f22a4 w/ dual stage intake manifold?

[Guero112]

i have a 92 accord ex MT f22a4 with a dual stage intake manifold. no swapping of anything has been done to her. so i was wondering, if the PT6 ecu is required in order to run the iab's for dual stage intake manifolds, is it likely that my f22a4 poses a PT6 ecu? and if so would swapping heads for n f22a6 really be that essential?

i have been collecting parts to rebuild my f22a4 as is. if i can send my camshaft to be regrinded then that would defeat the purpose of the more aggressive camshaft feature that has become the reasoning for the swap(that and springs). although the head will be rebuilt, i wont be doing any bisimoto purchases till i get boost.. i.e. better springs and turbo regrind.

Also i would like to hone out the intake a little bit.. i read up on alekks77's extrude intake honing and i was wondering if this was possible with the iabs left alone or would i need those modified as well?

[deevergote]

The F22A4 is a 90-91 EX engine. That engine was swapped. If you didn't do it, a previous owner did. Your car should originally have had an F22A6. Your ECU should already be a PT6, and will operate the IAB.

Extrude Honing an intake manifold won't offer much gains, especially if the engine hasn't been extensively modified. To be quite honest, you might want to look into a more performance-oriented manifold if you want to do something so costly.

[Guero112]

The F22A4 is a 90-91 EX engine. That engine was swapped. If you didn't do it, a previous owner did. Your car should originally have had an F22A6. Your ECU should already be a PT6, and will operate the IAB.

Extrude Honing an intake manifold won't offer much gains, especially if the engine hasn't been extensively modified. To be quite honest, you might want to look into a more performance-oriented manifold if you want to do something so costly.

no doubt that it could've been and mostly was swapped but i have like 333,777 miles on the dash and its time to rebuild due to cylinder 3 going bad so maybe they put in a not so good engine?

and ok. im really waiting for those 30 posts so i CAN make an MRT but so far ive collected and gathered: cast pistons set w/ pins and rings at .5 over, ITM Timing kit and Aisin water pump, cheap gaskets save for the Multi-Layered(5 layers to of steel to be exact)head gasket and Viton valve seals, new valves w/ nitrided coating, and Kupp Stage 1 clutch kit w? flywheel.
im so ready for my build but you say honing my intake would be pointless at the moment? should i venture into exhaust side head port instead?

[deevergote]

That engine is older than the car it's in, so it's entirely possible that it has plenty of miles on it.

You'd benefit more from a full P&P of the head itself, if you're really going serious with your build. The exhaust ports are the most restrictive part, but a proper port and polish of the whole head will offer much better results. No point in halfassing it.

And yes, extrude honing the manifold will offer some gains, but it's a costly thing for the gains you'll get. That's one of those "icing on the cake" mods, used to squeeze out every last bit of power. If you're doing it to an F22A6 manifold, it's a waste. I would AT LEAST use an H23A1 manifold. Better yet, an H22A manifold with an adapter... or even better, a full custom manifold (perhaps with ITBs.)
Don't get blinded by fancy mods. Do things that will present a reasonable cost for the goals you wish to accomplish. You could but 10 grand into a full engine build and barely break 220whp.


Also, if you want to make an MRT, you can do it in the Beginner Image Gallery. As long as you follow all the formatting rules of the Members Rides section, you can ask for it to be moved once you have 30 posts. Of course, you're only 3 away right now, so I suppose there's no point.

[Guero112]

i will definitely keep all this in mind, except for the manifold swapping. im sticking to a complete f-series build. and now that we've kinda concluded that atleast the block was swapped is there anyway of confirming the type of head i have? of course there is right.. i'll check

1 more to go...

[deevergote]

The camshaft should be stamped differently if it's an A6 camshaft vs the A1 and A4 camshaft (the A4 is essentially identical to the A1 in every way, aside from the tubular exhaust manifold.)

That A6 manifold is going to be a major choking point for your build. You could always swap on an F20B manifold

[Guero112]

I've definitely thought of some exhaust ideas. But now that I don't/don't know have the f22a4 4 2 1 style ex. mani. I really got consider full scale exhaust upgrade including aforementioned p&p of cylinder head which is exciting but also heart wrenching for my pockets. Wat is the deev's and anyone else's opinion(those whom are qualified to form one) about the infamous ebay header exhaust combo's not including megan or pacesetters. I'm talking about the more frugal type.

[cgr-honda]

The ebay headers are good for some gains. Not much, but better than a cast manifold. The ebay exhaust systems are a rough fit but can work well. The muffler that comes on those usually sound terrible just as a heads up though.

[deevergote]

The A6 cast manifold is honestly probably just as good as the A4's tubular manifold. You should have one or the other, seeing as it would make no sense for you to have an A1 manifold on there.

The ebay headers, as said, will offer minimal gains at best. Many are known to fit poorly, leak, and crack. Some last for a very long time, though. That's the problem with cheap stuff... it's inconsistent. You could get lucky, or you could get crap. The price is often worth the gamble, though.

However, it sounds like you're interested in doing a rather serious build. If you're going to upgrade your internals and modify your head, don't you think it would be rather silly to choke it with a small stock intake manifold, and send the exhaust out through a cheap Chinese header/exhaust combo? Also, you're replacing all your internal stuff with non-F22A parts, so you're already turning it into something else.

What are your goals for this build? Having a clear goal in mind will help keep you focused, and help others tell you what you need (or where you're going wrong.)

[Guero112]

well for starters its more of a budget issue rather than preference at this point.thus the cast iron piston selection over the forged steel kind. i have minimal cash to spend but i need lots of work. right now i'm focusing on getting my baby back to running like she was in '92 lol. while at them same time knocking out some modifications and add-ons such as: p&p, new valves, and stage 1 clutch. the ebay exhaust is a cheap and affective replacement for the meantime. i'm looking to be replacing EVERYTHING eventually so i think this current setup is sufficient enough to get me my 125-135 stock hp back plus 30-50 more ponies of mods and add ons..
i might be a little optimistic but i have good intensions. Any turbo plans will be put off for a while but thats where i would like to end up.

anymore and all advice and help already given is and will be highly appreciated.

[deevergote]

There are no cast iron pistons. Only aluminum. And if turbo is your goal, you'd be very wise to get rods and pistons capable of handling turbo NOW, or you'll be doing this rebuild all over again when you want to install a turbo system (or after you install one and blow the engine up!) At the moment, Bisimoto's $450 turbo piston deal is the cheapest I'm aware of. There may be cheaper, but I can't find it.

I'd forgo the P&P, especially since it won't make much difference with a turbo, and spend that extra money on proper forged internals.

[cgr-honda]

I agree with deev on building now, instead of building later. Bisi uses Arias pistons, but with his own specs. The exhaust side of the head is a choke point, even with turbo you could see small benefits. These heads are one of the best flowing heads Honda ever made after a proper p&p. I actualy am rebuilding now, because I should have before and I wish I did before I put the turbo on.

[deevergote]

Are Bisi's cheap pistons Arias? The site says "manufactured by Bisimoto Engineering"... though I know Bisimoto doesn't have the tooling to forge pistons.

I'd ask Bisi, but I'm not so sure we're on very good terms anymore.

[Guero112]

Are Bisi's cheap pistons Arias? The site says "manufactured by Bisimoto Engineering"... though I know Bisimoto doesn't have the tooling to forge pistons.

I'd ask Bisi, but I'm not so sure we're on very good terms anymore.

I received a message a while back from julio @bisimoto he informed me that I would have to bore outt to 86mm for those pistons. And they definitely are Arias™

I would also like to apologize for some misinformation on my part. At first I heard that aluminum pistons were capable of handling up 300hp. As far fetched as that sounds, I still find it possible if for even 3secs of engine life before the motor blew. Those numbers sound nice but I also want a reliable daily driver. The turbo,if do decide to get would be for a gain no more 200-250whp tops. But I'm starting to feel silly cuz I think I could possibly make those numbers w/o turbo but keep same setup. Perhaps with an aftermarket fuel rail, bigger injectors, and a decent I/H/E to replace all the cheap temp. crap.

[deevergote]

Forged pistons are aluminum. Forged aluminum, rather than cast. Cast aluminum pistons won't hold turbo very long. Certainly not our cast pieces, anyway. Ringlands will break, even at a modest 250whp. That is why forged pistons are a necessity.
Cast iron pistons would be WAY too heavy! Have you ever held a piston? Light as a feather.

250whp would require a LOT of work, including some serious internal work. A friend of mine is making about 250whp with a fully built F22A, and he has nearly $10,000 sunk into it. N/A is not cheap, and beyond 165whp or so, you start hitting some majorly expensive modifications. Also, a 250whp N/A F22A would be an absolute terror to drive on the street (and I don't mean that in a good way... it would be a miserable daily driver.)

Go turbo. 250whp with forged internals and a properly built turbo system, tuned by someone that knows what they're doing, will be a very streetable car. If you can go easy with the right foot, you could even expect to get decent fuel economy.
You'll have to bore with any piston you choose, most likely. Be careful how much, as you don't want to weaken the sleeves. The F22A has an open deck design, and weakened sleeves could crack rather easily.


If I was doing what you're doing, I'd do this:
Treadstone turbo kit
Quality forged pistons (even if I had to custom-order them)
Midrange rods
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
RC injectors (I'm thinking 550cc, but I'd need to research to be absolutely certain that was large enough.)
A quality head gasket (Cometic, or possibly just OEM)
ARP head studs and rod bolts (if the rods I choose don't already come with them.)
Exedy Stage 3 clutch
P06 ECU with a tuning program chosen by a trusted local tuner (likely Crome or Neptune.)

Not including all seals, gaskets, bearings, etc... I'm quite sure I've already topped $4000... That's not even including things you've mentioned, such as headwork, and certainly not extrude honing anything!


Stay focused. Budget accordingly, and don't spend on anything that isn't going to help you achieve your goal. Certain mods that are primarily N/A will be detrimental if turbo is the ultimate goal (some people like to say they want a Delta 272 camshaft, or a Bisimoto Stage 2 camshaft... N/A camshafts are TERRIBLE for turbo! Turbo head flow and N/A head flow are significantly different!)