lets talk about vaping

[wildBill83]

Vaping is no different than smoking a hookah correctly. Hookah has been around for ages and is shown to be multitudes safer than cigarettes. Shisha or hookah tobacco is no different than ecig juice other than there being more plant matter. In either device you are only to heat the ingredients, not burn them. This is what makes them safer.

All they have done is modernized an old design. In fact hookah shisha used to use molasses instead of vg and pg. So new shisha is even safer than old shisha.

[toycar]

yea ive hit my friends pen and im stoned as a mofo.

Its like that eh?



Maybe I'll get one, lol

[Ralphie]

Vaping is no different than smoking a hookah correctly. Hookah has been around for ages and is shown to be multitudes safer than cigarettes. Shisha or hookah tobacco is no different than ecig juice other than there being more plant matter. In either device you are only to heat the ingredients, not burn them. This is what makes them safer.

All they have done is modernized an old design. In fact hookah shisha used to use molasses instead of vg and pg. So new shisha is even safer than old shisha.

Except now they add in all the flavor chemicals and chemicals to make it "appear" as smoke.

It is NOT like hookah at all actually.

[wildBill83]

Except now they add in all the flavor chemicals and chemicals to make it "appear" as smoke.

It is NOT like hookah at all actually.

Actually they use the same organic solvents, not chemicals, in shisha as they use in the ecigs for more dense vapor and flavoring. So yes, exactly like hookah shisha.

The same supplies to make ecig juice are used to make shisha. The only difference is raw nicotine vs plant tobacco.

Have you read anything about vg and pg? If you have you would know they vaporize into water basically and are nontoxic and noncarcinogenic.

[deevergote]

I wonder how long it will be before things are added to it.

[Ralphie]

Actually they use the same organic solvents, not chemicals, in shisha as they use in the ecigs for more dense vapor and flavoring. So yes, exactly like hookah shisha.

The same supplies to make ecig juice are used to make shisha. The only difference is raw nicotine vs plant tobacco.

Have you read anything about vg and pg? If you have you would know they vaporize into water basically and are nontoxic and noncarcinogenic.

First off, PG and VG are not organic.

Second, of course it would not be carcinogenic because there is no burning involved.

Those "chemicals" are not "vaporized" even though it's called vaping.

That's a sort of misnomer.

It's just changing the administration route from burning to droplets that you inhale much like a nebulizer. If you know what a nebulizer is, it's the same thing. It humidifies the drugs so you can inhale them instead of taking pills or getting a shot ,or through IV.

Which in the case of vaping, I think is worse, but that's my opinion because at this time there is no body of proof that shows long term effects from vaping.

That's my whole point.

[deevergote]

Carcinogens don't have to be burned. Asbestos, for example. Asbestos is a carcinogen, and it will give you cancer just by breathing the dust.

There is only one properly executed study that I have been able to find on the matter... though it seems to focus more on the device than the chemicals.
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/conten...37259.abstract
(I did not purchase the entire article, and only read the abstract.)


PG is what is used in asthma inhalers, I believe...



Now, with the current products on the market, I'd be more worried about an excess of nicotine being delivered. It's not terribly harmful, but tolerances can be built, and it does affect brain function. Since inhaling too much vapor is likely not going to cause the same discomfort as inhaling too much smoke, it's possible for someone to basically "vape" the equivalent of a carton of cigarettes in a day!
I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't already "super strength" juices available, with high doses of nicotine.

It seems to me that e-cigs are to cigarettes as energy drinks are to coffee.

[wildBill83]

Propylene glycol and vegitable glycerine are organic (not the same meaning as certified organic like in a grocery store) unless you for some reason want to use non approved synthetic glycerol. Organic means the substance is composed of only plant compounds in the chemistry sense.

And yes it is vaporized in the sublimination sense as it goes from liquid to vapor without being combusted... You can vaporize dry ice by just exposing it to room temperatures, actually called sublimination.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporization
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol

[RyanD]

Carcinogens don't have to be burned. Asbestos, for example. Asbestos is a carcinogen, and it will give you cancer just by breathing the dust.

There is only one properly executed study that I have been able to find on the matter... though it seems to focus more on the device than the chemicals.
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/conten...37259.abstract
(I did not purchase the entire article, and only read the abstract.)


PG is what is used in asthma inhalers, I believe...



Now, with the current products on the market, I'd be more worried about an excess of nicotine being delivered. It's not terribly harmful, but tolerances can be built, and it does affect brain function. Since inhaling too much vapor is likely not going to cause the same discomfort as inhaling too much smoke, it's possible for someone to basically "vape" the equivalent of a carton of cigarettes in a day!
I wouldn't be surprised if there aren't already "super strength" juices available, with high doses of nicotine.

It seems to me that e-cigs are to cigarettes as energy drinks are to coffee.

The highest amount of nic i have ever seen that you can buy in juice is 30mg which from my research is like a super cig. it will burn the shit out of your throat.

What pisses me off is theese government studies only focus on those cheap ass chineese e cigs that anyone into heavy vaping does not even use anymore. why can't they just review homemade popular juices like:

Namber Juice
PBDragon
D&D Vapor
ProVape

these are among the most popular places to get juice and you know what they all have in common? They are made by hand!

My friend Dusty (who you read about in another thread) has been ordering from PB for years and never had a problem. he even know people who have been ordering vapor from the above companies for even longer and never had a problem.

in the vaping community from what i have seen, there is a standard for how high you can safely take your nic levels. the guys that make theese juices dont want to kill your ass. as far as i know 30mg of nic will give you a head ache before it kills you.

[Ralphie]

Propylene glycol and vegitable glycerine are organic (not the same meaning as certified organic like in a grocery store) unless you for some reason want to use non approved synthetic glycerol. Organic means the substance is composed of only plant compounds in the chemistry sense.

And yes it is vaporized in the sublimination sense as it goes from solid to vapor without being combusted... You can vaporize dry ice by just exposing it to room temperatures.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_compound
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaporization
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Propylene_glycol
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol

Lighting a traditional cigarette causes the tobacco to burn, releasing smoke that contains nicotine. The user breathes in the smoke to deliver nicotine to the lungs. An electronic cigarette doesn't rely on this process of combustion. Instead, it heats a nicotine liquid and converts the liquid to a vapor, or mist, that the user inhales. Depending on the e-cigarette, the user may simply inhale from the cartridge to begin the vaporization process, though some devices have a manual switch that activates the vaporizer inside.

It can't be sublimination as that skips the liquid part, going from solid to gas. The ecig heats the liquid nicotine and turns it into vapor so its probably more like evaporation....

Organic means that the chemical contains carbon. PG is, not so sure about VG but it's irrelevant because.....

Quality control is one of the main issues health experts have with e-cigarettes. They argue that manufacturers may not disclose all of the chemical ingredients used in their products. This means it may be impossible for users to know exactly what they're consuming. There is also not much known about the short- or long-term health effects of exposure to nicotine vapor.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) conducted a small study in 2009 to analyze a sample of nicotine cartridges from two manufacturers. The results showed that the amount of nicotine delivered did not always match the amount stated on the label. The study also revealed that some cartridges labeled nicotine-free in fact contained nicotine. And cancer-causing compounds found in tobacco were also found in some e-cigarette cartridges, along with other toxins. One of the toxins found was diethylene glycol, a toxic chemical used in antifreeze. [source: FDA].
Despite these findings, electronic cigarette manufacturers claim that their products may have the potential to improve the health and lives of people addicted to nicotine. But many health experts say e-cigarette makers haven't conducted the research needed to back up their claims. The World Health Organization (WHO), for example, says there is not enough evidence to show that e-cigarettes are safe.
Health experts are also concerned about companies marketing e-cigarettes as a way to quit smoking. Nicotine replacement therapy (NRT) products like the nicotine patch or gum have been tested for their safety and effectiveness as smoking cessation aids. E-cigarettes have not. Some experts have expressed concern that marketers' claims -- or positive word-of-mouth from e-cig users -- may convince people to use e-cigarettes to try to stop smoking, instead of a method that has been proven effective.
Another question is whether nonsmokers will be attracted by the novelty or the perceived safety of e-cigarettes and take up the habit, thus becoming addicted to nicotine. This is especially important where younger consumers are concerned -- the candy-like flavors may particularly appeal to children and adolescents. And because e-cigarettes are sold online, young people may have easy access -- most companies don't check or confirm the age of their Internet customers.

Im not here to convince anyone of anything, just to not blindly accept what the internet tells you.

If you really think vaping is 100% safe, I can't help you.

Just do your own research and apply common sense.

[deevergote]

VG is vegetable. Contains carbon.


I'd be pretty confident in saying vaping is safer than inhaling smoke. 100% safe, I wouldn't go that far. Your lungs aren't designed to inhale such things. While it may not be terribly harmful, it's always safer to NOT inhale things your body wasn't designed for!

[wildBill83]

I never said it was 100% safe, I stated it was like hookah and magnitudes safer than a cigarette.

Also I corrected my typo above.

No you do not burn shisha or ecig juice. It is vaporized. The heating element never touches or combusts the products. Also evaporation is vaporization.

Study hookah if you want to know the long term effects of vaping.

[Ralphie]

Well anything is safer then regular cigarettes, no science there.

Hookah is burned/Shisha is melted, or vaporized, so don't confuse the two.

In any case, the water is suppose to remove toxicants and increase the flavor, but you're silly if you think that it's foolproof.

Like I said earlier, and Deev has said, you're not suppose to inhale/ingest anything into the lung cavity besides Oxygen.

Anything else will surely bring it's share of woes on the inner workings. It's not a matter of if, but when.



We should keep this shizz on topic though.....

about people vaping and enjoying it.

Ill stop being a debbie downer lol.

[deevergote]

Arguing the safety and wisdom of the act isn't a downer. It causes people to think about what they're doing. Perhaps it makes people who just assumed it was safe to consider it a bit more carefully. From the looks of it, it IS relatively safe... but a little critical thinking about what you put into your body is never a bad thing!

I searched on Google for a little while, trying to find some unbiased details... or at least something from a reputable source on health information. I found very little. I found LOTS of info on sites with names like eliquid, vapegrl, vapingguide, vapeforum, etc... so no unbiased info there, for sure!

I did find some info on livestrong.com, which may not be the best of sources... but at least it's not heavily biased in either direction. This info is in regards to VG and PG themselves, not vaping.
http://www.livestrong.com/article/51...able-glycerin/

Vegetable glycerin, also called glycerol, is a type of liquid derived from a variety of vegetable oils and is used in various applications throughout the food-processing and pharmaceutical industries for its potential health benefits. In the food industry, glycerin is used as a preservative and sweetener, while the pharmaceutical industry uses it as a binding agent and lubricant in various medications. Despite its potential benefits, vegetable glycerin may cause adverse effects in some people. If you believe you are sensitive to glycerin, talk to your doctor.
Want to improve your health? Learn more about LIVESTRONG.COM's nutrition and fitness program!
Toxicity

While most forms of vegetable glycerin have a relatively low toxicity, some forms, especially propylene glycol, can have toxic effects when consumed in high quantities. According to the World Health Organization, too much propylene glycol can cause excess lactate to build up in the bloodstream and can lead to coma, convulsions and cardiovascular problems such as heart attack. However, the amount required to cause these reactions is high, making an overdose unlikely.
Allergic Reaction

Some forms of vegetable glycerin may cause allergic reactions, especially if you are sensitive to oils, such as coconut and palm oil. Some vegetable glycerin compounds also contain sulfites, which are infused in the oil to extend the shelf life of the product, especially in the food manufacturing industry. According to the Cleveland Clinic, a sensitivity to sulfite can cause asthma-like symptoms and a generalized allergic reaction.
Skin Reactions

Some vegetable glycerins and glycols are known skin irritants, according to the book "Clinical Practice of Emergency Medicine." When raw vegetable glycerins come in contact with your skin, they may cause skin allergies. Glycerin interacts with the natural oils on the surface of the skin and may cause itching and the appearance of hives or a rash. Washing your skin thoroughly with soap and water can help remove any vegetable glycerin remaining on your skin and help treat a skin reaction.
Other Precautions

Vegetable glycerins can irritate your respiratory system and gastrointestinal tract. If vegetable glycerin is accidentally inhaled, it can irritate the mucous membranes in the lungs and cause wheezing, swelling of the tongue and upper respiratory tract infections. High amounts of oral vegetable glycerin can upset your stomach and result in nausea, diarrhea and in rare cases inflammation of your gastrointestinal tract, called gastroenteritis.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/51...#ixzz2frFeEjwk

[cp[mike]]

just spectating here, but wanted to pop in some input about prop glycol - it is FDA approved for foodstuffs such as jellybean coatings and shine agents, but only at a "reasonable" level imperceptible to a healthy human. otherwise, it is well known that PG can straight up kill cats and other smaller animals when they drink it. so.. yeah.. admittedly, not healthy. i'm not a vaper, but if you want to criticize anybody for inhaling it, then you should really think about the additives in the food you eat and absorb on a daily basis, sometimes in large quantities...