CB7Tuner Forums

Go Back   CB7Tuner Forums > 4th Gen-eral > Off Topic

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-06-2020, 08:42 PM   #1
CyborgGT
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,567
CyborgGT seems to have made some friends!
The possibility of no new fossil-fuel powered cars in the next 15-20 years

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/b...-2035-n1129616

I just wonder what this could mean for used car owners in terms of taxation, as well as the existing infrastructure of fuel stations and the pricing there. Is it possible that the government could increase emissions requirements even for older vehicles to be used, effectively banning dirtier cars? Worrying times for the enthusiast.
__________________

Project CB9 AeroR start-up: //////////
MRT | Engine build | Daily RSX

Last edited by CyborgGT; 02-06-2020 at 08:47 PM.
CyborgGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-06-2020, 09:01 PM   #2
cp[mike]
ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 12,089
cp[mike] is very helpful cp[mike] is very helpful cp[mike] is very helpful
i'm looking forward to the drop-in retrofit kits otherwise, combustion engines are certainly doomed, IMO.
__________________


- 1993 Accord LX - White sedan (sold)
- 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (wrecked)
- 1991 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
- 1990 Accord EX - Grey sedan (sold)
- 1993 Accord EX - White sedan (sold)
- 1992 Accord EX - White coupe (sold)
- 1993 Accord EX - Grey coupe (stolen)
- 1993 Accord SE - Gold coupe (sold)
Current cars:
- 2005 Subaru Legacy GT Wagon - Daily driver
- 2004 Chevrolet Express AWD - Camper conversion
cp[mike] is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 08:04 AM   #3
sonikaccord
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In Traffic
Posts: 4,262
sonikaccord seems to have made some friends!
I love EVs...well the idea of EVs. No one has made a proper enthusiasts EV, IMO. Tesla is close. It'll take a whole new skill set (and a ton of electrical knowledge) to mod them, and I'm here for it all.

But first...I have some combustion engine noises to make
__________________

YouTube Clicky!!
sonikaccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 05:45 PM   #4
steelbluesleepR
I shoot people
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: St. Louis, MO
Posts: 3,733
steelbluesleepR seems to have made some friends!
I think there will always be enthusiast IC vehicles, as well as long-range internal combustion, but I also believe that something will completely replace the average IC passenger car within the next 50 years. It may not be full electric, but it definitely won't be a fossil fuel car.
__________________

Click for my Member's Ride Thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen Fry
'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so fucking what?' —Stephen Fry
Eye Level Media - Commercial & Automotive Photography: www.EyeLevelSTL.com
steelbluesleepR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-07-2020, 07:12 PM   #5
H311RA151N
Silver Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Out
Posts: 2,460
H311RA151N seems to have made some friends! H311RA151N seems to have made some friends!
Maybe. Maybe not that soon though. Guess we will see. It's inevitable eventually I think. However, there are still coal powered locomotives. They aren't banned. They just aren't produced. Cost of operation is through the roof in comparison to when they were standard. Inflation included I'm sure. Probably will be the same for fossil fuel powered vehicles. It's likely, I think, that in 50 years (I'll be 80 or dead) that you will drive your EV (or equivalent) to work and might take your gasser out on Saturday and pay $15/gallon and a tax of some sort to do so. Honestly, who knows. Right now, you can drive a 1919 Model T to work if you so choose. And there isn't anything in the works to suggest otherwise as of yet. Time will tell.
__________________
Find me on YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCx7...BeHuX87LzYChKA
H311RA151N is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-08-2020, 05:48 PM   #6
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,205
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
The most likely thing that will kill IC engines will be a lack of infrastructure. Just as we don't currently have the existing infrastructure to power hydrogen, natural gas, or even electric vehicles (our grid would throw a fit if everyone bought a Tesla tomorrow!)

Eventually, you won't find gas stations on every street corner. Conversions to alternative combustible fuels will likely be necessary to run IC engines.

I don't know that we'll ever see them fully phased out in our lifetime, though. Even if electric (or something else) becomes mandatory in 15 years, people will still expect to get use out of their old vehicles. It'll take many, many years before IC engines truly become unsupported relics.

And Mike has a point... retrofit kits will probably be the way many enthusiasts will keep their classics on the road. Just like we often see modern engines swapped into old vehicles with archaic, unsupported original engines.
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 05:40 AM   #7
blazercrx
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 41
blazercrx is cool... so far.
I did my engineering ethics paper on autonomous vehicles which most were electric. They get better distance and were supposed to be safer. There is no legislation even written up for the autonomous vehicles so there will be legal hold backs to just switching over full force any time soon.
Which means oil companies lobbying to protect our right to drive IC vehicles when EV's are the majority of vehicles out there. Keep an eye on what laws get passed/amended to see where the U.S. goes on the subject.

financial tip/DAD PUN ALERT: (invest ACCORDingly)
blazercrx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 03:37 PM   #8
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,205
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
Maybe battery technology will become so advanced that the batteries will be tiny... so we can retrofit a car like a CB7 with rear electric motors for "normal and legal" driving, and not have to remove the IC engine for when we want to have fun (at the track, or on back roads at our own risk...)

Laws will definitely sway things. Many big automakers are aiming to have a significant electric offering in coming years... some are even expecting to go 100% electric.
Ultimately, though, the market will dictate based on consumer preference. Right now, people are excited about electrics with gas-like ranges. The Tesla Model 3 is EVERYWHERE near me, because it's affordable and practical.

What will happen when electric cars are as varied and plentiful as current IC offerings? What will happen when you can just pull into a parking spot with a charging platform at the supermarket. Next thing you know, your car is fully charged, and you did nothing but park (I foresee this being something that will eventually happen.) Some retailers may even offer it for free (like Kohls currently does with their plug-in charging stations.)

It makes me angry to think about it... but I foresee myself getting an electric car at some point. I do genuinely hope that I don't have to give up my dino-burning manually-shifted cars, though!
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2020, 09:55 PM   #9
sonikaccord
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In Traffic
Posts: 4,262
sonikaccord seems to have made some friends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercrx View Post
I did my engineering ethics paper on autonomous vehicles which most were electric. They get better distance and were supposed to be safer. There is no legislation even written up for the autonomous vehicles so there will be legal hold backs to just switching over full force any time soon.
Which means oil companies lobbying to protect our right to drive IC vehicles when EV's are the majority of vehicles out there. Keep an eye on what laws get passed/amended to see where the U.S. goes on the subject.

financial tip/DAD PUN ALERT: (invest ACCORDingly)
This. There are some pretty interesting situations that come up when dealing with people's lives and computer programming.
__________________

YouTube Clicky!!
sonikaccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 08:44 PM   #10
CyborgGT
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,567
CyborgGT seems to have made some friends!
Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Maybe battery technology will become so advanced that the batteries will be tiny...
I'm sure they will; that's the nature of technological advancement. Everything gets more powerful as it also shrinks. I can't see it being too long before electric cars are just as light, if not lighter than, comparable ICE cars, further helping the range.


Quote:
It makes me angry to think about it... but I foresee myself getting an electric car at some point. I do genuinely hope that I don't have to give up my dino-burning manually-shifted cars, though!
I'm not totally against electric cars. I'm actually really liking that little Honda e. I think about electric cars in the same way that I keep considering picking up a Honda Ruckus: a small, efficient run-around to take care of simple errands within a couple miles of home sounds great. I hate taking short trips even in my 'little' two-door RSX, with its size compared to what I'm doing (it feels like too much sometimes), and if the trip is too short but it's too cold or I don't have the time to walk, I have to take a round-about way of getting to the place just because I want to make sure the engine's had a proper chance at warming up before shutting it off again.

I just worry about how difficult - or even unfair, in a sense - electric cars becoming the norm might make owning an ICE car, when that's where my passion is. I'm sure I'm worrying over nothing, and it'll be after we're dead that that would become a real threat, but I can't help thinking about it.
__________________

Project CB9 AeroR start-up: //////////
MRT | Engine build | Daily RSX
CyborgGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 09:26 PM   #11
deevergote
Don't call me dude.
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Not New York
Posts: 40,205
deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool... deevergote . You'll never be this cool...
Send a message via AIM to deevergote
I think you’re right that it won’t likely be in our lifetime that ICE cars really become unusable. It’ll definitely come as a result of market demand and infrastructure. People now prefer ICE because they're familiar and convenient. You can get gas in 3-5 minutes for a reasonable price. If your car breaks, parts are readily available, as are skilled mechanics to install them. Electric cars (as well as less popular alternative fuels) don’t offer that familiarity or convenience... yet. Once they do, the transition will likely be swift. But I don’t see that shift to an electric majority totally killing off gas powered cars right away. When we shifted to unleaded gas, fuel injection, and catalytic converters, the old style vehicles didn’t suddenly become unusable. Granted, shifting to electric will be a significantly larger change.

Someday, ICE enthusiasts will be defending their passion the way rotary enthusiasts do now. So what if it’s loud, dirty, unreliable, inefficient, and slower than your mom’s sedan? It’s cool!
__________________






deevergote is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-18-2020, 10:27 PM   #12
CyborgGT
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,567
CyborgGT seems to have made some friends!
What annoys me about the time it takes to charge vs filling up with gas is the possibility of hydrogen fuel cells and how little attention that's getting (Honda FCX Clarity, anyone?). I really hope development there hasn't been ignored completely in favor of electricity. It combines the familiarity of a quick fill-up with a resource that is presumably infinitely renewable if only we can get away from using fossil fuels to separate it from water... like using hydrogen itself to power whatever it is that does the separation. Not that I could pretend to know what it takes to make hydrogen fuel cells realistic, but I would think it'd be an easier way to wean us off fossil fuels.
__________________

Project CB9 AeroR start-up: //////////
MRT | Engine build | Daily RSX
CyborgGT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2020, 07:45 AM   #13
sonikaccord
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: In Traffic
Posts: 4,262
sonikaccord seems to have made some friends!
Quote:
Someday, ICE enthusiasts will be defending their passion the way rotary enthusiasts do now. So what if it’s loud, dirty, unreliable, inefficient, and slower than your mom’s sedan? It’s cool!
Damn right it is. It has personality, character...it has a soul! Oh, wait, is that how we're going to feel in the future?
__________________

YouTube Clicky!!
sonikaccord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-21-2020, 12:33 PM   #14
verothacamaro
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Baltimore, MD
Posts: 838
verothacamaro is cool... so far.
Send a message via AIM to verothacamaro
Quote:
Originally Posted by CyborgGT View Post
What annoys me about the time it takes to charge vs filling up with gas is the possibility of hydrogen fuel cells and how little attention that's getting (Honda FCX Clarity, anyone?). I really hope development there hasn't been ignored completely in favor of electricity. It combines the familiarity of a quick fill-up with a resource that is presumably infinitely renewable if only we can get away from using fossil fuels to separate it from water... like using hydrogen itself to power whatever it is that does the separation. Not that I could pretend to know what it takes to make hydrogen fuel cells realistic, but I would think it'd be an easier way to wean us off fossil fuels.
I don't understand hydrogen personally since the infrastructure doesn't exist at all.

Compared to electricity, the infrastructure has been around for a hundred years. It is already in place. The marginal cost to scale up electric charging stations would be dramatically lower compared to hydrogen.

The inconvenience of charging will have to be improved or we'll have to make a cultural change.
__________________
14 Ford Focus ST - stock(ish) - E30 Tune + Green Filter =
verothacamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-22-2020, 04:02 PM   #15
owequitit
CB7tuner Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 7,666
owequitit is very helpful owequitit is very helpful owequitit is very helpful
Send a message via AIM to owequitit
Quote:
Originally Posted by verothacamaro View Post
I don't understand hydrogen personally since the infrastructure doesn't exist at all.

Compared to electricity, the infrastructure has been around for a hundred years. It is already in place. The marginal cost to scale up electric charging stations would be dramatically lower compared to hydrogen.

The inconvenience of charging will have to be improved or we'll have to make a cultural change.
Hydrogen has certain specific key advantages (and disadvantages at this point). Most importantly is power to weight. Hydrogen could be made available in the same vein as gas currently is, but it would take infrastructure development.

But then again, if you actually do the math on fleets upon fleets of electric vehicles, there is still a huge infrastructure change because our current grid is nowhere near being able to supply that. I think the new Tesla Superchargers are 250kW each. That means a bank of 4 is a MEGAWATT. Now multiply that by millions and you are talking SERIOUS juice. More importantly, the grid will have to supply the power to do it, which means massive generation, and the bigger problem here is that in many parts of the world, generation can't just be turned up or down with demand. So we either produce tons of wasted electricity during off peak times or limit charging to off peak times, which is going to make it a convenience hassle.

That doesn't even get into the realities of strip mining and all of the other crap that goes into producing billions of battery cells.

It is currently a perception of "I am not burning gas, so I am not killing the world" which is horrifically ignorant and short sighted of the reality.

The main promise of hydrogen is eventual scalability, complete renewability and it would reduce the number of precious metals and batteries required to so the same job, so in theory, more efficient use of resources. There are definitely some challenges though.

Personally, I think in the long term, H2 is better than pure electric.
owequitit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-23-2020, 12:09 PM   #16
fleetw00d
Contributing Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 2,853
fleetw00d is very helpful fleetw00d is very helpful
Electrolysis of water to generate hydrogen gas requires electricity - so there would still likely need to be an increase in generating capability.
fleetw00d is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:17 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.1
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.