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Old 01-16-2019, 04:03 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Extended top hats do nothing to prevent contact with corrected camber. Thatís like trying to fix an erratic idle by changing your washer nozzles.
If banging disappears with extended top hats, itís the shock bottoming out that isnít happening anymore. Nothing to do with the upper control arm.
I don't have a camber issue. I only have a UCA/UBJ hitting the top issue. I can see the point people are making. Currently the spring is compressed more than stock bc I lowered. Let's put the spring back to normal and lower by using the top hat.

But I don't think it will make a diff / the longer spring travel will make a diff. I think it's just soft springs.
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Old 01-16-2019, 06:22 PM   #42
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The uca is hitting because of the suspension geometry. As the car is lowered, the arm is pushed up toward the fenderwell. Camber correction involves pushing the ubj mounting point outward (be it by the joint or the entire arm). This results in contact. The shock/spring assembly has nothing at all to do with it, aside from the introduction of negative camber that needs to be corrected as the car is lowered. The only way a shock/spring assembly can eliminate hitting is if the car is raised enough to allow for camber correction without the arm/joint making contact during compression.

To my knowledge, there is absolutely no way to correct camber on a significantly lowered cb7 without hitting the inner fenderwell (or, better yet, modifying the sheet metal to provide clearance). It’s geometry. No camber kit design is going to overcome that.
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Old 01-17-2019, 03:43 PM   #43
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The other item I've never thought of prior is that there will be more fluid for the shock to go through as well by using the top hats.
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Old 05-28-2019, 11:33 PM   #44
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I ordered these and just put them on with bad results. they dont clear my 92 coupe at all. Hits fender liner and would hit the tower if liner was cut. Also would need to cut and weld the shock tower cap dealieohh that esp talked about. Yeah, Not doing that.. and if someone wants to try it out I dont want this set anymore. I tried to tell esp that and they want to cut and alter the product I dont need anymore.
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Old 05-29-2019, 04:21 AM   #45
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I heard this too and preached this the whole time. Thumbs down for failure to do Q&A on these before trying to sell to members here.
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Old 05-29-2019, 10:01 AM   #46
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There is absolutely no way to fully correct camber when lowered beyond a certain point without adding clearance. It is a matter of geometry, not poor design on ESP’s part. The upper ball joint must move outward and upward. Even if the arm and joint were to be as compact as possible, it would only allow for a very slight improvement.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:05 PM   #47
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his replies were: I will relay the information to the manufacture of the issue as we are not the manufacture. What I can do in the meantime... Is your alignment already done with the car? Slider plate is where it needs to be? I would mark the slider plate all on the unit so I can re install it in same spot. I would then also mark where the unit is hitting the inner fender well. You may then send it back to me and I will modify and trim it accordingly. The CB chassis can only give what it can give on clearances this is why no one had made a kit for it. What many people do these days is make camber kit steel cover plates for the shock tower for added clearance. I get you do not want to do this so we will trim them accordingly.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:30 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
There is absolutely no way to fully correct camber when lowered beyond a certain point without adding clearance. It is a matter of geometry, not poor design on ESPís part. The upper ball joint must move outward and upward. Even if the arm and joint were to be as compact as possible, it would only allow for a very slight improvement.
Can't agree with you there. First this is promoting 4 deg. for our cars. & my point is that these things are square as sponge bob, vs OEM or aftermarket where they have rounded corners to fit up in the area of concern. I'm not talking about banging the UCA off the top of the shock tower area (we all know the limits) I'm talking about scraping the sides. People have issues with OEM / aftermarket which have rounded corners, to think that these will work without Q&A is dreaming.

Ex: you can take a car setup that is lowered 2-3" w/ X camber that does not hit / rub / bang, and install these. I guarantee you they will hit / rub (probably not bang as you are not changing the lowered aspect).

This is 100% ESP design fault. But technically not a design fault as they admitted to not doing Q&A for these.
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Old 05-29-2019, 03:42 PM   #49
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Even at lowered 2-3" these won't just rub / scrape, they will literally have the body sitting on the UCA's with no movement possible. I need to get pictures and some measurements to ESP to work on this.
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Old 05-29-2019, 06:20 PM   #50
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Ah, ok. I see what you mean. They’re wider at the point where the ball joint sits, correct? I can see how that would cause issues.
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Old 05-30-2019, 04:57 AM   #51
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Quote:
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Ah, ok. I see what you mean. Theyíre wider at the point where the ball joint sits, correct? I can see how that would cause issues.
Yep. It would rub inside the strut cavity which faces the outside of the car (towards wheel). Coming from a guy who owns several ESP products I was disappointed on them trying to sell this here with no Q&A. I had someone else text me who bought these and say they rub too. No issues for other ESP products but these should not be for sale on this site in their current state. I would think they could at least try to make them close to OEM dimensions. But ESP said himself...

"Still waiting to here back... If anyone wants to try them out. Email Us. If there is any issues manufacture has been willing to alter them. Just need feedback/measurements if any issues."

So maybe folks who rub can providing feedback in here.
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:42 PM   #52
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well, upon numerous attempts to insert the three images onto the post unsuccessfully, I give up. So just know if one were to order said product, you would have to cut about an inch or so away from the entire shock tower hump on both sides and weld in two giant sized towers in place plus cut about half inch of fender liner where it hits.

It is impossible to give the product back to him with markings to where the alignment would produce correct camber (looking for -1.0 degree which within oem spec tolerable limits) because it will not get past the liners and towers it is way too long and wide for cb's
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Old 05-30-2019, 12:52 PM   #53
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I have some down time and I'm in between projects on my Accord. I'll get busy and get some pictures uploaded, so we can all see the problems.
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Old 05-30-2019, 07:45 PM   #54
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Agree with djALBINI. I mean, seriously. If OEM will rub under 3+deg camber + lowered situations how the F would these even come close to working. This is almost a joke .....as they don't even come close to fitting. The modification needed on this = making a whole new unit.

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Old 05-31-2019, 07:37 AM   #55
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It’s the actual tip of the oem arm that rubs (or the adjustable ball joint added to it, if that’s the camber correction option utilized). A kit that maintains the width of the oem arm would have the same issues. With a wider end, it clearly hits before the tip makes contact, reducing clearance so that it’s nearly unusable in any situation where it would actually be needed.

Ultimately, I don’t feel there really is a way to improve a camber kit for the CB. A quality anchor bolt or quality ball joint kit will do everything that can be done. The problems we’ve all experienced with rubbing is a result of geometry.
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Old 05-31-2019, 07:03 PM   #56
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Agreed. Best scenario is OEM UCA with SPC flat style top adjustable upper ball joint. But still rubbing and banging if not adjusted properly. Our cars were simply made for 4x4 mode :P
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Old 06-03-2019, 12:33 PM   #57
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I am working with the Manufacture on a solution. However the Chassis will ONLY give you what it can give. The Fender seam is pretty inward. The Shock Tower Window Plates are becoming more and more common. Especially in the EG/DC.

I am currently working with a Customer that has been very helpful on Pictures, markings and will be for now trimming the End Plate corners to clear. We will finese the Control Arms Trimmage to clear. Thanks
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:18 AM   #58
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Thanks for addressing it, John. It means a lot when feedback is taken seriously so improvements can be made!
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