Dyno chart baseline

[19dabeast85]

What do you base those approximations off of? It seems that a lot of SOHC nonVTEC people here are pretty optimistic. My experience says that your "stage 2" cam is going to be inadequate to hit those numbers on that dyno.

I just want to know what all you're going to change for a 105whp gain over your current setup. Is Scott building your new engine?

-P

I'll build the engine and then post up what I did to make X power. I believe I can do it on the stage2 cam, but it IS possible I may have to get a custom grind slightly more aggressive, I doubt it though.

I agree that it would be a lot for an 18-21 year old Accord with worn out brakes and suspension. But who puts that much time and effort into an engine and does nothing about safe handling. Oh wait, I forgot what forum I was on!

OP,
235whp......100-80whp is a lot to gain and it is going to take a considerable amount of work and cash. I agree that a level 2 cam probably won't get you there.

My suspension is completely new except for a few control arms. My brakes will be upgraded while the engine is being built. I don't fit the "standard" here.

Nothing worthwhile comes without hard work and dedication, I'm well aware of the meticulous build I'm attempting.

We have fairly sturdy cars, just go read what all the crazy/stupid people have hit in the increase my top speed thread.

Anyway 13.## second quarter puts us at around 100mph, I am very comfortable with my car at that speed.

I was not stock, but with suspension, brakes and tires I think that those numbers are fine for an accord, too much power really isn't as much of a problem as too much torque, and unless boosted we keep our torque numbers low enough that that HP is nothing but a thing.

I'm hoping for around 180 ft. lbs of torque and 230hp at the wheels. Ya'll forget that tons of modern engines make well over 100hp per liter. I'll have somewhere around 2.25 liters.

[PirateMcFred]

Ya'll forget that tons of modern engines make well over 100hp per liter. I'll have somewhere around 2.25 liters.

And you're forgetting that the F22A is not a modern engine. It's 21 years old. According to your profile you were a 5 year-old when it debuted in the US market.

I'm not saying it's not possible, I'm saying it's improbable. It's not cost-effective for a street legal Accord and part-throttle, low RPM operation will be an interesting experience if you intend to DD the car. 235whp is a bold statement if you don't already have a plan to get there. I only want to know what your approach to getting an additional 105whp out of your F22 is.
So please elaborate.

-P

[Ghetto_CB7]

That is quite a bit of power to pull from an F-series, it can obviously be done, and has been done, but it will be quite expensive, and will probably require some trial and error, when you start talking about engines with that sort of jump in hp over stock it is hardly ever a put all the parts you thought about buying in, turn on, tune and boom you have the power.

This is especially true for a motor like the f22a, since only bisi seems to know the secrete to unleashing its true NA fury.

As for the stage 2 cam, I feel it is capable of that power, and probably even more, you just have to provide the compression for it to be beneficial, scott made 282 or something like that on an h22 with s2-p2 cams, and made 270 on the s2-p1. It is all about providing that compression, and being built so that you can take full advantage of the top end, meaning some lightening, and a very intensive blueprinting and building of the block.

I would not consider getting a stage 2 cam for this motor unless his static cr is going to be above 12.5:1

More importantly will be the headwork he has done, and making sure that all his internal, and external choices work well with each other, and maybe even looking into e85 with such a high compression.

I would ask Bisi about his cams in this situation, but the idle between the stage 1 and two probably isn't that much different, but if it is ask him what he thinks about running a stage one cam from him.

I think one of the biggest problems people make with our vehicles is getting too aggressive with a camshaft and then not making as much as they would have on a lower level cam. This problem comes about mostly because of a lack of knowledge in the community as the stage 1 and stage 3 usually cost the same, so they assume stage 3 will get them more power.

Just make sure you talk to eveyone who is supplying you parts and doing machining about all you are doing and ask for suggestions, they will have better ideas than me.

LOL I say this in a thread that sounds like the OP already has a build plan LOL

[Ghetto_CB7]

Sorry

LOL I need to look at who posted the questions that I am replying to more closely, you have more engine building skills and knowledge than I do.

Hope it didn't sound demeaning to you.

[19dabeast85]

Ya'll have to stop assuming I don't have a plan. I have every step written out with estimated cost allowing a 10% increase at every step. It's going to cost over $10k to build this engine to N/A, reliable, streetable, 235whp. I'm not doing it because it's practical, I'm doing it because I want to build the f22 block into a N/A, streetable, reliable, 235whp motor.

I have studied 5-6 REAL f22 N/A builds including Cisco and 2point6 and have put together the steps I need to take to get to where I want to be. I fully believe the stg2 cam will make it. I've looked at other stg2 cam builds and my plans are way over and above their builds.

My f22 will incorporate modern technology and many of the pointers I have learned through reading the REAL build threads here over the last 4-5 years plus leaning on bisi's experience. Calm down guys, I'm a year away from having the funds to do this, I'll post up my plans after it's running. No need to share all the gritty details unless my plan actually works at least adequately.


Let's keep this thread on-topic please, if you have gripes about me not being competent or my "unknown" plans not working to reach my goals, either PM me or start a new thread...."I don't think 19dabeast85's plans will make 235 whp even though I don't know what his exact plans are..."

I have seen countless people post up huge plans to build "X" and never follow through. I just want to DO it and then post up the results.

[PR CB7]

235whp on a 22yrld engine
"not a bad way to spend 10,000 dollars"

[gloryaccordy]

235whp on a 22yrld engine
"not a bad way to spend 10,000 dollars"

Yea no comment

[GhostAccord]

Honestly if you are looking to spend 10k why not just buy the Bisi long block F series that he sells for $10k. That way you at least have some sort of warranty and you know it will make the power you want. Plus a bit more

[19dabeast85]

Honestly if you are looking to spend 10k why not just buy the Bisi long block F series that he sells for $10k. That way you at least have some sort of warranty and you know it will make the power you want. Plus a bit more

Who ever said I don't plan to employee bisi to build my engine?

[19dabeast85]

235whp on a 22yrld engine
"not a bad way to spend 10,000 dollars"

I'm not discussing this in this thread anymore, off topic, please start a new thread if you want to bash on my personal aspirations and dreams.

[PirateMcFred]

Beasty, I'm not knocking your competency, I sincerely wanted to know your approach. It's no small undertaking to double the OE BHP output of an engine in NA trim.

I think I could also make a "streetable" 235whp nonVTEC engine but for the price I'd start looking at more modern platforms that start at more than 120whp output. If you're seriously kicking around budgets approaching $10k then you, sir, have more dedication to any one platform than I.

Your build timeline sounds like it's a ways off too. Life has a way of adjusting your priorities without your permission. I hope everything goes smoothly. :beer:

-P

Ghetto_CB7, no worries. I'm not offended at all.

[GhostAccord]

Who ever said I don't plan to employee bisi to build my engine?

No one. So why all the secrecy, and saying that you studied this and that. Just tell people that your paying someone to build you a 250 whp F series and be done with it. Then there would be no doubters or haters. Simply stop pretending to have some alternative secret to unleashing the F series power! We all know Bisi can do it. Now that people know that it's up to your wallet, and not your knowledge. I'm sure people will stop questioning your methods.

Anywho,
Good luck with the build

[PR CB7]

wow, change of mind.... for a long time i tought accord owners were cheap

you my friend are and will always be #1 in the FSAE club
if my wife found out i was about to spend almost a year of mortgage payments in the engine of my grandmas car......

also pirate has a point, not everything in life goes according to plan

[19dabeast85]

Beasty, I'm not knocking your competency, I sincerely wanted to know your approach. It's no small undertaking to double the OE BHP output of an engine in NA trim.

I think I could also make a "streetable" 235whp nonVTEC engine but for the price I'd start looking at more modern platforms that start at more than 120whp output. If you're seriously kicking around budgets approaching $10k then you, sir, have more dedication to any one platform than I.

Your build timeline sounds like it's a ways off too. Life has a way of adjusting your priorities without your permission. I hope everything goes smoothly. :beer:

-P

Ghetto_CB7, no worries. I'm not offended at all.

PM me if you're that desperate for details. Thanks for the well wishes!

No one. So why all the secrecy, and saying that you studied this and that. Just tell people that your paying someone to build you a 250 whp F series and be done with it. Then there would be no doubters or haters. Simply stop pretending to have some alternative secret to unleashing the F series power! We all know Bisi can do it. Now that people know that it's up to your wallet, and not your knowledge. I'm sure people will stop questioning your methods.

Anywho,
Good luck with the build

Bisi will build it to my specs, the only thing I need him for is his secret bearing specs, everything else will be what I tell him I want. I'm going to have to let him build the bottom end because I know he won't share his proprietary info and I don't blame him.

Thanks!

wow, change of mind.... for a long time i tought accord owners were cheap

you my friend are and will always be #1 in the FSAE club
if my wife found out i was about to spend almost a year of mortgage payments in the engine of my grandmas car......

also pirate has a point, not everything in life goes according to plan

Don't know what "FSAE" means?? True, something in my life could drastically change preventing me from carrying out my plans, who knows, I can't plan for the unknown. You are correct, Accord owners generally are cheap. They install crappy parts on their cars that under-perform or fail (ebay chassis parts). I am an automotive enthusiast who has a particular interest in the cb7 chassis and f22 motor. I don't consider myself a normal "Accord owner".



What is everyone's thoughts about the before and after dynos comparing the dcsports header to the bisi header?

[rexload]

The graph looks great man; nearly a 15whp gain at 6500rpm after Bisi header/tune. Very nice!