Clicking boost solenoid & running lean

[toycar]

awesome, feels like I offered something here so I'm glad I could help. I hadn't heard the video until now, but as soon as I did I knew the ground was the issue. as you get voltage the valve opens to control boost. you get voltage as pressure builds in the manifold.

when you try and start the car, the valve wants to close (grounds through acc as you turn key to on) but if it's get voltage on ground, it's both trying to open and close hence the noise you were hearing.

glad you figured it out.

soldering tip;

I like the 3m shrink tube w/solder joints built in. well worth the money.


http://m.ebay.com/itm/50-pcs-RED-BLU...-SEAL-NO-CRIMP

[Raf99]

awesome, feels like I offered something here so I'm glad I could help. I hadn't heard the video until now, but as soon as I did I knew the ground was the issue. as you get voltage the valve opens to control boost. you get voltage as pressure builds in the manifold.

when you try and start the car, the valve wants to close (grounds through acc as you turn key to on) but if it's get voltage on ground, it's both trying to open and close hence the noise you were hearing.

glad you figured it out.

soldering tip;

I like the 3m shrink tube w/solder joints built in. well worth the money.


http://m.ebay.com/itm/50-pcs-RED-BLU...-SEAL-NO-CRIMP

Yep. gotta say if it weren't for you I wouldn't of solved this or would of went off on another path. Many thanks!

[Raf99]

Well..... i guess this problem is not solved after all. After the last drive the lean symptoms re-appeared. Stalled at a red light and was 16.0+ A/F before the stall. I brought it home and I've been picking away at it for a week now, checking all sensors, connectors, trying to determine what is going on.

I've come back to the forum to see if anyone can help me make sense of what S300 is telling me in regards to the issue.

1. Car will start and run fine / idle fine
2. When temps go up it seems the issues comes more often
3. Rev it up, when I let off the gas the idle catches itself. Sometimes the idle and A/F is fine when returning to idle. Sometimes it spikes to 16.0+ A/F and the car is not happy. This is where it will stall usually too.

Looking at some data ... (not really understanding the relationship here or what a graph should look like)......

This is me at idle, I blip the throttle and let off. Notice the A/F through the roof and then the S.trim starts rising. Rising because the A/F is off?? Or some other factor. Not sure here. Seems that something the ECU uses to kick in and stop the A/F from rising after coming to idle is not working. OR S.Trim fuel should kick in sooner? again, not sure...



This is me holding the rpms at around 2500. A/F bouncing from top to bottom. It's like the equivilant of a bad IACV but with my A/F. Driving at a constant speed down the road watching your A/F do this is disturbing.


MAP sensor wiring checks out, not sure if 21% PSI for a MAP is normal in S300
TPS shows in S300 and is registering properly
Temps are normal


...... that's all i got...

[93redcb7]

Well..... i guess this problem is not solved after all. After the last drive the rich symptoms re-appeared. Stalled at a red light and was 16.0+ A/F before the stall. I brought it home and I've been picking away at it for a week now, checking all sensors, connectors, trying to determine what is going on.

I've come back to the forum to see if anyone can help me make sense of what S300 is telling me in regards to the issue.

1. Car will start and run fine / idle fine
2. When temps go up it seems the issues comes more often
3. Rev it up, when I let off the gas the idle catches itself. Sometimes the idle and A/F is fine when returning to idle. Sometimes it spikes to 16.0+ A/F and the car is not happy. This is where it will stall usually too.

Looking at some data ... (not really understanding the relationship here or what a graph should look like)......

This is me at idle, I blip the throttle and let off. Notice the A/F through the roof and then the S.trim starts rising. Rising because the A/F is off?? Or some other factor. Not sure here. Seems that something the ECU uses to kick in and stop the A/F from rising after coming to idle is not working. OR S.Trim fuel should kick in sooner? again, not sure...



This is me holding the rpms at around 2500. A/F bouncing from top to bottom. It's like the equivilant of a bad IACV but with my A/F. Driving at a constant speed down the road watching your A/F do this is disturbing.


MAP sensor wiring checks out, not sure if 21% PSI for a MAP is normal in S300
TPS shows in S300 and is registering properly
Temps are normal


...... that's all i got...

have you checked for a vacuum leak? or maybe fuel pressure?

[sonikaccord]

Your STFT is pretty periodic, like it's not a random occurrence. It looks like a nice sawtooth waveform.

One cycle is about 1.5-2 seconds before your STFT starts repeating. Does the cycle frequency change based on engine rpm?

[Raf99]

Your STFT is pretty periodic, like it's not a random occurrence. It looks like a nice sawtooth waveform.

One cycle is about 1.5-2 seconds before your STFT starts repeating. Does the cycle frequency change based on engine rpm?

It does not change on engine rpm, just changes between idle and idle+. Then I still have the issue of the car running extremely rich after letting the throttle off. Rich enough to make it stall. She is not happy. Sometimes it will stay 16+A/F rich for a 10+ second period. So something is half broken or broken when the engine is hot. May take a while to figure this out. Would help if I had someone else's graph to compare to.

[toycar]

It does not change on engine rpm, just changes between idle and idle+. Then I still have the issue of the car running extremely rich after letting the throttle off. Rich enough to make it stall. She is not happy. Sometimes it will stay 16+A/F rich for a 10+ second period. So something is half broken or broken when the engine is hot. May take a while to figure this out. Would help if I had someone else's graph to compare to.

16 afr is lean. air to fuel ratio = afr. higher parts air to 1 part fuel = leaner.

no throttle = open loop

throttle = closed loop

you have a problem in your closed loop tune. can you post more data on the tune specifically?

my guess:

1.)either ground issue with temp sensure on thermostat housing
2.)bad throttle tip in configuration
3.) tps needs calibrated
4.) idle position sensor needs replaced/recalibratedoplar

it's normal for the car to go rich when you let off gas. you stop flow of air faster than ecumenical stops flow of fuel. going lean, has to have something to do with a readout from a sensor.

[Raf99]

16 afr is lean. air to fuel ratio = afr. higher parts air to 1 part fuel = leaner.

no throttle = open loop

throttle = closed loop

you have a problem in your closed loop tune. can you post more data on the tune specifically?

my guess:

1.)either ground issue with temp sensure on thermostat housing
2.)bad throttle tip in configuration
3.) tps needs calibrated
4.) idle position sensor needs replaced/recalibratedoplar

it's normal for the car to go rich when you let off gas. you stop flow of air faster than ecumenical stops flow of fuel. going lean, has to have something to do with a readout from a sensor.

Appreciate the lesson. And I agree on the sensor or a failing sensor part. I'll check the ground on the thermostat housing......

[Raf99]

Well issue still persists = Lean on idle to the point of stalling.

- Checked the thermostate ground = good
- Checked for loose vac hoses = none


From what I can see....
- IGN. After letting off the throttle it does not to return to 11deg., and rather stays at 18deg. for a little bit. In this time period is where the A/F goes up and stalling occurs.
-INJ. Stays the same
-ECT/IAT = normal








So just need to figure out what is telling IGN to do this. I'll figure it out eventually. Great to be able to play around in S300 for once.

[Raf99]

What's ironic about this pic is that the 3 wires that are cut go to the EGR solenoids which are not needed because I don't have a EGR. These 3 wires lead back to the ELD (2 signal, 1 Ground). I'm assuming S300 simply eliminates this somehow.

Anyways. The issue still remains. Lean condition after letting the gas off and returning to idle.

More data logs...

[toycar]

are you recirculating the turbo or atmospheric blow off?

has this always been an issue or something new?

is egr turned off?

it seems like the car is looking for a recirculation of fuel/burnable gas and perhaps the egr isn't turned off. just a though.

[Raf99]

are you recirculating the turbo or atmospheric blow off?

has this always been an issue or something new?

is egr turned off?

it seems like the car is looking for a recirculation of fuel/burnable gas and perhaps the egr isn't turned off. just a though.

Car hasn't changed. So this is going to be a sensor or something that is prematurely failing. Using recirc. for blow off. EGR is not turned off in S300, which is how the tuner set everything. I may try turning EGR off in S300 and see if it helps.

I'm starting to think a new battery and alternator may help. Afraid to send it to the tuner as he may be playing the same guessing game that i am.

Do you see the spots in the graph i am referring to?

[toycar]

Car hasn't changed. So this is going to be a sensor or something that is prematurely failing. Using recirc. for blow off. EGR is not turned off in S300, which is how the tuner set everything. I may try turning EGR off in S300 and see if it helps.

I'm starting to think a new battery and alternator may help. Afraid to send it to the tuner as he may be playing the same guessing game that i am.

Do you see the spots in the graph i am referring to?

yes I do

try venting the bov to the atmosphere.

on a MAF setup the dump has to recirculate because the air has already been accounted for in the expected fuel delivery. it measures the air as it flows through something that looks like a honeycomb.

on a MAP setup it's about throttle position, engine speed and pressure in the known volume of a manifold to guess. it uses pressure x known volume to determine expected fuel.


anyways, you let off the gas, 0 throttle(part of fuel delivery equation), when this happens but a pressurized burst of air is pushing into the manifold, since you recirculate. no fuel + pressurized air = lean. detecting pressure could beasily part of the ignition advance as well, which could explain everything going on in one shot.

try venting and see what that does.

I'd for sure turn off egr if you are not running egr.


Ok, I'll just yank the hose. I don't think EGR disabled does anything when the ECU may not be looking for it (S300 ECU and not a OEM ECU).

[Raf99]

Well i took a stab at this again. By unplugging the vacume line on the BOV just made the rpms go weird and caused the BOV to stay closed. It didn't help the idle issue.

So issue still persists. After letting the throttle off the A/F ratio goes through the roof. Looks like I'll just have to let the tuner sort this out. Kind of disappointed in myself for not being able to figure it out. You can see in the graph there is a rise in the A/F for a period after it reaches idle. During this period it wants to stall.



2nd example

[toycar]

Well i took a stab at this again. By unplugging the vacume line on the BOV just made the rpms go weird and caused the BOV to stay closed. It didn't help the idle issue.

So issue still persists. After letting the throttle off the A/F ratio goes through the roof. Looks like I'll just have to let the tuner sort this out. Kind of disappointed in myself for not being able to figure it out. You can see in the graph there is a rise in the A/F for a period after it reaches idle. During this period it wants to stall.



2nd example

so what I was talking about is atmospheric discharge. if you pull the vacation line it will want to stay closed always and run all stupid.

try pulling the recirculation tube from the bov.