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Old 07-15-2013, 08:21 PM   #61
Gurbin5708
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Understandable, I do appreciate what information I have gathered... I apologize if I came across a brash at first... Maybe it was to ward off anybody whose information wouldn't be as spot on as some others... I don't plan on doing anything half assed which is why I kind of left the build open to interpretation and have received rather valuable information... To answer the question, I don't plan on using entirely stock engine internals, again I was fishing for who has had some previous experience with this type of build... I'm not opposed to anybody's opinion on the issue... This is how the envelope is pushed... If it can be thought up then I'm willing to try, and I'm a gluten for punishment, so chances are I'll beat myself in the head until we get it right... It took 2 weeks of electrical trouble shooting to find out where we went wrong on our 240/Skyline build only to find out that we had faulty wiring harness... So persistence pays off, if you are willing to put in the time and keep an open mind... Again my original post may be all over the map, for that I apologize... But I do have a gameplan now, even if we ran off topic a bit... Really useful thread!!
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Old 07-15-2013, 08:48 PM   #62
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The most successful turbo H/F frankenstein build on this forum belongs to lodollar92lx. I'd look him up and see what he did with his. It will give you the best example of how to do it right.

There is a LOT of misinformation on this forum about the various hybrid engines... most of it coming from people that know very little about them, or people that have built one and only posted about it when it was running (not when it blew up.)


Once you replace the pistons, you eliminate the favorable low compression of the F block (or rather, you can easily fix the issue regarding the high compression ratio of the more performance-oriented engines.)
The F blocks are all open deck, with cast iron sleeves. People falsely believe that these sleeves are stronger than the H series' FRM sleeves (people didn't understand why most standard forged internals don't work with FRM, so they just started saying "FRM is bad!"... which, as Jarrett mentioned, is 100% false.)
The F block's open deck design is lousy for high horsepower. You will crack a sleeve. To remedy this, you will need to resleeve (as gloryaccordy mentioned). Resleeving can be done just as easily on a block properly matched to the head (which will eliminate all sorts of pesky minor fitment issues that can bite you in the ass in a high horsepower build.)

To be quite honest, frankenstein builds have very little to offer, aside from headaches.
My advice: pick a complete engine. build it from the ground up. Resleeve, run forged internals, have everything balanced, run proper cams (not N/A cams... that's stupid for a turbo setup... you'll be blowing your fresh compressed intake charge right out the open exhaust valves during overlap... unburned fuel/oxygen right into your red-hot turbo!) Tune it CAREFULLY.

We have people on here making upwards of 600hp on various engines. The H and F series engines are all capable of far more, if the budget allows.
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:16 PM   #63
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The more research we do into this the more I lean toward finding wrecked CL TypeS motor and dropping it in... But there's a whole different thread for that!!
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:34 PM   #64
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It's been done. Not a good swap if you like having a hood on your car!
I have yet to see it done well, though... but I expect to this December at AFM.

Honestly, if you want to go turbo, start with an F22A. You don't need DOHC or VTEC to make obscene amounts of power with turbo. Start with a cheap engine, build it properly (with Darton or Golden Eagle sleeves), and boost the piss out of it. The only problem you'll encounter then will be getting traction!
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Old 07-15-2013, 10:45 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gurbin5708 View Post
I apologize for getting off topic... There is a reason for the vagueness of my original post, I was fishing for the ideal setup or variations that I may be able to build on the three existing blocks I have... I'm all about trial and error to find the right setup... I'm open minded to any combination that may work... I'm not dead set on one particular block/head combination... Nobody said anything about a Frankenstein kit, but there are plenty of companies that offer a build your own rebuild kit... So, in theory it is possible to create your own Frankenstein rebuild kit... I was also under the impression that mating the an F20 head to the F22 block could cut down on the possibility of oil leaks... What's with the sinicism, just cause people don't share your opinion doesn't make them wrong or you right for that matter... But thanks for the input, regardless of what you think someone told me or whatever
Specific to your comment about the "F20" head reducing the possibility for oil leaks:

What F20 head do you mean? There is an F20A SOHC and DOHC, F20B SOHC non-VTEC, SOHC VTEC and DOHC VTEC and F20Z(1,2,3,4....). Please take that extra second to type the final letter indication at the end of the code to narrow it down to only two or three choices for us.

I'm assuming you mean the F20B DOHC VTEC, and if that's the case then I really wonder why that would be your assumption. The PCB F20B head is the very head that my pictures are of and they show you what the issues are with trying to adapt that head onto an F22A or F22B block.

Your attitude has simmered a bit in the successive posts but you really rub people the wrong way when you insult everyone else's intelligence and shoot down the opinions that oppose your own before you've even received them. If you want partial information then go to a forum that offers that. I, for one, don't want people to screw up their engines learning the heard way, even if their attitude is annoying. I'll just be annoying right back at them to get my point across.

Again, unless you're posting something about Frankenstein engine combinations then please don't clutter this thread.
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:05 PM   #66
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I've seen the few threads on the J swap... I think we can counter the hood issues with some minor sheet metal fabrication... That way I can take out the F22A6 I currently have in it and tear it down to build it back with extreme attention to detail to have a spare motor ready to go into any one of the many Hondas we have at the house... If I go that route I'll be sure to document every detailed step along the way... I've seen a few examples of the J swap and just wanna tackle something that not too many folks have done 1) for the challenge and 2) for the experience
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:38 PM   #67
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More than likely if I do this Frankenstein build I would use the DOHC non Vtec F20A head... Like I had mentioned earlier, I kind of left the head choice open to opinion... If someone has a better setup then I'd be open to explore it... I was gonna get the H23A Vtec but the race class I may run has displacement limitations and the 2.3 wouldn't work... That's when I started thinking about a Frankenstein build... I may just order a few different head combos and see which works best... May be a situation where I take it to my buddy's shop for a few weeks and dabble with different head setups and dyno each one... Thanks for all the info though
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Old 07-15-2013, 11:59 PM   #68
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The F20A head is a direct swap. The F20A DOHC uses the same exact headgasket as the F22A. The F20A DOHC head is the PT2 casting and is the same as the F22B DOHC which is documented at length on this site. It's hardly what anyone would call a "Frankenstein". Follow the steps listed in the DOHC F22B head swap thread and you'll be good to go. This thread isn't really applicable there. Nor is it with your continued J32A discussion.
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Old 07-16-2013, 12:06 AM   #69
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Ok, thanks appreciate the help
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Old 11-03-2013, 01:46 AM   #70
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Good read
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:51 PM   #71
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this was a very good read ....
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:57 AM   #72
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Nice! I'm thinking of swapping my f22a for a f20a DOHC
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Old 09-30-2014, 05:19 PM   #73
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Just read this entire thread start to finish, my head hurts, but I'm not going to waste time/energy/sanity on trying to build a bumblefucked mismatch of cheap craigslist and ebay parts now!!! Rock on Jarrett, you cleared up a LOT of misconceptions I had from researching on other forums and threads.
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Old 03-05-2015, 11:13 AM   #74
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I wish i would have had this information years ago! I was one of those idiots that had access to a cheap h23 head and thought it would be easy.
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Old 08-04-2015, 09:27 PM   #75
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this question is specifically for the f23a block and f22a head with that lip issue. how much of that will affect detonation regarding turbos on this specific hybrid setup?

and aside from the f23a1 having slightly bigger bore, longer stroke, higher comp, and 55mm bearings, are its pistons and rods a bit beefier than the f22a1/4/6 bottom end. never had someone really give a direct answer with solid data. i reasearched for months but nothing. not much info unless im just typing in wrong search words.
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Old 08-05-2015, 12:39 AM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by f22ax_Rocks View Post
this question is specifically for the f23a block and f22a head with that lip issue. how much of that will affect detonation regarding turbos on this specific hybrid setup?
Probably not much at all. However, as you can use a hand file to take the edge off ever so slightly, it makes sense to do so while the head is off just for safe measure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by f22ax_Rocks View Post
and aside from the f23a1 having slightly bigger bore, longer stroke, higher comp, and 55mm bearings, are its pistons and rods a bit beefier than the f22a1/4/6 bottom end. never had someone really give a direct answer with solid data. i reasearched for months but nothing. not much info unless im just typing in wrong search words.
No, the F23A rods are smaller in almost every dimension. They weigh around 117 grams less than an F22A rod does as well. The bearing width is narrower and the rod bearing journal is a smaller diameter. The F22A rod weighs 586g and the F23A rod weighs 469g. The F23A pistons are also lighter than the F22A with the F22A being 423.6g and the F23A at 406.9g. This is due to a much better casting process on an eight year newer design as logic would claim the F23A piston to be heavier because of the larger bore.

For a boost build, I'd say the pistons are a moot point and should be swapped out anyway. Even the K20 pistons with an 86mm bore are better designed and capable of more boost than the OEM F/H-series pistons are.
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Old 08-22-2015, 06:17 AM   #77
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alright thanks ill have to keep all this in mind then. too bad those usdm f23a bottoms are more convenient with lower mileage.

not sure if this was mentioned but somewhere in my research I read that these f23a1 rods are lighter and forged. Im sure its forged most likely for weight saving purposed but hey its worth a shot to ask. Got to verify this because too much false info floats around. Also read the f23 block has a bit more casting for more support of the sleeves in the lower area near crank. Not trying to turn this into f22 vs f23 but just trying to find out real info without buying f23 block and doing side by side comparison with f22a block.

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Old 08-22-2015, 01:10 PM   #78
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The F23A bottom end is better from a structural standpoint with the exception of the rods. The rod journals have a smaller diameter and are narrower as well. This isn't a concern unless you're trying to rev it to the moon. The main difference you'll notice is the strength of the main girdle. It's a much more beefy design that connects to more points on the bottom of the block for rigidity.
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Last edited by Jarrett; 08-22-2015 at 01:17 PM.
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Old 02-16-2017, 09:44 AM   #79
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Re:

Hello! Below is an absolutely free excerpt of "Frankenstein Critical Essay"http://bigpaperwriter.com/blog/frank...critical-essay. Therefore, put aside your worries, and get a professional consultation with the best experts!
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Old 02-16-2017, 05:06 PM   #80
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Thank you, Matthew. You clearly understood the purpose of this thread, and you offered a wonderful contribution. I appreciate it so much that I'm going to help you out by putting that link in my signature. I do genuinely hope Google enjoys your clever link placement as much as I do!
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