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Old 11-23-2016, 11:37 PM   #1
ShiroiKinCB
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'Function and Form' question...???

Whom on this site is/was rolling on a set of these?


My question is:
how is the ride quality?
If anyone knows of the specs, dimensions, part number, cost, etc.... I would be interested to know so I can write some notes down....(project of mine)
Or post a picture of your set-up with either factory or aftermarket wheels.
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Old 11-24-2016, 03:35 AM   #2
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seriously? it's one of the most talked about suspensions available for our cars. One of our members was even the guinea pig for the cb7-specific setup.

also, they're coilovers. they only change in length, so they would look no different than ANY other adjustable suspension available from the outside. pictures are useless.

please do some actual research before you post in the big-kid segment of the forum.
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Old 11-24-2016, 11:51 AM   #3
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To my knowledge, Function and Form Autolife (the full name of the company... something about 70% of their "fans" probably aren't even aware of) is not a legitimate suspension company. They do not engineer or manufacture their products. They merely outsource design and production to a third party, most likely in China or Taiwan, where such things can be made VERY cheaply. Even in the best situations, such low-overhead options can result in incredibly inconsistent results. One person's experience may not be another's. Manufacturing processes, machinery, materials, and quality control may cause there to be significant differences between one batch and the next.

How they ride is largely determined by the selected ride height and spring rate. It is also determined by which model is selected (as they offer more than one.) Additionally, such a thing is fully subjective... a matter of opinion. Some people may think they're great, while others may think they're kidney-shattering.
If you look around on this site, you'll see that over the last decade or so we've had dozens of members using their products. In their defense, I have heard very few complaints.

Regardless, considering your life is riding on your suspension, I would feel MUCH more comfortable buying a product that has been engineered and manufactured by a legitimate company with many years of experience behind them. Such brands are still producing products for the CB, though they are becoming fewer. You can buy quality coilovers from trustworthy companies such as H&R, Tein, and KW, for example. Koni shocks and Ground Control sleeves made specifically for them are also a valid option (and despite being separate pieces, they are every bit as good as "real" coilovers.)
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Old 11-28-2016, 05:55 PM   #4
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i was not the guinea pig, stickydiljoe was but i had my f&f on my car before he became the guinea pig. mine was designed for the 5th gen since at tbat time no one really used f&f and they didnt release 4th gen specific coilovers. but still fits 4th gen the same

how is the ride quality? sttttttiff af lol probably due to my ride height and spring rate being high. been even used at the track. it rides good on track but on streets it wrecks my back lol

original cost was i think was around 450 iirc, im sure my spring rate was 10k which is high

http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...t=17222&page=9 u can see pics of the install and how it looked after it was installed initially by my friend 203cree
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Old 11-29-2016, 05:15 AM   #5
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I have had F&F in my Dc2 ( i know its not the same but its comparable) and i have Tein Street Basis in my cb9.

My Integra was terrible over speedbumps, every single bump felt like i was going to bottom out.

My wagon feels like stock except its as low as the coilovers can go.

Best coilover ive ridden on comfort wise

F&F
Function: 7
Grip:6
comfort:2

Tein
Function: 6
Grip:5
Comfort:9
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Old 12-06-2016, 10:35 PM   #6
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Not talking about product quality (which Deev nails spot on, its not much better than any other outsourced coilover), I highly dislike how F&F sets up their suspension (and how most other cheaper coilover companies do). For the 4th/5th Gen Accords, they almost always run 12kg front spring, paired with a 6kg or 7kg rear spring. The fronts are setup very stiff, so when you dump the car to the ground, you won't bottom out or wreck your oil pan over any slight irregularity in the road (because really, anyone who actually intends to track their car isn't gonna get F&F because its better than the rest of the competition). Then, they use a soft spring in the rear, to help keep the car "somewhat" comfortable over less-than-perfect roads. From my experience in riding in cars with F&F or other comparable setups, they tend to "porpoise" or rock back and forth over bumps, because of the vastly different spring rates, which leads to the suspension not equalizing (for lack of a better word) simultaneously.

If you look at stock Accord spring rates (220lb front, 150lb rear), ratio wise, its a 1.47:1 ratio. With F&F, you're running 2:1. So not only is the balance upset, with a FWD running a stiffer front spring rate means you are also increasing understeer, which for performance purposes is the last thing you want to do.

Most REAL aftermarket suspension companies take this into consideration when designing their stuff. Look at Tein Street Basis or Advance coilovers, they have 336lb front, and 280lb rear springs, so about a 1.2:1 ratio. Much more balanced, and with a slightly more rear bias than stock, it should help the handling balance. Granted, they aren't as stiff as some stuff, but the Tein Street line isn't meant to be, and is hands down the most comfortable coilover setup to DD on.

Another great, and in my opinion the best bang-for-your-buck suspension option is Koni Sport (Yellow) shocks, paired with Ground Control coilover sleeves. First, Koni Yellows are hands one of the best off the shelf shocks we can get (the only other comparable one is Bilstein HDs). They are meant to handle a drop, and can handle up to 600lb springs safely. And with Ground Control kits, you can completely customize what springs you want to run. The standard kit comes with something very similar to Tein spring rates, but you can order your own specs for now extra charge. I am running what is probably the most popular setup for Koni/GC.....550lb front (about 10kg), and 450lb rear (8kg). Again, a much more balanced setup, similar to the OEM ratio. In addition, I have Tanabe front and rear sway bars, which help improved the handling balance even more so. I also have front FFC extended top hats to help improve the stroke length of the Koni's back closer to stock height, which is a must have IMO and significantly reduces the chances of bottoming out the shocks.


This isn't even getting into the valving and compression/rebound characteristics of shocks, which is where you will really see the difference between a cheap setup, and an actual quality setup.


Long story short, you get what you pay for. Don't just buy what a bunch of stance guys, and kids who buy suspension based on what will get you lowest, or what colors you like. Do some actual research, and you will see the difference is quality is very much there.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:25 PM   #7
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So what is the price comparison between a set of Function & Form versus the Koni Yellows with the Ground Control Sleeves?

Looks like the Function & Form Type One's are roughly $580-$600 & the Type Two's are roughly $700-$800.

I am still in the process of finding the best suspension setup but I want to have the safest & most durable setup. Not trying to slam my CB at all. Just some reliability & safety would be great.
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Old 12-07-2016, 01:53 PM   #8
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Koni/GC will probably be upwards of $800, depending on where you buy, when you buy, and what specs you request (I don't know for sure if custom rates cost more... they may.) Koni is a long-running performance shock manufacturer that often produces parts for OEM manufacturers. GC uses Eibach springs. Eibach, like Koni, has been around for over 60 years, producing products for OEM and motorsport use.

F&F, while they have a decent reputation, do not seem to engineer or manufacture their products. It is highly likely that they simply order their products from overseas from undisclosed sources. Therefore, we know absolutely nothing about the engineering, materials, manufacturing facilities, or quality control behind their products. If you look at the "about" section of their website, it rambles on and on about their business philosophy, but says nothing at all about how their products are made.
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Old 12-07-2016, 03:39 PM   #9
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Good information, thanks. Yeah, I think I like how the quality sounds with the Koni's.

"For the 4th/5th Gen Accords, they almost always run 12kg front spring, paired with a 6kg or 7kg rear spring." - Corweena

See that was the main thing that caught my eye when I was looking into details about the FFs..why the hell do they make the spring rate so damn stiff!?
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:06 PM   #10
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Many of those cheaper coilovers use extremely stiff springs. I suppose it makes people feel as if they have a "race" suspension. Some of those systems likely have dampers that aren't suitable for such high spring rates, too! I used to know quite a bit about spring rates, and how a stiffer spring can be used without totally sacrificing ride quality, but I've forgotten most of that by now, sadly. I need to brush up on it! Still, for a street system, such high rates are a questionable choice, I feel. Most of the inexpensive stuff that is popular among enthusiasts of old Hondas isn't really meant for serious track use... meaning it's not really good for ANY of the things people could potentially want them for!
Granted, most amateurs probably wouldn't be able to exceed the capabilities of their stock suspension on a track, let alone ANY sort of performance upgrade. Not until they've gotten a number of track days under their belt, at the very least.
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Old 12-07-2016, 05:50 PM   #11
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The super high spring rates are a protection against how low the typical customer of that type (read: price point) of suspension set up lowers their car. Typically the kids that use the cheaper suspension are only after looks. They want the car absolutely slammed on the ground. The margin for error between the pavement and your oil pan is severely compromised, so to help with that, they increase the spring rate to make it much more difficult to bottom out. However, physics always wins, and they scrape the crap out of their cars leaving even the most gradual driveways, anyway.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:10 PM   #12
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lol, I find it funny what people think a high spring rate is...

My buddy had a 90 coupe with these on them. Sure, you can slam your car. But, when they were set at a functional height, they perform very well. Are they GREAT coilovers? Nope. They are just pretty good. If you want great coilovers, then you better be prepared to shovel out a couple grand. Real tuneability for the track is not cheap.
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Old 12-07-2016, 06:15 PM   #13
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Most will never see a track. I just question the wisdom of suspension components of unknown origin for street use. Public roads put many hard miles on a car's suspension. In many ways, it's harder on the suspension than the track.
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G. Wiffington View Post
So what is the price comparison between a set of Function & Form versus the Koni Yellows with the Ground Control Sleeves?

Looks like the Function & Form Type One's are roughly $580-$600 & the Type Two's are roughly $700-$800.

I am still in the process of finding the best suspension setup but I want to have the safest & most durable setup. Not trying to slam my CB at all. Just some reliability & safety would be great.
If you wait until spring, you can get Koni's on sale (the only time they really ever go on sale). In past years, they sell for as low as $480 shipped, which is a killer price. The Ground Controls, as weird as it may sound, is best to get from eBay. There is a specific seller (Undercaroutfitter), who lets you order custom spring rates at no extra charge, as long as you contact them before placing your order. Just remember when searching for GCs, you NEED the Koni specific kit if you are pairing them with Koni Yellows. All in all, if you play your cards right, you can get the setup for $800-$830. Which isn't much more than the F&F Type 2s, for a much better product with a lifetime warranty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Most will never see a track. I just question the wisdom of suspension components of unknown origin for street use. Public roads put many hard miles on a car's suspension. In many ways, it's harder on the suspension than the track.
THIS. THIS. THIS. Same goes with wheels. I see so many kids these days that justify running their $350 China made replica wheels because the car "will never see a track". Little do they realize that daily driving on crappy roads is MUCH more stressful than lapping a prepared surface at a slightly faster speed. Why do you think most wheels 99% of the time crack while driven on the streets? On the track, the only real threat to your wheels is going off the into the dirt, or hitting an apex curb at 130mph.
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarrett View Post
The super high spring rates are a protection against how low the typical customer of that type (read: price point) of suspension set up lowers their car. Typically the kids that use the cheaper suspension are only after looks. They want the car absolutely slammed on the ground. The margin for error between the pavement and your oil pan is severely compromised, so to help with that, they increase the spring rate to make it much more difficult to bottom out. However, physics always wins, and they scrape the crap out of their cars leaving even the most gradual driveways, anyway.
HAHA now I totally understand!! That makes sense. Because people are always
just trying to "live the low life"..I guess I am not about that life.
I would rather choose a setup for proper functioning over the form/look..(what a coincidence the Function and Form are mostly about Form over Functioning haha.) Thanks for making sense for me!
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Old 12-08-2016, 12:26 PM   #16
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lol, I find it funny what people think a high spring rate is...

My buddy had a 90 coupe with these on them. Sure, you can slam your car. But, when they were set at a functional height, they perform very well. Are they GREAT coilovers? Nope. They are just pretty good. If you want great coilovers, then you better be prepared to shovel out a couple grand. Real tuneability for the track is not cheap.
I mean what spring rate are you running..?
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:00 PM   #17
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I mean what spring rate are you running..?
Well, that all depends on the car and the style of the build.

I used to own a Lexus SC300 that was slammed on Stance Coils (the idea for this build was to see how low I could go and still drive it; subframe was about 1/2" off the ground). 35kg fronts and 20kg rears. Not as stiff as the RX7 I had with 20kg fronts and 16kg rears (cheapy no name coils; purchase because of leaky struts and they were $200 on CL). It truly has more to do with how the strut/shock is valved to handle the spring. My mom liked riding around in the Lexus, said it was very comfortable for how stupid low it was.

My accord, well that's not around anymore. But, I had a custom spring made for GC sleeves that was around 15kg front and 12kg rear. I had the Konis revalved for the higher spring rate. Oof. That car could handle on the track.(were the springs stiff? yes. Was the ride stiff? no. Did the car handle like a racecar? yeah it did.)
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:34 PM   #18
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Well, that all depends on the car and the style of the build.

I used to own a Lexus SC300 that was slammed on Stance Coils (the idea for this build was to see how low I could go and still drive it; subframe was about 1/2" off the ground). 35kg fronts and 20kg rears. Not as stiff as the RX7 I had with 20kg fronts and 16kg rears (cheapy no name coils; purchase because of leaky struts and they were $200 on CL). It truly has more to do with how the strut/shock is valved to handle the spring. My mom liked riding around in the Lexus, said it was very comfortable for how stupid low it was.

My accord, well that's not around anymore. But, I had a custom spring made for GC sleeves that was around 15kg front and 12kg rear. I had the Konis revalved for the higher spring rate. Oof. That car could handle on the track.(were the springs stiff? yes. Was the ride stiff? no. Did the car handle like a racecar? yeah it did.)

Wow, that spring rate on the Lexus is pretty serious. But, hearing that you said your Mother enjoyed the ride sounds like it was pretty comfortable? I guess the F&F coilovers aren't extremely stiff then!
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Old 12-08-2016, 02:50 PM   #19
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The ride quality can be decent with stiff springs if the shocks are valved appropriately for them. It can still be rather harsh, but much MUCH better than a mismatch.
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Old 12-09-2016, 12:18 PM   #20
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Wow, that spring rate on the Lexus is pretty serious. But, hearing that you said your Mother enjoyed the ride sounds like it was pretty comfortable? I guess the F&F coilovers aren't extremely stiff then!
The Lexus was comfortable because the struts were valved for the high spring rate and to be on the softer side. The high spring rate simply kept the car from slamming the subframe constantly.

As for F&F, it depends on the driver and what they want out of the car. When I rode on F&F, they felt a tad bit stiffer than tokico illumina/skunk2 springs on full stiffness. It was not harsh and certainly was comfortable (this also depends on how low you make them and your other modifications). It is not fun banging the upper control arm on the inner fender.

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The ride quality can be decent with stiff springs if the shocks are valved appropriately for them. It can still be rather harsh, but much MUCH better than a mismatch.
This is absolutely correct. Some people HATED riding around in my Lexus.
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