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CyborgGT: Mild H22A Build

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    #91
    I'd never seen that design before, very unique.
    "Self Renewed"

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      #92
      ^ Neither had I, so I was excited as hell since it meant I didn't have to make one just like it out of fiberglass, like I was planning until I saw one of those in a car in Honda Tuning.

      But I think I am finally ready, financially, to dig into this build! It's been a long wait, and it'll probably take a little over a year to collect all the parts, but if I've kept motivated even without owning an Accord, this is definitely going to happen.

      I have my list of parts (a couple cheaper prices have been found since that last post), and the plan is to move from store to store, buying from each in one large bulk order before moving on to the next dealer. The exception being today. I was about to order the one and only item I needed from Phearable.net when I noticed Summit had it a few bucks cheaper shipped. So despite a later large order from Summit, I went ahead and got this thing anyway: an analog AEM EGT (exhaust gas temperature) gauge to stick in my glove box with the wideband. I should be ordering the ARP head studs (again, a store needed for just one thing) next weekend.



      I also saw a BB6 donut and valve cover in a junkyard and grabbed those - the wheel being for my later 5-lug conversion. Hey, I couldn't pass up a near-new tire for $10. The VC will be re-painted but remain unmodified for an OEM look. Besides protecting the timing belt, I don't want to put at risk all that work Keele put into my custom cover by having it on all the time.



      *ED - Turned it into this, with BMW's Monaco Blue Metallic (paint code A35) - the planned color for my wagon.

      Last edited by CyborgGT; 11-26-2014, 01:53 AM.

      Accord Aero-R

      Comment


        #93
        This popped up on Craigslist: a PRB (RSX-S) intake manifold.






        ^ I wasn't expecting velocity stacks in a factory manifold, that's bad ass.

        Based on these two shots I found, of a Civic Si's RBC manifold mounted in a CD Accord, and a size comparison of the two manifolds, I thought it was worth seeing for myself whether the smaller intake would fit. I was looking into this swap a while back and thought about picking up a CTR's RRC intake since the runners were shorter than the RBC's, but they're pricey. $50 for the PRB, and if it works out, I'll look into size comparisons and see about upgrading to a Type-R.


        ^ a custom rear mount would have to be made to accommodate the RBC in an Accord or Prelude



        Setting the head on my block, loose-fitting the rear engine bracket, and holding the manifold in place by hand, I'd say the most I'm going to have to do is notch the bracket - the throttle body flange doesn't go near hitting my small ESP mount. I can't speak for either of the bulkier stock mounts, but once I get the QSD adapter and bolt this thing down, I'll know for sure and share my experience.

        If all fails, I can still mount the thing on my base RSX. Win-win.
        Last edited by CyborgGT; 08-03-2014, 02:16 PM.

        Accord Aero-R

        Comment


          #94
          Okay, so I got distracted. Bought some wheels for the RSX, did some other things. But I think I'm officially content with putting that car on hold for at least the winter so I can get back to this. Just placed an order through Summit Racing, grabbing all of the things I'd planned from them except for the ATI crank pulley damper...

          Catco cat. 2.5", stainless, promises of reliability and good flow...


          DEI gold heat tape. Good for continuous 850*F abuse, can handle spikes up to 2000*. The intake pipe will be wrapped in this, as well as the part of the oil pan that the downpipe is close to. This is a 2" by 30' roll, so I'm sure I'll put more to functional use.


          K&N Apollo intake. Universal, 70mm inlet. Don't know why the black is so much cheaper than the red, but at least it's the color I want.


          Professional Products 68mm cast aluminum ITR "Power" throttle body. This is the TB that Rosko Racing recommends with the Euro-R manifold, and that's what I plan on getting. Supposedly cast throttles are less likely to stick than a lot of the billet units in the aftermarket. Originally I was going to go with the satin aluminum look with my intake to look more factory, but I recently changed my mind and sprang the extra few bucks for polished. Going to have my manifold polished as well, inspired by Alfa Romeo's efforts in making their engines look pretty. Between my custom valve cover and planned Bisi header... I may as well complete the image.


          The next hit probably won't happen until January, since I'm going back and forth between this project and sprucing up my apartment...
          Last edited by CyborgGT; 11-13-2014, 08:27 PM.

          Accord Aero-R

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            #95
            Oil pan, sans the planned magnetic drain plug



            *ED. 11.23: I could be getting a used Bisimoto header in January... as long as no one else skimps on their holiday spending to be selfish, lol. I'm going on a road trip and the seller (anyone see that red 3rd-gen Prelude with the F20B in the 'Know Your Roots' issue of Honda Tuning?) happens to live in my old town, which is one of my stops. Pray for me!
            Last edited by CyborgGT; 11-23-2014, 05:05 PM.

            Accord Aero-R

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              #96
              So that vacation had to be cancelled and I got in touch with the guy to have his Bisi header shipped with the plan of buying it today - this happened about a month ago. Someone else jumped in a couple days ago, and the seller didn't care to wait. However, they're not too hard to come by, so I've moved on. I'm talking to a seller now for a Rosko-prepped Euro-R intake manifold.

              This, by the way, might be of interest to anyone hoping to get one of these manifolds for their build. Here's a conversation I had with Rosko over at Prelude Power. There's some bonus stuff about Rosko's Prelude H2B kit, although when I posed the question, I hadn't thought of the obvious fact that Prelude mounts don't work in Accords, so the chassis mounting points would of course not be the same. Personally, I don't see the point for the swap when transmissions can be custom geared, but I was curious. Anyway...

              January 4, 2013:

              Originally posted by Apex1972 View Post
              Is there any problem with availability on the euro r at this time?
              February 21, 2013:

              Originally posted by Rosko View Post
              Yeah, I've been waiting on an order since October, should be here soon but all are spoken for already. Another shipment is supposedly coming in several weeks behind that one but who knows. I deffinately cannot get as many as I would like.
              Yesterday:

              Originally posted by CyborgGT
              ^ Same question, but more up-to-date? Just want to make sure that "back order" notice [at RoskoRacing.com] is looked after.

              And, out of pure curiosity and sorry for the brief off topic-ness, those Prelude H2B kits... since 90-93 Accords can use their stock mounts and axles for an H-swap, would that PH2B kit then be directly compatible?
              Originally posted by Rosko
              I received 6 in the months shortly after that post and have not been able to get any since. I spoke with Steve spring of 2014 and told him to order 6 more for me, he said 2-3 months and I said OK get them coming. I pass this info on to my customers, some gave money up front and others waited patiently. After about 3 months I had not heard anything yet and gave him a call to find out that nothing had been ordered. I pretty much gave up after that and refunded my customers money or set them up with something else. I'm not sure what the deal is to be honest, but I couldn't keep promising my customers a date knowing that date was going to come and go. Everything about getting these over the past few years has been a struggle and even though my customers have been patient it always (in my eyes) makes me look like a dick. I can't do business like that. I don't want to have to call and check in every week and keep nagging on a company to get me what I need. If you tell me something will be here then make damn sure it is. 1 month always turns into 3-4 and finally I had enough. Sadly there aren't any other companies that import these (at least that I know of), there are a few that advertise them but I think what I figured out is that they just source them from H motors as well.

              I still offer the same services if you are able to source your own, and I still produce all the a parts but from here on out I don't expect to ever stock these again.

              There are other options though. I've developed an alternative over the past few years and that is the fabbed upper plenum and modified lower. These have proven to be the better option and I highly suggest you check those out if you haven't already.
              Originally posted by Rosko
              And to answer your PH2B question....

              I don't know, haha.

              This comes up alot, it seems as if there is more interest with doing this to an Accord then there is a Prelude. The kit uses all new mounts that aren't interchangeable with the factory mounts, however the mounting points on the chassis would be the same so that may be a mute point. Axles would probably be the same axles you'd use with an H swap in the Accord and would need modified in the same manner the prelude axle would.

              The main difference would be the shifter linkage. A factory linkage thats cables is much more flexible on where its mounted. It could be moved 2 inches forward or 2 inches back and it wouldn't care. The PH2B linkage however is obviously not a cable linkage, it is a solid tube linkage and that means that the distance from the trans to the shifter needs to be the same in your Accord as it is in your Prelude and thats probably not the case, it would be pure luck if it worked out that way. Is that a deal breaker? Probably not, it just means that you'd have to do some fab work on the shifter end of things to A, get the shifter mounted, and B, either extend or shorten the linkage bars.
              http://www.preludepower.com/forums/s...40970&posted=1

              Rosko upper plenum / matching lower runner modification

              Rosko PH2B kit

              The Euro-R manifold has probably gone out of production, so it's pretty much a Honda collector's item I will be proud to own! Just gotta get it home, and get it to a good metal polisher!
              Last edited by CyborgGT; 12-31-2014, 07:04 PM.

              Accord Aero-R

              Comment


                #97


                * Euro-R manifold
                * RDX 410cc injectors w/adapters & Rosko pigtails
                * Rosko fuel rail
                * EGR runner plate & block-off plate
                * IACV relocated to back of plenum
                * LHD throttle cable bracket
                * Inlet bored to 68mm
                * USDM IAT sensor
                * flange machined to fit base H22 head w/o thicker gasket
                * The TB I've got mounted is a Professional Products 68mm ITR throttle

                Came yesterday, I've been working on transferring everything over. The fuel rail inlet is in the way of me being able to install the EGR valve, but my friend says our emissions test centers don't look for that anyway - they didn't even lift the hood on his old Explorer and just checked for a cat (they just brought it back in CO a few years back and I only had to go in once, two years ago - they lifted the hood to run a fan because it was hot out). Luckily for me, the manifold included the block-off ready to go. Hopefully the engine can be tuned to pass emissions without the EGR. It came with a throttle body identical (albeit satin, not polished) to the TB I'd purchased earlier, but it lacks the idle adjustment screw so I won't be using it.

                I'll have the manifold polished and the fuel rail painted to match my custom valve cover in due time. I want my engine to look every bit as bad-ass as it performs.
                Last edited by CyborgGT; 01-14-2015, 12:06 AM.

                Accord Aero-R

                Comment


                  #98
                  So, at least in this period of simply trying to get my engine built, I've decided I'll forget the Bisi header and modify my OEM downpipe. The problem this presents is that, being a 4-2-1, the only real spot to position my three sensors (EGT, wideband, and stock O2) are on the straight after the 2-1 merge.

                  My question: is there an optimal distance needed between gauge sensors? The sensors protruding into the exhaust path are obviously going to interrupt flow, so wouldn't that make the readings of the second two sensors a bit off if they were all too close to each other?

                  Accord Aero-R

                  Comment


                    #99
                    on my Turbo DSM I spiraled all 3 sensors about 4" apart, never had any issue. I made sure all were easily gotten to without removing parts.
                    "Self Renewed"

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by CyborgGT View Post
                      So, at least in this period of simply trying to get my engine built, I've decided I'll forget the Bisi header and modify my OEM downpipe. The problem this presents is that, being a 4-2-1, the only real spot to position my three sensors (EGT, wideband, and stock O2) are on the straight after the 2-1 merge.

                      My question: is there an optimal distance needed between gauge sensors? The sensors protruding into the exhaust path are obviously going to interrupt flow, so wouldn't that make the readings of the second two sensors a bit off if they were all too close to each other?
                      That is too far away from the cylinder head for the EGT.
                      The EGT needs to be only a few inches from the cylinder head right in your primary.
                      If you don't want to run 4 EGT probes you need too figure out which cylinder runs the hottest on your motor and put the probe in that primary.
                      (h22 cylinder 3 is the hot cylinder)
                      MY mrt shows what research suggested to be the best placement on the H22
                      CB7TUNER.com
                      Educating each other one car at a time.

                      Comment


                        ^ That's what I was afraid of, I didn't want to monitor only one cylinder; In DSport's current S14 turbo build, they have the EGT sensors right up by the head flange. I was actually thinking about writing in to them. Where did you find the info on placement?

                        Accord Aero-R

                        Comment


                          The fact that you need to monitor all four or the hottest one i found on numerous motor building forums. The location of the hottest cylinder of a H22 I found archived on a NZ Prelude forum.
                          The optimal is monitoring all four cylinders.
                          CB7TUNER.com
                          Educating each other one car at a time.

                          Comment


                            Alright, thanks for the help there (and you, Keele, for the 4 inches!). I think I'll stick with cyl3 for now, and talk to my tuner on the usefulness of having the rest.

                            For now, I'm holding my money. A friend wants to get a place together soon here, and for me that means getting my own garage to work in. Since the exhaust is the area I'm focusing on putting together right now anyway, boredom has led me to polish my Spoon header. Nothing but elbow grease, lots of sandpaper, some Wenol metal polish.... and more than a few hours' time. The great thing is that the end result has seriously boosted my confidence in doing this kind of work, so I think I'll tackle the intake manifold myself as well. Just gotta research into the right power tools for quicker work next time.










                            Accord Aero-R

                            Comment


                              Well that has come up well!

                              Did your exhaust manifold have a protective layer/film on it? Did you power through that?

                              Im pretty sure Im just polishing a protective layer on mine.


                              UKDM 93 CB3 Page (1) H22A U2Q7 LSD
                              UKDM 91 4ws Page (3) OEM Minter
                              NOW H22A U2Q7 SWAPPED

                              Comment


                                Bling Bling That turned out fawesome.

                                Aluminum is a different beast but still enjoyable to work with, it has some of the highest reflectivity ratings, so you can get it mirror quality if you wanted, also using india ink on a final polish will really get it optically reflective.

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