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Old 09-30-2019, 04:40 PM   #1
NSCB15
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H22a head with F23 block?

So im almost done my JDM H22a swap in my 92 coupe.
During the process I needed some parts and ended up trading a h2u5 and a h series transmissions and a box of cb7 parts for a JDM H22a head, and a spare intake manifold, basically got all the extra parts I possibly wouldve needed if anything went wrong during my swap. ( ended up getting some parts i needed to finish )

So, now im left with a Spare jdm h22a head, and im left wondering what i should do with it. any suggestion? I've read a bit up on using the f23 block. unfortunately but kind of fortunate, if i went this route, we broke a H22a water pump, which leaves me with the " gear " off of it, so if I did go this route, it would save me that.

Any advice or suggestions would be Great
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Old 10-01-2019, 12:09 PM   #2
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Head swaps tend to be unreliable. If this is just a toy, then by all means, give it a go! If you’re expecting a reliable daily driver, find yourself an H22 block.

That being said, you can probably find some more details by searching for “G22” or “G23” on this forum. Those terms are dumb, but they were frequently used a few years back when discussing headswaps.

I haven’t done such a thing myself, so I don’t have any firsthand info to share, unfortunately.
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Old 10-01-2019, 03:35 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Head swaps tend to be unreliable. If this is just a toy, then by all means, give it a go! If you’re expecting a reliable daily driver, find yourself an H22 block.

That being said, you can probably find some more details by searching for “G22” or “G23” on this forum. Those terms are dumb, but they were frequently used a few years back when discussing headswaps.

I haven’t done such a thing myself, so I don’t have any firsthand info to share, unfortunately.

Thanks deevergote, yeah im mostly just looking for opinions, if they make good power compared to a straight h22a. If I was to do it, due to it being unreliable i would find a Civic of some sort and throw it in possibly, im just thinking what i could do with this head. ofcourse im going to try to make a full h22a with it. Original plan is to either n/a build it and aim for 240/250 to the wheels. or prep it for turbo along with a block.

-edit, and i have read some of the threads on "g22/23" swaps, just was hoping for first hand opinions.
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Old 10-01-2019, 11:10 PM   #4
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People swear by them, but generally just broke shadetree mechanics. You never see anyone who knows what they're doing (or has more than two pennies to rub together) doing it. It became popular for a couple of reasons. Grabbing a head off of a Prelude in the junkyard is easier than grabbing the whole block, and H22A FRM sleeves have been known to eat rings and glaze because of how hard the metallurgy is. So we have a condition with lots of H22A heads, and lots of folks who want to have "DOHC VTEC" in their engine bay when they pop the hood.

In order to make it "work" the right way, you'll need to purchase H22A timing components, and mate together the water pipe from an F22A/H23A1 with the correct one from the H22A. On top of that, you'll need the intake manifold and exhaust manifold/header. After you've purchased all those things, chances are you really haven't saved anything over going out and buying a running H22A.

But that's not the worst part about it. The head has a combustion chamber volume of nearly 2cc more than the F22A head currently on your block. Put this head on top of the F22A block and you'll have even worse compression than the F22A does even now (8.8:1). In addition to this, the combustion chamber diameter on the H22A is 2mm wider than the F22A bore, so you'd have a far less than desirable quench effect during the combustion process.

All that said, there are tons of people on the Honda Facebook groups who will tell you that it works flawlessly and it's easy. His "boy" has had it running for years and that guy Jarrett on CB7Tuner is stupid. That person also likely has a profile picture with a snarled lip and flipping off the camera, so take it as you will.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:26 AM   #5
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The response Jarrett wrote is true.

It is also a known fact that if you use heads that are designed for larger bores with a smaller bore (this goes for all engines not just Honda’s), you will see an additional loss of flow and thusly, power. This is due to shrouding, meaning the valves are in close proximity to the cylinder walls or head castings. This has an even greater net loss effect in addition to the loss of quench area and, in the case of the h22/23 Heads, increased head volume.

What does this mean in real life? You can make great power with any h22/23 Head/block combo, even poorly matched, no doubt. And in a small car like an EG or CRX, really lay the smack down even with a truly bad combo. But, you will have much better overall power, and ability to use lower octane/or higher compression ratios... IF no matter which block you use, you use a BORE at least as big, or BIGGER than the original bore the HEAD came on.

The other advantage to this is you can run tighter quench, resulting in increase BMEP, so you can potentially make more average torque, by using less cam duration. That means bigger HP numbers without having to rev to 8500 RPM.
So you can have more power, more drivability and less bad MPG if you optimize the setup. But it won’t be even close to optimized if you have a big bore head on a small bore block. It just can’t be. It pretty much becomes a street rat, run it until it blows, then throw it away.

Last edited by Bailey_CatDaddy; 10-02-2019 at 01:29 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 01:44 AM   #6
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I just calc'd it all out as it has been a while since I've cared to. The net static compression ratio would be 8.4:1.

Normally, I tell people just to go buy an H23A VTEC. They're under $1000 and they're extremely similar to an H22A, with a couple of differences that are easily addressed.

In your case, it's not worth going to buy a whole separate car just to put an engine in that you technically don't fully own yet and would have to spend even more money to finish building.
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:15 AM   #7
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Thanks guys, that was the input I was looking for! I guess it would be worth it if I had all the parts already, wouldn't be that much of hassle to accumulate them. But in the end its still going to be a frank swap. be alot more then just putting the Head on a H22 block.

Now to keep my eyes peeled for a H22a block, and prep the two for turbo or n/a build, and put it in the cb7.

Last edited by NSCB15; 10-02-2019 at 08:18 AM.
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Old 10-02-2019, 09:36 AM   #8
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Good luck! You could send the spare head out for porting and it would really be a nice upgrade.
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Old 10-02-2019, 10:07 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Bailey_CatDaddy View Post
Good luck! You could send the spare head out for porting and it would really be a nice upgrade.
There's an idea! At this point in the year, wait until Black Friday and hop on one of 4Piston's deals. You can get a CNC head job from them for a REALLY good price at that time.
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Old 10-02-2019, 12:55 PM   #10
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Yeah guys, I'll definitely get head work done etc. I have a bit of research to do to figure out what my best route is going to be. I think i found some darton sleeves local for $3-400. If i was to buy them i'd have no spare block to get them put in at this point in time, but if i was to buy them they are half price *shrugs*
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Old 10-02-2019, 08:25 PM   #11
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If you look up lodollar92lx, you’ll see what he did with an F22 block and H22 head. He made nice power, but it was problematic. He said he wouldn’t bother cobbling together two engines if he were to try it again.
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Old 10-03-2019, 02:11 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
If you look up lodollar92lx, you’ll see what he did with an F22 block and H22 head. He made nice power, but it was problematic. He said he wouldn’t bother cobbling together two engines if he were to try it again.
Thanks! I checked out his mrt. even without pictures it sounds like it was a wicked weapon. It appears he has been inactive on his mrt. Appreciate the info I found out from it.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:58 PM   #13
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Yeah, he sold it a while back. Moved on to some crazy stuff... gtr, v10 R8 (that replaced his V8 R8 ), NSX, Supra... he did something right! Runs his own shop now.
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Old 10-04-2019, 08:00 AM   #14
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Yeah, he sold it a while back. Moved on to some crazy stuff... gtr, v10 R8 (that replaced his V8 R8 ), NSX, Supra... he did something right! Runs his own shop now.

Yeah, thats a little self explanatory haha!
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