I'll just buy new. I was hoping to stay away from amazon, etc. Maybe I'll check out RockAuto, etc.

Have some patience for me folks, waiting for warm weather and looking into everything folks mentioned.

[93redcb7]

ECU only has 1 spot for o2 readings, its 1 or the other

[Raf99]

Should be a setting in the software too?

[93redcb7]

Should be a setting in the software too?

yes somewhere

[toycar]

O2 sensor is likely in closed loop/closed loop advanced

and for that matter, initial startup = open loop / car warmed up usually closed loop @idle

perhaps there IS an issue with your O2

[Raf99]

Still waiting for a nice day here, we got hit with another snow storm again. I was thinking today that someone mentioned the main relay. Has anyone heard of the main relay failing as the car gets hotter? (I've heard of them failing on hot days, but not when the car gets hotter)

[Raf99]

Well today i started the car and got two good videos. These videos are after I let the car warm up. The car starts no problem, idles fine, 14.7A/F, .... a normal car. 14.5V on the battery with the car running, good fuel pressure, no "spitting or sputtering". The issue is when the car is hot and you let off the throttle it doesn't want to "recover" quickly at idle. The hotter it gets the worse. The time it spends in 15+A/F is when it wants to die...... eventually the recovery is no longer possible or it hangs out in that condition for longer periods of time. I'm also not sure about the injector ground, that will take a lot of work to check but ... part of the plan. I'm hoping to start the car another warmer day and really make it stall out. But hope you get the idea.
Oh, and I ordered an alternator for the car too.

Warmed up / gauge pod / rev engine.


Warmed up / hondata - Not the same date/time, but another good example


Closed Loop / Advanced Hondata

[93redcb7]

actually looks like your IACV might be dieing..

[Raf99]

actually looks like your IACV might be dieing..

Kind of agreed, but a broken IAC is more of a low idle / fast idle situation. As you can see my idle is just fine (while the car spits and sputters). I think you would see symptoms reported on this page.

wouldn't we see that reflected on the rpm gauge?
wouldn't we see the symptoms all the time?

[Raf99]

That video with the graph really sucks. I guess the issue is best summed up in these pics. We see a perfectly idle car with A/F, ECT , S.trim, etc on the left. I blip the trottle and it really can't find itself again for a while.

So here we see the ECU realizing the fuel delivery is not adequate (or too much air) and starts to increate the S.Trim to compensate. But then it's too much and we are rich, so it removes S.Trim. So after returning to idle the data is telling me that there is too much air. But before the throttle blip it was just fine, implies there is no major air leak which is "fixing" itself.


- we see injectors spike and then shutoff, turn back on to catch the car as the rpm returns to idle
- ignition spikes briefly after returning to idle, calibrating I believe and trying to bring the A/F back to normal. Notice that it doesn't help...
- what's interesting is that after the A/F spike drops off (0.07) there is no change in INJ, IGN, or TPS. Just the S.Trim slowely increasing.






Jeeesh, all this data make me think that a rubber hose is heating up and when I come off the throttle it can't handle the extreme suction and leakes air for 3-5 seconds. As pressure drops it closes the leak. The warmer the engine bay the more flexible the rubber hose....

I have a feeling this issue is going to be a PITA.

[93redcb7]

id think if it was any sort of vacuum leak it would show on your boost gauge, unless you have your boost gauge reading somewhere besides your intake?