GM and Chrysler ask for 21.6Billion More

[F22HB]

IMO, in the end it all comes down to the big cheeses not doing their job. They're so out of it that they don't even realize wtf is going on out in the real world. Same thing is happening at boeing, the people making the money and decisions don't give two shits as long as they get their nut. And honestly, the ones who get their salary's cut, laid off, hours cut, and lives screwed are the workers who make the company what it is. I say someone in the higher-ups needs to fall on their sword already, its fuckin shameful.

[owequitit]

IMO, in the end it all comes down to the big cheeses not doing their job. They're so out of it that they don't even realize wtf is going on out in the real world. Same thing is happening at boeing, the people making the money and decisions don't give two shits as long as they get their nut. And honestly, the ones who get their salary's cut, laid off, hours cut, and lives screwed are the workers who make the company what it is. I say someone in the higher-ups needs to fall on their sword already, its fuckin shameful.

The problem is that the CURRENT management didn't cause the problem. You can't blame them for someone else's fuck up. Did ya even read everything that has been said?

[F22HB]

No... goes and hides in the corner.

[starchland]

I think the reality is that (like teenagers) the domestic auto manufacters will never grow up and get wings their wings if we continue to bail them out. How can you run a company responsibly and efficiently if there is no accountability for spending someone elses money. Where is the money coming from? tax payers. Its starting to look alot like we may all be investing in GM/Chrsyler without any choice. Maybe this is what North America needs...is to fall flat on its face, and no help getting up. This will definately make the auto makers realize what they need to do.

[williamsvt]

The government should develop a plan where taxpayers should own shares in GM and Chrysler since essentially it is our money being spent now and in the future.

However, GM and Chrysler have said they plan to pay back the debt owed in the future. So, i'm not sure how a plan like this could be orchestrated.

If the companies do not come up with enough money to pay back the government then the government should obviously own shares in both company. This, however, goes against capitalism and goes more towards socialism with government holding shares in essentially private corporations.

People have been talking about this with the banks as well, where the gov't holds stakes in the banks (gov't --> owns partial parts in the banks).

This also goes along with the caps on Executive compensation and salaries in the banks and investing firms that have recieved government aid. These caps would stop executives from recieving large rewards, but puts hault to capitalistic behaviors and heads towards socialism.

[owequitit]

The government should develop a plan where taxpayers should own shares in GM and Chrysler since essentially it is our money being spent now and in the future.

However, GM and Chrysler have said they plan to pay back the debt owed in the future. So, i'm not sure how a plan like this could be orchestrated.

If the companies do not come up with enough money to pay back the government then the government should obviously own shares in both company. This, however, goes against capitalism and goes more towards socialism with government holding shares in essentially private corporations.

People have been talking about this with the banks as well, where the gov't holds stakes in the banks (gov't --> owns partial parts in the banks).

This also goes along with the caps on Executive compensation and salaries in the banks and investing firms that have recieved government aid. These caps would stop executives from recieving large rewards, but puts hault to capitalistic behaviors and heads towards socialism.

Basically, the easiest way would be for the "bailout" money to buy shares. Then when the companies pay the loans back, they get the shares back. It would essentially amount to a stock swap. The bonus to this that the Feds have the power that if GM were to say go belly up and liquidate, they are first in line to get paid. That protects the taxpayers interests.

Now, to avoid the socialistic part of it, here is where one of Dubya's ideas comes in handy. The stocks that are owned by the government work out to more of a guaranteed IOU than an "ownership" stake because they are non voting shares. That way, the government has no ability to vote or sway management on business decisions, they simply have a system for repayment. Then, to give the company incentive to buy back their shares sooner rather than later, you hit them with huge penalties if they still have the loans after a certain date.

Of course, you can also just make all of that a condition of the loans, which I think is essentially what they have done.

[williamsvt]

you have an answer to everything! haha

Well the new auto bailout is requesting 130 billion in loans which include, auto dealers, part suppliers, 'cash for clunkers', and deductable interest rates.

I think that 'cash for clunkers' is a great a way for the gov't to dispose of ineffiecient vehicles that are creating polution and hazard (removing vehicles that are most likely old anyways) from usage on the road forever (crushing them, and making sure the VIN is never used again). It will also get the auto industry moving, because the proposed deal would give the car buyer a 10,000 tax rebate. So say, you have a 91 jeep cherokee and you want to buy a NEW honda accord. According to this projected plan, one would be able to deduct 10,000 in their tax returns, however, the cash would have to be paid up front or through a loan.

Auto dealers need money to keep inventory. This is a touchy subject since the bailout rate for this is ranging from 5 to 20 billion. Car dealers must be after 3 months of having the vehicles from the manufactor and most car dealers are sitting on huge inventories of vehicles. Thus, they need a loan to help cover the payments that are being made to the manufactorers. Hence, buying time for buyers.

Part suppliers need $$ for the obvious reason that car companies are shutting down factories and the car parts companies aren't recieving the same profit or compensation that they've seen or had in the past.

Deductable interest would be granted for vehicles upto 49,500 i believe in loan. So, the interest on the loan could be deducted during tax time.

All in all, i'll be excited come april to go out and buy a new car, because they'll be alot of incentives that come with it.

[Fake Thug]

Incentives my ass. I'm not letting them feed me. When the government is the one giving the incentive you are still paying for it. Just not directly. Everything they are selling is bullshit. The tax cut is BS. I'm sorry. I have my flame suit on.

That $13 per week will be canceled out by the proposed tax increases by both my city and state. This city's idiot residents voted for a property tax increase last election cycle. Isn't it funny how non property owners can vote to raise property taxes?.. lol..

The state wants to install camera's at construction zones to photograph/ensnare motorists. The feds, CW of Mass. and North carolina are now talking about taxing motorists a quarter dollar per mile for every mile driven.

I wonder what the chances are that the big three will be nationalized. I mean this talk about taxpayer shares is kinda spookish. Car czar? How exactly did government get such a high vote of confidence? Cash for clunkers? How can anyone have a legitimate debate about pollution and clean air while completely ignoring the tabacco issue? .

[starchland]

To me there is something so wrong about having an incentive program for people that cant afford new vehicles to buy new ones that nobody wants to buy in the first place. Just for the fact that they want to get rid of stock and more fucking loans

[8ball]

^ amen to that. I have bad feeling that this stimulus isnt going to work and that mabye just maybe theyll make another stimulus plan. Eventually some one is going to want all the money we owe and start a war not a real war but maybe an outsource war. Like a reverse boycott.

[lo-specials]

(December 2008)


Chrysler collaborates with Tata Motors Limited of India: Tata's all-electric Ace mini truck will be sold through Chrysler's Global Electric Motorcars division. Chrysler announced in February 2008 that it would be reducing its product line from 30 models to 15 models. Chrysler was reported in August 2008 to be in talks with Fiat.

In October 2008, Cerberus and General Motors discussed an exchange of GM's 49% stake in GMAC for Chrysler, potentially merging two of Detroit's "Big Three" automakers.These talks did not come to fruition, and were discontinued the next month. On October 24, 2008, Chrysler announced a 25% cut (5,000 jobs) in its salaried and contract workforce in November 2008.Michigan Gov. Jennifer Granholm announced that she, along with 5 other governors, sent a letter to Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and Federal Reserve Chairman Ben Bernanke requesting emergency funding for the Detroit Big Three Automakers. On the same day, General Motors asked the Treasury Department of the United States for $10 billion to help restructure both their company and possible future sibling, Chrysler so that in turn, they can become one massive company.

On November 5, 2008 it has been published that Chrysler sales in the US market have fallen 34.9 percent in only 12 months. A week later, Chrysler CEO Robert Nardelli said, in a speech at an Ernst & Young conference, that the company can only remain viable by forming an alliance with another automaker, domestic or global, as well as receiving government assistance in the form of an equity stake.Several days later, Chrysler together with Ford and General Motors, sought financial aid at a Congressional hearing in Washington D.C. in the face of worsening conditions caused by the automotive industry crisis. All three companies were unsuccessful and were invited to draft a new action plan for the sustainability of the industry.

On November 25, 2008 The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety released their Top Safety Pick awards for the year. Seventy-two vehicles earned the Top Safety Pick award for 2009. This is more than double the number of 2008 recipients and more than 3 times the number of 2007 winners. However Chrysler LLC. is the only major automaker still lacking a single Top Safety Pick.

At the beginning of December 2008, Chrysler announced that they were dangerously low on cash and may not survive past 2009. On December 17, 2008, Chrysler announced that it planned to halt production at all 30 of its manufacturing plants through January 19, 2009. In addition, Chrysler announced that it would charge fees on dealers holding inventories of new cars and trucks that are unsold after more than 360 days, and will require immediate payment of all remaining balances on inventories of used vehicles that remain unsold after six months.[26] On December 19, President George W. Bush announced a $13.4 billion rescue loan for the American automakers, including Chrysler.

Chrysler's 2008 performance was hard hit among the Big Three U.S. automakers, with 398,119 automobiles and 1,055,003 trucks sold during the year.

Partnership with Fiat

On 20 January 2009, the Italian Fiat S.p.A. and Chrysler LLC announced that they have a non-binding term sheet to form a global alliance. Under the terms of the potential agreement, Fiat could take a 35% stake in Chrysler and gain access to its North American dealer network in exchange for providing Chrysler with the platform to build smaller, more fuel-efficient vehicles in the US and reciprocal access to Fiat's global distribution network.

They are still thinking of a partnership. Alfa Romeo (with Lancia the same company as Fiat) can return on the American market and giving Chrysler the technology of smaller high tech engines with more mpg. On the other hand, Alfa Romeo can use the rwd platform for the new Alfa 166.
So I think it would be better for both parties