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93 Accord race car Build/Questions thread

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    Update: trying to get the car ready for Buttonwillow on Oct 1-2

    But 3rd gear is shot after the last race. Even shifting at low RPMs it grinds bad.
    So I'm looking for a M2A4, M2F4 or an M2S4. I figure those will be the most common and easiest to find.

    Anyone have one they'd like to part with?? I'll paint your name on the car

    Comment


      We didn't end up going to Buttonwillow in October, too much going on, everyone busy, gf issues, etc.

      But now I got a new guy on our team, I broke up my my girlfriend , and Chumpcar opened up a new race at Laguna Seca in November!

      So Chumpcar always runs Laguna Seca, and it always sells out really fast. It's Sat/Sun Nov 19th and 20th. This year, they got the track on the previous Thursday and Friday, and recently announced another race opening up. So we signed up for that one!

      Laguna Seca is an *awesome* track, it's probably my 2nd or 3rd favorite track I've been on behind the Nurburgring Nordschleife in Germany (of cource) and Sonoma.
      The only problem is that it has a really restrictive sound requirement. Your car can't be over 90dB at 50 feet up the hill before turn 6.
      That's REALLY quiet. Some stock performance cars are louder than that.


      Anyway, the car needed some work since last race, the 3rd gear synchro was toast, so I'd been looking on craigslist periodically for a close ratio Prelude transmission.
      In the meantime, a couple months ago a used Quaife LSD came up on honda-tech, and a grabbed it for $500 shipped. Yeah it's pretty cheaty, but when we're racing against 2000+ E46 BMWs, I'm not going to lose any sleep over it.

      Then a month ago I found a guy selling an M2Y4, and offered him $400 for it, and picked it up.
      From Synchrotech I ordered their carbon synchros for 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gear. To save money, I'm not going to touch 1st or 5th since you don't need those on track.

      I'm hoping the carbon synchros hold up to racing abuse better than the stock ones.

      And the m2Y4 has some great ratios. we'll be able to pull so much harder in 2nd and then wind out 3rd and 4th, where with the stock trans, 3rd was so tall it was almost as high as 4th gear in this M2Y4.
      That's really bad for performance.



      So then last weekend my main team mate and best friend Benino and I pulled the new transaxle apart, cleaned it up, replaced the 2/3/4 synchros, swapped the ring gear from the open diff to the Quaife LSD and put it all back together with new axle seals. The old synchros and everything else inside looked in really good shape so I'm hopeful this trans will work well.

      Here you can see the quaife:



      Me looking stupid



      and Benino looking stupid lol


      The only 2 problems we had are that there's a magnet in the bottom of the trans to catch metal shavings that I took out to clean. I didn't realize I never put it back in until the whole thing was back together.... ughh. I'll probably glue a magnet to the drain plug or something.

      The 2nd problem was that I didn't realize that to change the tranny input shaft seal, you need to do it from the INSIDE. You remove both gear sets and then the input bearing and it's under the bearing there. STupid fucking design. Anyway I also realized this only once everything was buttoned up. So we're goin gto be running with a used input seal, and hope it doesn't puke fluid all over the brand new clutch.


      That brings us to now:
      ---------

      Next weekend we're going to have to put a much quieter exhaust on it.
      Right now we have an ebay DC-clone header into a test pipe, then a 60mm ebay full exhaust into a small fartcan with a 4" tip.



      It's REALLY FUCKING LOUD.

      I plan on cutting the fart can off, welding in a Dynomax super turbo, then welding a 90 degree left turn, then welding a 2 bolt flange on the end. If we need to we can bolt another turbo muffler onto the 2 bolt flange on the end as a quick fix while we're at the track if the car is still too loud.


      It will look something like this:


      The reason the exhaust will point to the left is that the sound measuring station at the track is in a permanent building on the right side of the track, so pointing away from it helps lower the reading.


      I also ordered an eClutchmaster 10lb flywheel for $115, and a stock Exedy Prelude clutch kit, and a new rear main seal.

      We'll start the new clutch/tranny install this weekend.


      Question: Everything I see says the Accord and Prelude clutches are interchangeable, but the Prelude has a 220mm clutch and the Accord is 225mm.
      what?
      Last edited by aventari; 11-02-2016, 12:51 AM.

      Comment




        Got my clutch and flywheel in today. Tomorrow I will take them to the machine shop for balancing. <--- This is a very good idea for anyone installing a new pressure plate and/or flywheel in any car you care about. They balance them as a unit, and I've had high quality supposedly 'pre-balanced' parts be out and need some balancing done.



        eClutchmasters 10lb chromoly flywheel for "Accord/Prelude/CL". I called and asked the guy what size it was, (220 or 225) and he couldn't tell me.

        Looks to be about 230mm in diameter, so it will work for any Prelude or Accord clutch setup.


        The clutch kit is an Exedy KHC03--which is for a later Prelude.

        The pressure plate measures at 8 7/8" which is 225mm


        The clutch disc measures 8 5/8" which is 220mm. That must be where the difference between "Accord" and "Prelude setups are. The disc diameter. I'll bet the pressure plate is identical in each kit.








        Then the dynomax exhaust came too, I'll weld that on this weekend

        Comment


          Last weekend we installed the M2Y4 and clutch and it all worked great, except for me being stupid.

          I only replaced 2nd, 3rd, and 4th synchros thinking we wouldn't really need 5th and the stock 5th gear synchro would be fine anyway, right?

          Wrong. The trans works great with the new synchros and the Quaife, but 5th gear crunches if you shift into it and anything but a snails pace. And with the lower gear ratios, we're going to need 5th at Laguna Seca on the front straight.

          It's a used tranny, but WTF, who destroys a 5th gear synchro? How shitty of a driver do you have to be to do that? anyway

          This weekend end we finished up. Got the exhaust installed and brake ducts fixed from going off road last race.


          Gonna start a new trend with double mufflers







          That's an empty can of beans used for the coupler in the middle

          Comment


            I'll do a better write up later, but we did great!

            Laguna Seca is a really fun track and the weather was cold but sunny.

            We finished 4th place overall on Thurs, and took the win for class B for the event!

            I got the fastest lap time of 1:51.592 on Friday.

            The CB7 ran great the whole time, 14 straight hours of full-throttle hard racing. Our Accord isn't the most powerful can there--it's probably the slowest in the straights after the Miatas, but it handles awesome and is crazy reliable.

            Arrival at our garage


            Chasing a Maserati Biturbo


            Passing the Maserati in the next long straight


            Finishing 1st in class!


            Impound where they check your car over if you're in the top 5 to make sure you're not cheating

            Comment


              Wow. Very impressive.

              Comment


                Nice

                Comment


                  Update: getting ready for a race at the end of next month.

                  I pulled the plugs to check out engine condition, the plugs have 3 races on them, car was running great, and 3 of them look absolutely perfect and brand new.. They are also 2 heat ranges colder than stock.

                  This is what the plug from the #3 cylinder looks like:



                  Electrode completely melted.

                  I was guessing it's from the injector being clogged or something and running lean, overheating the cylinder and melting the plug.

                  2 races ago we did dump a jug of gas in the car that had been previously been used for holding a bunch of old dirty rusty contaminated gas in it, and that almost immediately clogged the fuel filter. We just kept running the car and replacing fuel filters. We went through about 3 or 4 filters that weekend and after. So I guess a tiny contaminate could've clogged the injector during that debacle.

                  After checking the plugs I adjusted valves and everything was good except one of the exhaust valves on the lean cylinder #3 was tight, .007" compared to all the others at .012"-.014" (spec is .012")
                  So I think that valve/seat had started to burn along with the plug.


                  Then I did a leakdown test and got
                  cylinder
                  #1 87%
                  #2 81%
                  #3 74%
                  #4 58%

                  For all cylinders I heard the air in the crankcase which just tells us worn rings BUT for #4 cylinder I heard air in the sparkplug hole of #3 which tells me that there's a head gasket leak between the two. Maybe that's why the plug burned up? I don't know, I've never heard of anything like that.

                  I then did compression test and got (from memory)

                  cylinder
                  #1 175
                  #2 170
                  #3 155
                  #4 140




                  A friend has a shop with an injector cleaner/test bench which can view spray patterns and measure output, so I tested the injectors:


                  cyl 4 - 3 - 2 - 1

                  The injectors are pretty even..


                  I'm going to pull the head this weekend and see where we are at..

                  Comment


                    Pulled head today, and like a dumb-ass noob I broke the intake manifold trying to pull too hard on it.

                    So if anyone has an F22A6 lower runner to sell me, I'd like to buy it!


                    Other than that everything looks pretty good. I don't see any obvious problems. The intake nuts were pretty loose though so maybe the intake to head seal was leaking and letting in air on cylinder 3 and leaning it out??




                    Comment


                      SHould I just get a complete H23A1 intake manifold? does that bolt on?

                      Comment


                        wow, been a while since i've been here. I watched your black flag, ug. Not sure i could do that. It's like talking to a police officer or following road rules where it's not your fault the guy slammed on his brakes, but it is your fault you were following closely and had no options left. BUT........... it's racing. You follow close. But......... he was right I guess. Dunno.. my attitude may get in the way there.

                        And I was pretty sure you could get the inner trans seal out from the outside, just need the proper tool. WAY easier from the inside though.

                        And i'm super jealous you got to race on Laguna Seca. Ug. A dream of mine. This thread rocks!

                        Comment


                          The entire H23A1 manifold will bolt on, runners and all. It's a decent power upgrade as well.

                          Love this thread and the effort you put into racing an Accord.

                          Also since I know your always after the quest for power that doesn't look non-stock. Would it be possible for you to put in a F23A1 block to bump the compression and give you a longer stroke? Keeping the F22A6 head of course and just swapping the block. I don't know if they would notice or not. Just some food for thought.
                          Last edited by Rilas; 09-03-2017, 10:16 AM.
                          MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

                          Comment


                            If you don't decide to go with the h23 manifold I believe I have a lower portion to the a6. I will look first thing tomorrow morning when the sun is out.

                            As for what Will said, just gunk up the lettering so the 3 looks like a 2.
                            ~Nick~
                            FSAE (F Series Accord Enthusiasts) ..."A dying breed thats taking it to the next level" Lucky #13
                            MR Thread:http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...ight=Grumpys93

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Raf99 View Post
                              wow, been a while since i've been here. I watched your black flag, ug. Not sure i could do that. It's like talking to a police officer or following road rules where it's not your fault the guy slammed on his brakes, but it is your fault you were following closely and had no options left. BUT........... it's racing. You follow close. But......... he was right I guess. Dunno.. my attitude may get in the way there.
                              Yeah since it's all for fun we try to not take it too seriously. I still say that was not my fault whatsoever!

                              Originally posted by Rilas View Post
                              The entire H23A1 manifold will bolt on, runners and all. It's a decent power upgrade as well.

                              Love this thread and the effort you put into racing an Accord.

                              Also since I know your always after the quest for power that doesn't look non-stock. Would it be possible for you to put in a F23A1 block to bump the compression and give you a longer stroke? Keeping the F22A6 head of course and just swapping the block. I don't know if they would notice or not. Just some food for thought.
                              Thanks, I think if I bother pulling the motor, I'll probably end up with an H22A swap and just take the hit and get bumped into class A. Who knows though. Right now I'm going to pull the oil pan, take out the pistons and hone the cylinders and throw some new rings on. That will hopefully last us many more races once I redo the head as well.

                              Originally posted by Grumpys93 View Post
                              If you don't decide to go with the h23 manifold I believe I have a lower portion to the a6. I will look first thing tomorrow morning when the sun is out.

                              As for what Will said, just gunk up the lettering so the 3 looks like a 2.

                              I would LOVE to get the lower A6 portion from you! I drove 2 hours to the junk yard and couldn't find any Preludes with a H23 at *all*
                              There was one A6 Accord manifold but it was getting late and I didn't want to run out of time when pulling it. Plus they want $50 for a manifold I have to pull myself..

                              Comment


                                Got head back from shop, it tested good, but needs 8 new exhaust valves and 8 guides. I'll also do a resurfacing.

                                They're going to weld up the broken manifold too. So now I'm just looking for an H23 upper plenum.

                                (click for big)

                                Clean, bare head:


                                I decided to spend 3 hours on a quick port job tonight before the shop finishes up machining it

                                Stock ports:





                                Dykem before starting


                                Polished chambers


                                Finished ports




                                Tomorrow I'll pull the pan and take the pistons out and dingleball hone and re-ring the shortblock

                                Comment

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