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Old 11-13-2017, 05:36 PM   #1
GTRON
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Question Brake Overhaul Suggestions?

Hey Guys, so my brakes are about done on all four corners, I'm definitely starting to get a squeal from my rear discs when coming to a stop.

Right now everything is stock all around (with the exception of SS brake hoses, and a rear disc conversion), and I'm wondering if there's a relatively simple way to upgrade my front calipers, and go to rotor over hub without going 5 lug.

Also, open to suggestions on rotors and pads. I definitely want at least slotted rotors.
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Old 11-13-2017, 10:15 PM   #2
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The "best" way to go to a ROH setup would be to buy the 2.3CL hubs, new OEM bearings, and 2.3CL front rotors and install everything inside the factory knuckle.

The "easiest" way would be to buy the entire front knuckle and brakes from a '98-'99 2.3CL or '98-'99 3.0CL. Obviously there are a lot of variables with this one, but I just wanted to present the idea that there are a myriad of ways to accomplish this and these are just two points along the spectrum.

Depending on whether or not you use this as an opportunity to upgrade rotor size or caliper size will influence the overall cost of this modification. Doing it the way I described first is essentially turning the HOR setup into a ROH setup and doing nothing else at all. Basically making the car the way it should have come from the factory, still with a 262mm front rotor.

Something else to consider is that this is a modification that doesn't require you to do everything at once. If you found a '98-'99 2.3CL at a junkyard and snagged both front knuckles with the rotors, you could run that setup with your OEM caliper and bracket only to decide you want to go with a larger 11.1" rotor in the future.

Also, if your car has Nissin calipers currently, you could upgrade rotor size with just new rotors, caliper brackets and pads. Your factory caliper would fit the larger bracket.

I will say that this topic can be a dreaded one to explain. People say that the information isn't clear, and they're usually right. It's because the nature of this modification is one that promotes a "while you're in there" upgrade. Not many people ever stick with the OEM 262mm rotor setup, but that's how the original DIY was written. To explain how to correct the HOR issue, and nothing else. The upgrade portion that includes possibilities for larger rotors, larger calipers (different calipers in the case of those with Akebonos) and different knuckles is what makes it confusing.

Tell us what you want andwhat your budget for this is, and we can make suggestions on how to proceed.
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Old 11-21-2017, 06:11 PM   #3
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I would like to upgrade my rotor size and calipers, and I am planning on spending some cash on this.

My goals are to go ROH on the front, and bump up the rotor (and caliper if possible) sizes.

I am not sure which Calipers my car came with, it's a 1992 LX Sedan.

I'd love to do what this guy did: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...=33141&page=27
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Old 11-22-2017, 12:20 AM   #4
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He rarely posts on here anymore, now that he's relegated himself to Instagram. His name there is @werdwerx, and that's the name of his shop, too.

In order for you to install RL calipers, you're either going to have to go with a 5-lug conversion, or have the necessary Maxima/350Z rotors redrilled for 4x114.3.

To perform that swap and stay 4x114.3, I would search around and find '98-'99 2.3CL or 3.0CL front knuckles and just install the whole knuckle in your car (after replacing the balljoint, of course. Buy the caliper adapter from Fat Four Customs (The FastBrakes model is a direct copy of a guy named Paul in the 7th-gen crowd.), the rotor from a Brembo caliper-equipped 350Z/G35 and the calipers from an '05-'12 Acura RL. You can source them many places. A guy named Rafael Vega sells them often (he has a set as of 11/22/17) and Werdwerx can sell you a pair already customized if you choose to go that route. I'd recommend stainless lines to go along with that, but that's pretty much it up front.
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Old 11-22-2017, 02:12 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
He rarely posts on here anymore, now that he's relegated himself to Instagram. His name there is @werdwerx, and that's the name of his shop, too.

In order for you to install RL calipers, you're either going to have to go with a 5-lug conversion, or have the necessary Maxima/350Z rotors redrilled for 4x114.3.

To perform that swap and stay 4x114.3, I would search around and find '98-'99 2.3CL or 3.0CL front knuckles and just install the whole knuckle in your car (after replacing the balljoint, of course. Buy the caliper adapter from Fat Four Customs (The FastBrakes model is a direct copy of a guy named Paul in the 7th-gen crowd.), the rotor from a Brembo caliper-equipped 350Z/G35 and the calipers from an '05-'12 Acura RL. You can source them many places. A guy named Rafael Vega sells them often (he has a set as of 11/22/17) and Werdwerx can sell you a pair already customized if you choose to go that route. I'd recommend stainless lines to go along with that, but that's pretty much it up front.
+1 to Werdwerx. If you want RLs rebuilt, he's the guy to go to. He's the only person who works on my Accord anymore. Great guy, and a diehard Accord enthusiast. You can do the whole thing through him too, as he gets his calipers from Rafael who Jarret mentioned (who is another close friend of mine).

One thing to note, the FFC calipers are meant to be used with the 350Z Brembo equipped size rotors.....Fastbrakes brackets are actually meant to be used with slightly smaller Nissan Maxima rotor. Having seen both side by side, FFC is my personal choice, and what seems to be much more popular.

When I first installed RLs, I was one of the first 2 people with Accords who had them, and stayed 4 lug back in late 2013. The first person to do it had custom rotors made, so that was a much more expensive route. I however realized that with the 5 lug guys using the 350Z rotor, I could just redrill it, and boom, its completely bolt on, and saves a good chunk of money over custom.



It shouldn't be hard to find a shop that can redrill the rotors for you....and if you can't find one, hit up 88 Rotors. I had them do mine back then. Cost like $30? And now, if you buy their brand rotors, a lot of times they will do it for free, which ain't bad.






On another note, which I don't think anyone really mentioned. If you would prefer to stick to a "stock" (aka non RL) setup, but still upsize, there are 2 ways to do it. Running 3.0 CL brakes like mentioned. But if you say find 2.3CL spindles instead, another option is to get rotors from a 93-96 Prelude VTEC (11in vs stock 10in), and get wagon/V6 Accord calipers. They are pretty much identical and use a much larger caliper vs the stock 4 cylinder Accord ones. With so many 90s Honda parts interchangeable, you have a few options for finding what's cheapest or most available local to you.

Last edited by Corweena; 11-22-2017 at 02:17 AM.
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Old 11-22-2017, 10:22 PM   #6
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That's really helpful guys! I think that's the way I want to go, with the RL calipers and custom mounts.

How much of a performance upgrade was the RL Caliper and (I'm assuming) larger rotors? It sure looks cool, but was braking improved?
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Old 11-26-2017, 01:30 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by GTRON View Post
That's really helpful guys! I think that's the way I want to go, with the RL calipers and custom mounts.

How much of a performance upgrade was the RL Caliper and (I'm assuming) larger rotors? It sure looks cool, but was braking improved?
Its a huge difference in braking over stock.

Larger rotors, larger brake pads, more caliper piston volume, and 4 pistons means a much more equal clamping force. Ideally, if you don't have it, you'll want to upgrade to rear discs too, but regardless, its a great improvement in braking performance. Once thing, because of the larger calipers and the subsequent extra fluid they hold, the brake pedal will soften up a bit. It may take a little getting used to...but I've found in emergency braking situations, its not a bad thing. It gives you a little more travel in the brake pedal to get full clamping force. In a hard braking situation, say if someone pulls out in front of you, when you instinctively jab at the brake pedal, you don't lock them up right away.....which was an issue I had with my stock brakes (since I don't have ABS). Its much easier to modulate the your brake pressure I've found with the RLs.

After recently upgrading my rear brakes and doing SS brake lines, along with adding some super sticky tires, I did some heavy brake testing. My friend has a private road leading to his house, so I did a bunch of 60-0 stops. I'd done some hard stops before, but with the chance to really push it, I gotta say I was super impressed. I didn't do any measurements, but after pushing harder and harder, I gotta say we were both really surprised as to how well that car hauls itself to a stop. Especially compared to his Wagon setup on his coupe. Granted, having 200 treadwear tires is a huge plus in braking performance, but regardless the calipers are a great upgrade for the price. Yes there are other kits out there that may perform better, but most kits are $1400+. An RL setup, if you can find deals will run you around $600 in parts. And everything is bolt on and easily purchased. Not special parts or pieces required.
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Old 11-26-2017, 12:23 PM   #8
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Its a huge difference in braking over stock.

Larger rotors, larger brake pads, more caliper piston volume, and 4 pistons means a much more equal clamping force. Ideally, if you don't have it, you'll want to upgrade to rear discs too, but regardless, its a great improvement in braking performance. Once thing, because of the larger calipers and the subsequent extra fluid they hold, the brake pedal will soften up a bit. It may take a little getting used to...but I've found in emergency braking situations, its not a bad thing. It gives you a little more travel in the brake pedal to get full clamping force. In a hard braking situation, say if someone pulls out in front of you, when you instinctively jab at the brake pedal, you don't lock them up right away.....which was an issue I had with my stock brakes (since I don't have ABS). Its much easier to modulate the your brake pressure I've found with the RLs.

After recently upgrading my rear brakes and doing SS brake lines, along with adding some super sticky tires, I did some heavy brake testing. My friend has a private road leading to his house, so I did a bunch of 60-0 stops. I'd done some hard stops before, but with the chance to really push it, I gotta say I was super impressed. I didn't do any measurements, but after pushing harder and harder, I gotta say we were both really surprised as to how well that car hauls itself to a stop. Especially compared to his Wagon setup on his coupe. Granted, having 200 treadwear tires is a huge plus in braking performance, but regardless the calipers are a great upgrade for the price. Yes there are other kits out there that may perform better, but most kits are $1400+. An RL setup, if you can find deals will run you around $600 in parts. And everything is bolt on and easily purchased. Not special parts or pieces required.
Awesome! I did already did the rear disc swap, and I love it.

I'm pretty sold on doing RL brakes then, I'll need to save some money and do that next year.
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Old 11-26-2017, 09:14 PM   #9
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You could also go the route of Legend GS/LS 2 piston calipers, instead of the pricey and hard to find RL 4 pistons.

They have more than enough stopping power with the larger 42/38mm sized pistons. +2mm over the NSX calipers.

I've gone 5 lug with an 01-03 Acura CL knuckle and rotor (11.8" vs. 11.1" compared to Prelude VTEC/VIGOR/3.0CL)

I'm still using my Legend GS 2 piston caliper with the CL anchor bracket, that allows me to space them out to fit the 11.8" rotor. You'll need 16" 5 lug wheels to make this work on your car though.











Painted them red to match the rears





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Old 11-27-2017, 05:53 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by Losiracer2 View Post
You could also go the route of Legend GS/LS 2 piston calipers, instead of the pricey and hard to find RL 4 pistons.

They have more than enough stopping power with the larger 42/38mm sized pistons. +2mm over the NSX calipers.

I've gone 5 lug with an 01-03 Acura CL knuckle and rotor (11.8" vs. 11.1" compared to Prelude VTEC/VIGOR/3.0CL)

I'm still using my Legend GS 2 piston caliper with the CL anchor bracket, that allows me to space them out to fit the 11.8" rotor. You'll need 16" 5 lug wheels to make this work on your car though.






That's definitely an option I will consider, I would like to avoid going 5 lug though. Also, Legend calipers don't look near as cool as the RLs!
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Old 11-27-2017, 05:59 PM   #11
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Fun fact, I finally figured out what wheels I have on my car, they're apparently 4 lug Honda HFP Silverstars! Mine aren't in great shape at all, and I'm eventually wanting to get some more stance mesh wheels or something soon.

Here's a pic of someone's RL brake setup with my wheel, it's really tight clearance wise, and he had to run a 1mm spacer.



Question, this is a smaller detail, but what would do I do for brake hoses if I covert to RL brakes? From what I saw, it's not the same fitting as my stock ones.
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Old 11-27-2017, 07:02 PM   #12
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Fun fact, I finally figured out what wheels I have on my car, they're apparently 4 lug Honda HFP Silverstars! Mine aren't in great shape at all, and I'm eventually wanting to get some more stance mesh wheels or something soon.

Here's a pic of someone's RL brake setup with my wheel, it's really tight clearance wise, and he had to run a 1mm spacer.



Question, this is a smaller detail, but what would do I do for brake hoses if I covert to RL brakes? From what I saw, it's not the same fitting as my stock ones.

RLs use the same fitting end as stock calipers. If I remember correctly you just use the OEM CB banjo bolt, as the RL one is a bit different. I'd suggest upgrading your lines to quality stainless steel ones. Goodridge makes a great kit and it comes with plenty of extra hardware for replacing the lines.
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Old 11-27-2017, 10:29 PM   #13
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So just to double check,

I'm going to need:

*RL Calipers
*CL Spindles
*Custom mounts for Calipers
*Rotors from a Brembo-equipped 350z or Maxima (are there specific years I should be looking for?)

Am I missing anything? I already have SS brake hoses, already did the rear disc swap.

Out of curiosity, are there any upgrades to be done to rear discs? Would that even be necessary at all after putting on RL calipers?
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Old 11-28-2017, 03:14 AM   #14
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You use 350Z rotors with the FFC caliper brackets. There are other brackets out there that are meant to be used with the Maxima rotors. But the FFC ones are far and away the most popular. They are design to be used with that one specific rotor. And as with all their products, quality and fitment are top notch. Plus they are Accord guys making parts for Accords. Always good to support those who share the same passion.

So your parts breakdown is pretty much correct.

CL spindles
RL calipers
FFC caliper brackets
350Z Track model rotors (Brembo equipped) 12.8"
*rotors will have to be redrilled to 4x114
Pads for RL calipers



As far as the rear, you can just run a more aggressive pad. I'm running matching front and rear Centric Premium High Carbon rotors. My RLs use Stillen Metal Matrix pads (a performance street pad), and for the rear calipers I'm using Hawk HPS 5.0, which is a high performance street pad, without going into a track pad like the HP+. If you have a DA 40/40 prop valve, its a very well balanced system. You still lock up the front first (as you should), but its much more balanced than when I had rear drums and did the conversion.

It can be noted that Fastbrakes does make a bracket that lets you space out the rear caliper and utilize a larger Honda Pilot rear rotor. BUT, it is not a plug and play kit. With that bracket, the caliper does not sit centered on the rotor, and it has to be shimmed or spaced out. I've been bugging the guys at FFC to take that design and make it a 100% bolt on kit as one of their next products.....but we'll see. But long story short, just run a good rear pad setup. Its plenty good like that.
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Old 11-28-2017, 01:08 PM   #15
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I run the exact same set up with the RL's though I am 5 lugs all around. I also rebuilt all my calipers before I installed them. It's really easy and I would just DIY and save the 200$ or so plus hshipping to werdwex. I was going to get the full shabang i.e.: rebuild and powder coat from him but it was going to take too long and I could not decide on a color so I just did the rebuild and put them on.

You can get all your seals and bleeder valves from *********.com. One thing I will say is that you will probably need a new master cylinder to push the fluid more efficiently. I have not done mine yet so you can always upgrade that later
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Old 11-28-2017, 02:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Corweena View Post
It can be noted that Fastbrakes does make a bracket that lets you space out the rear caliper and utilize a larger Honda Pilot rear rotor. BUT, it is not a plug and play kit. With that bracket, the caliper does not sit centered on the rotor, and it has to be shimmed or spaced out. I've been bugging the guys at FFC to take that design and make it a 100% bolt on kit as one of their next products.....but we'll see. But long story short, just run a good rear pad setup. Its plenty good like that.
I have a difficult enough time as it is getting the rear brake lines to attach to the calipers where they currently are. I imagine spacing the rear calipers even further away from the hub would require longer lines.
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Old 12-02-2017, 10:21 PM   #17
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Ok sweet! That's super helpful guys!

So is it just overall recommended that you immediately rebuild RL calipers (wherever you get them from)?

Also, where do I get RL calipers? eBay?

WerdWerx was way too expensive for me. I'm sure what he does is top notch, but $200?!
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Old 12-03-2017, 02:42 AM   #18
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unless you somehow find them at a junkyard, $200 is a totally fair price for them. They sell for that or more on eBay. Or you could get them for $500 a piece brand new. You gotta remember, these aren't dime-a-dozen single piston calipers you can find 20 sets of in the junkyard. Its a 4-piston caliper. Any other 4-piston BBK is gonna cost at least double of what an RL setup does. You gotta think in perspective.

Also, Werdwerx sets are definitely on the cleaner side. I've seen a few sets for $150ish....but you could tell they came off high mileage east coast cars with the amount of corrosion and crap built up on them. When I got mine in 2013, I think I payed about $300 for them. And that was cheap back then too. Also, his refinished calipers are top notch too. He uses a great powdercoater, and most importantly they properly mask and coat the calipers so that when you reassemble them, everything fits perfectly....which many people do not do and wonder why they can't install their brake pads into the calipers (because they didn't remove some shims and coated over them). Quality work isn't cheap. And when it comes to brakes, you don't want to cheap out.


And yes at minimum rebuild them. Obviously refinishing is optional. But you should definitely replace ALL the seals in them. And you have to be careful about which rebuild kit you get....many don't include the 2 small seals that go between the 2 caliper pieces and seal the fluid passages....pretty much the most important ones. If those leak, you're screwed.




This is realistically what a RL upgrade should cost for the major parts:
ROH or 5 lug front conversion: $150
FFC brackets: $150
Calipers: $200-250
Rotors: $100 and up
So all in all, you're looking at around $600-$700 or so in parts. Then throw in brake pads, and if you want the calipers refinished. Like I said before, not cheap. But its also not $1800+ for a Brembo setup (that would still be hub over rotor).

Last edited by Corweena; 12-03-2017 at 02:56 AM.
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Old 12-05-2017, 03:59 PM   #19
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I got mine from the junkyard but it was def a planning process. I used the LKQ pick and pull yards.

Basically I kept a tab the incoming Acura CL's throughout the month. If it is over a week old then you probably will not get the calipers, those are the first to go on these cars at the yard because they can be sold for so much. I got on it on the second or third day. It also got lucky cuz the car I got them from had wheel locks so I Jerry rigged the lock nuts off.

200$ is a fair price as I have seen them for more. However junkyard is always cheaper. I got mine for 60$ from a car that had under 100k on it.

Instead of doing ROH conversion I went 5 lug with Odyssey spindles and 350z brembo rotors. It's about the same parts wise because the spindle prices are about the same at the junkyard.

********* carries a few different seal sets including the one with the small seals for the fluid. I wire wheeled mine down, that removed all the dirt and grime on the shims, put in all new seals and dust boots. It's really easy. I may take them off in the future for powder coating but I just wanted to get them in and drive the car lol.
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