Hondas quality..

[HenRoc]

Started slid. Maybe its me but after doing this

..for one short in the SRS system




SRS harness is tied in with the entire engine harness which connects under the dash. The CB was in two or three separate harnesses. Even the front ABS sensors..are tied in.


Thoughts?

[Rilas]

That looks awful. After doing a wire tuck on my CB7 and deleting the SRS and ABS I can say, that looks like a nightmare. At least the ABS and the SRS are separate other than the wheel sensors. Must be a cost and time resource thing to integrate it all into one harness now.

[deevergote]

Cars are getting more complicated, compact, and disposable, it seems. I hate working on new stuff. Older cars are so much easier. I like the luxury and convenience of newer cars, but I don't think I'm ever going to get excited about taking a wrench to anything newer than 1995. I sure as hell couldn't work on cars for a living! It would drive me insane.

[sonikaccord]

I think cars are getting simpler at the assembly stage, which sucks for us (mechanics, enthusiast) because it creates PITA situations like this.

[deevergote]

True. Everything is integrated. Everything is computerized. Everything is put together by robots. Everything is held together by single-use fasteners.

I took the center console of my Miata apart a while ago... 9 screws. All identical. It was so freaking easy. My CB7 was more complicated (though only slightly). I wouldn't know where to begin on my CTS-V.

[toycar]

True. Everything is integrated. Everything is computerized. Everything is put together by robots. Everything is held together by single-use fasteners.

I took the center console of my Miata apart a while ago... 9 screws. All identical. It was so freaking easy. My CB7 was more complicated (though only slightly). I wouldn't know where to begin on my CTS-V.

ctsv is a lot of carefully snapped together shit

only Japanese can afford screws apparently.

[h22sparkle]

This is definitely crazy though this is why I'm going back in the years when it comes to cars too. The newer cars are definitely computerized and to top it off you'll have other sensors it things on top of things just to make repairs which are costly.

[CyborgGT]

Doesn't integrating harnesses usually mean less materials and therefore less weight? Airbags aren't something I'd ever remove from a street car, so I don't understand the gripe.

[owequitit]

This isn't a specific "Honda quality" issue. This is an industry trend and data does not support changes like this being a decrease in quality.

Sure, it sucks more for the techs to have to troubleshoot and repair it, but the overall number of issues per car has decreased, and every statistical sample backs that up. This is even more impressive when you consider the increase in complexity of modern cars, the added features, and the generally more available trim options.

It's all a function of removing failure points. Failures can always occur, but every plug, pin, joint, harness connection, etc is another opportunity for a failure. Especially down the road as cars age.

Not saying that I don't agree that Honda has cut quality is some areas, but the cheaper quality would manifest more in rubber components that don't last as long, replacing metal with plastic, using cheaper components, etc. Not necessarily for having simpler designs.

['93CB7Ex]

speaking on terms of build quality, i feel like my 2003 acura cl is built like a brick shit house compared to the 7G accord i just got.

[SOHC-FTW]

Good/decent weld able metal stoped in the late 80s early 90s and its due to cutting cost and a bit due to trying to be safer I suppose but it's all recycled upon recycled etc etc etc metal it's all crap now a days. When 4yr old cars and trucks come in with gobs of rust theirs something wrong and it's not just one brand it's all of them.

Unless I hit the lottery I will stick with my older stuff to me it's all around better. We had a 16 outback wreck it wasn't major maybe lower radiator support, lower control arm on driver side, hood, fenders air bags and the car called 4 different police stations in different states and about 14 county's plus you couldn't turn the car the steering wheel it's self would jerk back and forth rapidly nowadays cars are huge piles of plunder!

[owequitit]

Good/decent weld able metal stoped in the late 80s early 90s and its due to cutting cost and a bit due to trying to be safer I suppose but it's all recycled upon recycled etc etc etc metal it's all crap now a days. When 4yr old cars and trucks come in with gobs of rust theirs something wrong and it's not just one brand it's all of them.

Unless I hit the lottery I will stick with my older stuff to me it's all around better. We had a 16 outback wreck it wasn't major maybe lower radiator support, lower control arm on driver side, hood, fenders air bags and the car called 4 different police stations in different states and about 14 county's plus you couldn't turn the car the steering wheel it's self would jerk back and forth rapidly nowadays cars are huge piles of plunder!

It is the increased use of alloys that have changed it. Gone is pure steel. That said it is primarily for safety and fuel economy. Not really on board with the economy thing, but the safety is a pretty huge factor.

I'd rather replace a car than a loved one and if the car is designed to deform and crash, then it keeps the occupants from having to do it. Cheap price to pay.

[deevergote]

It is very true that new cars are significantly safer than old ones. I remember seeing the video of a newer Chevy (probably a decade old now... Malibu, I believe it was...) smashing into an old Bel Air... and the new car tore right through it. The big old car looked like it would be safer, but that was far from the reality.
Today, even tiny things like the Smart ForTwo can withstand a significant impact without squishing the occupants (of course, in a car that size, the occupants would likely die from the shock of the impact, as there's nothing to absorb it...)

[sonikaccord]

There is nothing wrong with recycled metals. I'd rather have a habitable planet than a vehicle made with new materials. As far as rust, that sounds more like poor protection than the quality of the metal.

Cars are adding more composite material (plastics) where metal used to be used and it subjectively cheapens the feel of the car to experienced people. The majority would not care if their intake manifold was made out of paper maché! However the interior or any part of the car that is touched and looked at constantly should have a somewhat substantial quality to it to give the impression that the whole car is solid. A quiet POS is better than a loud POS.

As far as computers...they are one of the best things to happen to the modern vehicle. It allows so many possibilities for features that simply could not have been implemented in the past. They don't require any processor oil or RAM belts or any other maintenance. They can tell you literally the status of everything in the car from the XM radio all the way to a blown dome light. I don't see why people get upset (Scotty Kilmer) when their car has a code. It's easy enough to weed through the old ones and potential false ones yet it is much more helpful when the codes are right.

[owequitit]

There is nothing wrong with recycled metals. I'd rather have a habitable planet than a vehicle made with new materials. As far as rust, that sounds more like poor protection than the quality of the metal.

Cars are adding more composite material (plastics) where metal used to be used and it subjectively cheapens the feel of the car to experienced people. The majority would not care if their intake manifold was made out of paper maché! However the interior or any part of the car that is touched and looked at constantly should have a somewhat substantial quality to it to give the impression that the whole car is solid. A quiet POS is better than a loud POS.

As far as computers...they are one of the best things to happen to the modern vehicle. It allows so many possibilities for features that simply could not have been implemented in the past. They don't require any processor oil or RAM belts or any other maintenance. They can tell you literally the status of everything in the car from the XM radio all the way to a blown dome light. I don't see why people get upset (Scotty Kilmer) when their car has a code. It's easy enough to weed through the old ones and potential false ones yet it is much more helpful when the codes are right.

Extraction of ore isn't really ruining the Earth, and actually we have been recycling metals for decades. We turned all the WWII airplanes into beer cans and then probably spoons or something.

Besides, recycling metals isn't what people think. Ultimately, they can be remelted, and reused and they are as good as new for all intents and purposes.