short block replacement

[DCB7]

f22a1 gaskets for f22a1 IM I would think

If you've got the cams you could use the a6 IM (the plenum is bigger), or just get the H23 if you're going to buy one anyway.

[laloquera]

Whats the benefits from H23 and from what year car is of from? Do I still keep the A6 black box & ECU, or bum them up to match the H23?

[EsperHamid]

I prefer if you mate the IM and the Head from the same engine, exhaust isn't as important as intake. intake difference even if slight might cause a vacuum leak.

If you have the engine off the car, you can easily notice the difference between the mating surfaces of the IM and the cylinder head.

I hand crafted a gasket that took me a lot of time and patience but was certain to block the difference in size.

When I have enough money I will buy the A6 IM to match it with the head, rather than my current A4 IM ..... however I will leave my EM from my A4 ... I was told it was bigger than the EM of the A6

However, if you are building for racing, I guess the smaller the radius of the EM the bigger the pressure and the faster the exhaust gases will release from the muffler .... just like a jet engine .... unless someone explains the opposite.

[laloquera]

Its not for racing, just need another engine, & I want more out of my car.
Will my a1: water pump, timing belt, water pump/t stat housing cross over pipe fit my the a6 motor?

[cb7 calling]

Yes
Edit. You would want the f22a6 crossover pipe to retain the oil cooler lines.

[Jarrett]

I keep seeing this thread show up when I click "new posts" and I thought the issue was resolved a while back. Looking at some of the questions you are still having, it's evident that you're not really doing any research, there are things people are saying that you're not listening to and you're being given some bad advice.

As we recently established a few posts up, a "short block" refers to a block along with the rotating assembly. In the used engine market it's usually assumed that it will come with the oil pan, oil pump, water pump and other small things that are left on when it's more work to take them off than it is to just let it go with the engine. This is how most junkyards will sell a short block.

I don't recall seeing why you need to replace your short block, but you've determined your head is ultimately fine. Care to elaborate here? I guess it really doesn't matter for the sake of this conversation, and I'll just suggest what to do assuming it really is needed.

If you have a 1992 LX, then your options for short block replacements are many. If I understand CARB correctly, then '90-'91 engines are off the table for consideration. Okay, that's fine. There are plenty others. You even have higher displacement options that have been covered on this site many times which a search would have yielded.

Options:

F22A1 - '92-'93 Accord DX/LX & '92-'96 Prelude S
F22A6 - '92-'93 Accord EX/SE
F22B1 - '94-'97 Accord EX & '97 Acura 2.2CL
F22B2 - '94-'97 Accord DX/LX/Special Edition
F22B6 - '95-'97 Odyssey
F23A1 - '98-'02 Accord LX/EX/Special Edition & '98-'99 2.3CL
F23A4 - '98-'02 Accord ULEV
F23A5 - '98-'02 Accord DX
F23A7 - '98 Odyssey & '98-'99 Isuzu Oasis

All of the F22 short blocks are more or less the exact same. If you could somehow instantly swap them out with your current shortblock while driving you would notice no difference whatsoever. They are that identical.

The F23 blocks, on the other hand, provide an increase in displacement, and the F23A1/4 short blocks will boost compression to 9.3:1 as well. This will be beneficial for the newer blends of gasoline that are offered these days that have a higher ethanol content. The increased displacement will provide a small performance benefit in the lower RPM range with the additional torque it will provide.

An additional reason to go with a newer shortblock would be the mileage/age. It stands to reason that a newer shortblock with substantially lower mileage would operate more smoothly with a better guarantee of smooth performance for years to come. Of course, this is only a matter of better odds. It could be that you could find an F22A6 shortblock that was built with exacting tolerances with 250,000 miles on it that will go for another 200,000 miles with proper care and maintenance. There's no way of knowing, so I'd hedge my bets on the ones with fewer miles.

To that point, you can actually buy complete F23A engines from JDM importers with around 45,000-50,000 miles on them. Around the Dallas area you can get them from $300-450 as a complete engine minus the transmission. I always suggest this option when someone needs to replace a shortblock because of worn rings, a thrown rod, spun bearing, etc. It's cheap, low-mileage and provides all of the benefits discussed above.

*Beyond the shortblock discussion in this thread.*

If you're wanting an F22A6 camshaft and new shortblock, get a whole F22A6. If you're wanting the F22A6 camshaft, but you don't want the "hassle" of installing the intake manifold and getting it operable, get the F22A6, install your F22A1 intake manifold and run the '95 Odyssey P1E ECU. The F22B6 is essentially an F22B2 with the F22A6 camshaft. My point with this paragraph is that if any of these engines are being considered that have the same exact head that your current engine does, why are you talking about swapping heads? The F22A6 has the same head that you do so why you would pull the heads off and switch the existing one to your new block is beyond me.

If you were to choose any of the newer engines such as the F22B1, F23A1 or JDM F23A, then you would need to swap your existing head over so that you can use your factory intake manifolds. Anything beyond what this I've covered is no longer a shortblock replacement discussion.

[laloquera]

cb7calling thanks for your input.

[EsperHamid]

nice write up Jarrett, but from my personal experience with my car and the engine replaced, there's a noticeable difference in size between the IM of my original F22A4 and the mating openings of the installed F22A6 engine head.

Should've kept the F22A6 as it came, but I wanted a memorable part from my late F22A4 so I wrongly chose the to keep my original F22A4 IM and of course the F22A4 stock ECU remained the same

[laloquera]

Jarret, Thanks for laying it down the way you did. Im still doing research on engine options. This is my first engine swap ever, and yes the F23A is a good options. I have sleeve damage on my F22A1 beyond believe, I just got another head from JK two months ago with good compression. So that is were I am at the moment.
Thanks

EsperHamid, I would dread having the same problem & that is what I am trying to avoid with all the inconsistent advise around here. But its ok, I will get it down.

[EsperHamid]

EsperHamid, I would dread having the same problem & that is what I am trying to avoid with all the inconsistent advise around here. But its ok, I will get it down.

well from your reply to Jarrett, I concluded that you have a head and want a short block cause your original block is damaged.

well first which head you have ?! ( for which engine ) buy its matching block and IM and EM if you want to be on the safe side, unless your aim is to build a Frankenstein engine, in that case Jarrett's post is most informative.

[DCB7]

Whats the benefits from H23 and from what year car is of from? Do I still keep the A6 black box & ECU, or bum them up to match the H23?

It's bigger, and has the butterfly plates.

Because you mentioned grabbing the cams and springs, I thought you were going for a bump in power. As Jarret stated, the A6 ECU would be needed to run the iab's and map the fuel for the cams. It can run the H23 iab's as well.

The H23 came on 92 - 96 (some 98)Preludes I believe
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_H_Engine#H23

Including Jarret's post, everywhere I've read says the f22a1 and a6 heads are identical except the camshaft and valve springs, so that's why I said get the f22a1 gasket for the a1 IM. The f22a6 one will come with the gaskets for the butterfly plates, which the a1 IM doesn't have.

Edit: F22a1 vs F22a6 specs
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_F_engine#F22A

The F22A6 is the same as the F22A1 except for a slightly more aggressive camshaft, a better flowing cast exhaust manifold, a different more aggressively tuned ECU (PT6), and a different intake manifold that utilizes IAB's and also has a bigger plenum

[wagon-r]

The F22A6 also has a windage tray, although that is in the block and doesn't affect the head.

[Jarrett]

nice write up Jarrett, but from my personal experience with my car and the engine replaced, there's a noticeable difference in size between the IM of my original F22A4 and the mating openings of the installed F22A6 engine head.

Should've kept the F22A6 as it came, but I wanted a memorable part from my late F22A4 so I wrongly chose the to keep my original F22A4 IM and of course the F22A4 stock ECU remained the same

As they are the exact same head casting, that cannot be the case. It almost sounds like you had an F22B1/2/6 manifold or head. They have tiny openings in comparison to the F22A which uses the PT3 head. Even Honda's part number for the intake manifold gasket are the same between all F22A engines, so there's no reason you should have modified anything. You had some other variable present.

Jarret, Thanks for laying it down the way you did. Im still doing research on engine options. This is my first engine swap ever, and yes the F23A is a good options. I have sleeve damage on my F22A1 beyond believe, I just got another head from JK two months ago with good compression. So that is were I am at the moment.
Thanks

If you're already pulling the head, I would do what I suggested and grab an F23A from a JDM importer. They have 9.3:1 compression and offer a slight boost in performance with the added displacement. They will also be lower mileage so, theoretically, should last a very long time. You'll also get a neat aluminum compressor bracket for your Denso A/C compressor and a slightly lighter crankshaft pulley! You can use your current F22A4 intake and exhaust manifolds with this setup and run the PT3 ECU, if you'd like. You can even do that as a temporary stop-gap before adding a camshaft H23A1 intake manifold, header, etc. There's not really a perfect ECU for this combo, so the PT3 suggestion is more because there's not something else to buy that's any more accurate. Custom-tuned would be the way to go usually, but these differences aren't really enough to warrant the expense or the loss in quality from an OEM Honda tune.

[EsperHamid]

As they are the exact same head casting, that cannot be the case. It almost sounds like you had an F22B1/2/6 manifold or head. They have tiny openings in comparison to the F22A which uses the PT3 head. Even Honda's part number for the intake manifold gasket are the same between all F22A engines, so there's no reason you should have modified anything. You had some other variable present.

Jarrett, don't mention Honda part numbers here, because I can't get a Honda genuine gasket where I live. As for the openings, with my naked eye I noticed the difference when I was installing the after market gasket.

Also when it came to the EM, it was more noticeable that the F22A4 EM is bigger than the F22A6 .... I am sure it wasn't an F22B, however in the future, I would consider a Japanese F22B engine because of their low mileage

The F22A6 also has a windage tray, although that is in the block and doesn't affect the head.

I always hear this ... where is the location ?!

[wagon-r]

The windage tray fits right underneath the crankshaft. Designed to keep oil from being splattered and foamed by the crankshaft rotation.