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Old 07-08-2015, 10:45 PM   #1
93redcb7
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colt vs bisi

So ive searched and searched and searched for an alternative to bisi cam(because i think 400$ for a regrind is a bit expensive) and ive come across colt and they seem to have a very interesting design
http://www.coltcams.com/html/tri_flo...logy/index.cfm
as you can read here, but what im really looking for is actual experience between the 2
forced induction
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...70#post3211270
^ build at the moment
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:07 AM   #2
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Swirl works great at low rpm, as the piston speeds are low. But at high rpm you have high piston speeds and the valves aren't open very long, so you want the valves to be open as long as possible to let the pistons suck in as much air as they can.

Thus, theoretically the Colt cams should give you a power boost at low rpm, but lose some power at high rpm. Maybe Colt has figured out how to minimize the high rpm loss while delivering good low rpm power - and maybe not.

Note that Webcams regrinds Bisi's cams for them - you can order directly from Webcams if you want.
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Old 07-09-2015, 10:07 AM   #3
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Web won't sell you Bisi's specs, however.
Although I don't have any experience with Bisi's camshafts, I have had a good deal of experience with the aftermath of his product quality and business practices. I know of TWO cb7tuner members (one all the way in Europe) that have purchased camshafts from Bisi that were WAY out of spec. One was practically unusable, and the other (the one in Europe) may actually be a completely stock, unmodified camshaft (still waiting on measurements to confirm.) Bisimoto seemed to have made it a point to stop returning the calls for both customers.

I have never heard of Colt, but based on what I've both witnessed and experienced with Bisi, I would choose the unknown before going with Bisimoto products.


As for other options, Delta has always done right by us, and Gude still makes an F22A camshaft (if you don't mind dealing with their horrid customer service... I've only heard of one Gude cam snapping in an F22A.)
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:24 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Web won't sell you Bisi's specs, however.
Although I don't have any experience with Bisi's camshafts, I have had a good deal of experience with the aftermath of his product quality and business practices. I know of TWO cb7tuner members (one all the way in Europe) that have purchased camshafts from Bisi that were WAY out of spec. One was practically unusable, and the other (the one in Europe) may actually be a completely stock, unmodified camshaft (still waiting on measurements to confirm.) Bisimoto seemed to have made it a point to stop returning the calls for both customers.

I have never heard of Colt, but based on what I've both witnessed and experienced with Bisi, I would choose the unknown before going with Bisimoto products.


As for other options, Delta has always done right by us, and Gude still makes an F22A camshaft (if you don't mind dealing with their horrid customer service... I've only heard of one Gude cam snapping in an F22A.)
yes but as for good stories there are probably a 1000 from bisi, i read here that from one person that theirs was way out of spec but really 2/1000 is pretty good odds it seems. But the bad customer service is definitely not ok. i may order the delta cam cause i know they are good also(as i have them in my H motor also). BUT has anyone used them for a turbo cam? do they even make a turbo cam? or just the generic 272?
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:32 PM   #5
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As far as I know, just the generic cams (which people say work well for turbo, but I'm not a fan of the large overlap from an N/A cam in a turbo setup, blowing fresh air and fuel into a hot turbo...)

Bisi is focusing more on higher-end brands now, and his attention to Honda is fading. Customer service and product quality have begun declining at a much greater rate since then. If you've noticed, there is no longer a Bisimoto presence on this forum. Due to his poor treatment of my members, I have cut all ties. It was that bad.
You may be right. I may have only seen the negative, and not the positive. Pure luck may even be on your side, that you get something worth buying from Bisi. Still, my personal feelings are that he should be avoided at all costs.

What sort of power are you looking for? I was about to say that you can make plenty of power with a stock camshaft (and you can...) but the two most powerful turbo cars on this site are both running Bisimoto cams... dammit.
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:43 PM   #6
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http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...70#post3211270

400whp
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Old 07-09-2015, 01:47 PM   #7
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400whp SHOULD be doable with the stock camshaft. I'm quite certain I've seen that accomplished with lesser parts than you're using.

(also, I know here is not the place for it, but the F22 is no better than the H22 for boost... worse, in fact, than the closed-deck H22A found in the 4th gen... but you're absolutely right about it being a cheaper option, which makes it a good choice. I didn't read through all the comments on your post there, but I would expect 400whp to be the safe limit of stock F22A sleeves.)
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Old 07-09-2015, 03:24 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
400whp SHOULD be doable with the stock camshaft. I'm quite certain I've seen that accomplished with lesser parts than you're using.

(also, I know here is not the place for it, but the F22 is no better than the H22 for boost... worse, in fact, than the closed-deck H22A found in the 4th gen... but you're absolutely right about it being a cheaper option, which makes it a good choice. I didn't read through all the comments on your post there, but I would expect 400whp to be the safe limit of stock F22A sleeves.)
yea the motor i got they were kinda egg shaped, and i only want to build it once so i just got the darton MID sleeves. at this point its not really a "cheaper" built besides the cost of the motor itself but the reason i went this route was so that i could still DD my car with the H in it while im building the F
the reason i want a cam is because that means less boost=less heat=happier motor=lasts longer
also the reason why i went with OS valves
it seems every build over about 300whp i can find uses atleast the bisi 1.2 or i found 1 i think that had delta 260

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Old 07-09-2015, 04:01 PM   #9
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Ah, I missed the sleeves in your thread (if they were listed.) In that case, it should be all but bulletproof.

Colt's website isn't working for me. Do they have a specific turbo cam?
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Old 07-09-2015, 08:35 PM   #10
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Ah, I missed the sleeves in your thread (if they were listed.) In that case, it should be all but bulletproof.

Colt's website isn't working for me. Do they have a specific turbo cam?
They don't but they have a tri-flow cam. Seems interesting to me, I've never really heard of it before but it kinda makes sense
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Old 07-10-2015, 09:36 AM   #11
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Get in touch with Derek or Rob @ DDTech and see what he can do for you. I'm sure he can grind you up a cam to suit your needs. http://www.ddtechcams.com/contact/

The price is still going to be in the same range though. You are not going to find a good quality performance cam for these engines for much less. Unless it is used!
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Old 07-10-2015, 10:12 AM   #12
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Check out the Delta 272. I ran it in my turbo setup and had no issues out of it and it sounded awesome, especially when it was running open dump.
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Old 07-10-2015, 02:17 PM   #13
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How much overlap does the 272 have?

As mentioned above. If there is overlap you will be loosing a percentage of your boost capabilities the more overlap the cam profile has. It may run good with no apparent issues. But I bet with a turbo cam profile, or one with no overlap it will run much better and more efficiently!

If the 272 has little to no overlap then it would be a good candidate for a boosted application. Most camshafts designed for N/A make use of longer duration or higher lift in conjunction with an overlap. there are those that don't use overlap though. I haven't looked into the delta grinds.
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Old 07-10-2015, 03:46 PM   #14
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How much overlap does the 272 have?

As mentioned above. If there is overlap you will be loosing a percentage of your boost capabilities the more overlap the cam profile has. It may run good with no apparent issues. But I bet with a turbo cam profile, or one with no overlap it will run much better and more efficiently!

If the 272 has little to no overlap then it would be a good candidate for a boosted application. Most camshafts designed for N/A make use of longer duration or higher lift in conjunction with an overlap. there are those that don't use overlap though. I haven't looked into the delta grinds.
I'm not sure actually but if bisi doesn't come down on their price I will likely call delta I've heard of people using a 272-2 for turbo setups so I'll ask them about what would be best fit
But if bisi comes down to say 300 I'll probably buy theirs, but I feel 400$ for a regrind is to high when delta does it for 95$.. Yes I understand R&D makes things more expensive but 300$ more for every cam is a bit crazy
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Old 07-10-2015, 05:47 PM   #15
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The 272 is intended to be a mid-level N/A cam, so I would assume the overlap is fairly significant. Overlap is very useful for a naturally aspirated engine. For turbo, not so much. I mean, it'll work (cheeseboner's car worked quite well...) but it's not an ideal profile. I've never heard of anyone blowing their turbo up by forcing unburned air and fuel into it... but the very idea of that possibility with a high overlap camshaft terrifies me!
I wouldn't do it, but people have done it with success.

Another option is to call Delta and inquire about a custom grind. It might cost a bit more, but I don't see why they couldn't make a custom camshaft that offers more lift than stock, but less overlap than any of their off-the-shelf offerings.
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Old 07-11-2015, 12:06 AM   #16
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The 272 is intended to be a mid-level N/A cam, so I would assume the overlap is fairly significant. Overlap is very useful for a naturally aspirated engine. For turbo, not so much. I mean, it'll work (cheeseboner's car worked quite well...) but it's not an ideal profile. I've never heard of anyone blowing their turbo up by forcing unburned air and fuel into it... but the very idea of that possibility with a high overlap camshaft terrifies me!
I wouldn't do it, but people have done it with success.

Another option is to call Delta and inquire about a custom grind. It might cost a bit more, but I don't see why they couldn't make a custom camshaft that offers more lift than stock, but less overlap than any of their off-the-shelf offerings.
yea i ended up getting the bisi cam since ive never heard of DDcams and seems no one has any feedback about coltcams. i probably should have called delta(considering they are like a 45 min drive from my house lol) and seen what they could do for me.. but bisi(jannet) did give me a discount off my order. i ended up getting their cam gear, intake gasket and headgasket with the cam. thanks for the feedback i did get. though i went with whats been proven besides the 2 incidents that have happened.
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Old 07-11-2015, 09:44 AM   #17
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If you know how to measure a camshaft, measure the Bisi cam when you get it to make sure it is what you expect it to be.
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Old 07-11-2015, 01:37 PM   #18
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If you know how to measure a camshaft, measure the Bisi cam when you get it to make sure it is what you expect it to be.
yes i will for sure and i will post results
im not 100% sure how to.. but google knows all
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Old 07-12-2015, 10:34 PM   #19
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I put the degree wheel on the camshaft instead of the crankshaft. You have to multiply everything by 2 and it's not as accurate, but if the head is off the engine it's a lot easief to do and it is still accurate to a degree or two.
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Old 07-13-2015, 12:53 AM   #20
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I put the degree wheel on the camshaft instead of the crankshaft. You have to multiply everything by 2 and it's not as accurate, but if the head is off the engine it's a lot easief to do and it is still accurate to a degree or two.
i dont have a cam degreeing kit unfortunately
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