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Old 09-09-2017, 07:03 PM   #21
wtfisafleek
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rilas View Post
Why not just loosen the adjustment nuts all the way and relieve all the tension? Less time and effort than removing the entire valve train. Unless you need to replace you lower spark plug tube gaskets.
Yes, that was part of my logic, I already have that gasket kit. I'll make sure and check the lash before all is said and done.

So I've gotten those replaced, and the rocker assembly off and backed out all the adjusters. With the valve lash adjusters out all the way will there be some contact on one of the piston's corresponding rockers when I tighten things down? It looks like cylinder #2 is getting tight. I need to take it off again anyway, I forgot to put the sealer on the ends.
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Old 09-11-2017, 02:04 AM   #22
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Did a little more work disassembling things today. After a long conversation with my newly introduced neighbor who worked as an ASE certified mechanic for years, he says that the motor's probably alright and it's probably not too much of a risk to install the new seals, belts, etc and button everything up. If there was damage, oh well, new motor time.

It seems the PO must've VERY recently did the belts and replaced the crank seal, but damn...the cam and balance shaft seals just about fell out on their own after a poke with the screwdriver. They were definitely very old. The sparkplug tube seals were replaced as well. Tomorrow, the water pump and a bunch of cleaning on the covers and engine block surfaces. It's friggin filthy!

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 09-11-2017 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 09-16-2017, 10:26 PM   #23
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So I've gotten everything buttoned up after watching Eric The Car Guy's timing belt how-to 20 times and everything is running somewhat smoothly. Upon initial startup afterward, however it appears I've misplaced the bolt that locks down the distributor, and the exhaust seems to have holes in it so it's way louder than I expected. Best news of the day: no CELs!

I managed to bleed most of the air out of the coolant system. I was under the impression air in the system would make the idle surge upward and back down, not bog like mine is doing, e.g go down to like 600 RPM and coming back up. I'm aware there's the fitting up on the intake that may become stuck so being low hanging fruit I took the cap off off that and it appears to be seated ok.

Could it be my perforated exhaust or that distributor bolt going missing is causing the boggy idle?

The PCV and intake filter were both replaced, brand new stock part NGK spark plugs were installed after checking their gap.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:23 AM   #24
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Actually I did find that distributor bolt, it was stuck to the bottom of my magnetic bolt tray The idle is a little better until the system warms up to op temperature, then it starts to bog; just a little bit better.

I found this list of things to check from Hondahookup.com. Does this list seem all inclusive of the things I need to check? I've mentioned weather or not I've checked each item.

Note, the idle holds a steady 1200rpm or so until it reaches op. temperature.

The following items should be checked first:
1)Worn, dirty, faulty, or incorrectly gapped spark plugs Checked, good
2)Worn/loose distributor cap and/or rotor Checked, missing bolt replaced
3)Old spark plug wires Checked, good
4)Clogged/dirty air filter Replaced
5)Clogged/dirty fuel filter Recently replaced
6)Vacuum leak (check all lines, the throttle body gasket, and the intake manifold gasket) Sprayed around the intake manifold with carb cleaner, no changes in idle observed. Intake tube replaced with undamaged unit.
7)Vacuum lines not connected properly Checked, ok
8)Incorrect ignition timing Not checked
9)Air in coolant passages Checked, good


If the above items are in good shape, and the problem persists, try these:
1)Remove & clean the EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation) valve. This valve is located on the passenger side of the intake manifold. Checked and cleaned
2)Remove & clean the IACV (Idle Air Control Valve). This is located on the plenum of the intake manifold. Cleaned and reinstalled
3)Remove and clean the throttle body Shot throttle cleaner through it, per can's directions
4)Remove, inspect, and clean the Fast Idle Thermo Valve Removed and inspected, found to be damaged - REPLACED - IDLE ISSUE RESOLVED.

If the problem is still there:
1)Change the primary O2 sensor (Oxygen Sensor)
2)Test the TPS (Throttle Position Sensor).
3)Check fuel pressure at the rail. If the pressure is below 35psi, check/replace the fuel pressure regulator. If the regulator is good, fuel pump may need replacement.

On rare/extreme occasions the following items can also cause idle problems:
1)EGR passageways in the head/intake are clogged
2)Fuel injectors are dirty/worn
3)Mechanical failure/damage in the valvetrain (broken spring, bent valve, etc)
4)Poor compression due to worn/broken piston rings
5)Valve adjustment too tight

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 10-10-2017 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 09-17-2017, 11:31 AM   #25
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Wow, something useful came from HHU? That's where I got my start, before CB7tuner was a thing. I'm still the moderator of the Accord section.


That list is actually quite good. Go by that. If problems persist, I'm sure we can figure out a few more things to check.
Just a note, there is no "primary" o2 sensor, technically. There's just one o2 sensor for these cars, so the "primary" is the only. Semantics, really... but some people, especially those that buy cars with an aftermarket header that has two o2 sensor bungs tend to think they're missing a "secondary" o2 sensor and freak out. The various F22A engines have the o2 sensor located in different locations, so generic header companies just put a bung in each location so the item will be universal. (more detail than you need, but hey... I'm a treasure trove of useless knowledge!)

On the final list, items 3 and 4 should be evident in a compression test.
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Old 09-17-2017, 12:10 PM   #26
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Thanks for responding Deever. I'm going to check the ignition timing at halftime of the noon NFL games. I should mention that my bogging will go away if I give it some throttle, seems to rev pretty smoothly.
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Old 09-17-2017, 07:41 PM   #27
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I think I found the problem.


It didn't help that the PO slathered it in some kind of grease to aid getting it on. It was all over the place inside.



If someone has a spare they can sell me or even knows the part number please let me know.

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 09-17-2017 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 09-18-2017, 09:47 PM   #28
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So after experimenting with the intake tube off, covering up the crack versus just off totally, I don't think this is affecting my idle. I did take the IACV off and clean it with some carb cleaner. It did look ok from the get go but I shot some carb cleaner through it anyway and after reinstalling it didn't seem to make much difference.

More importantly, I can definitely hear a distinct hiss right by the firewall on the driver's side after I shut the car off for about 5-10 seconds. Maybe it's something on the intake on that side, I don't know.

Almost forgot to mention, it appears someone has been messing with the idle adjustment screw. The putty or goop that normally covers it up was halfway gone. So I go in with a screwdriver to turn it just to check it's condition and ended up turning it in the dark and lost sense of where I started. So I turned it all the way in and backed it out 1.5 turns. Hopefully that's a decent baseline.

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Old 09-18-2017, 09:59 PM   #29
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FITV and air boost valve may need examining.

The FITV may have deteriorated o-rings. I picked some up from the local auto parts store and rebuilt it.
See here:
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=207630
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Old 09-18-2017, 10:27 PM   #30
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Could always go around with that carb cleaner looking for a vac leak.
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Old 09-19-2017, 12:35 AM   #31
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That hiss is probably a leak in your brake booster. I had that on my 90 EX sedan when i would shut the car off. Does your brake pedal get instantly hard when you shut the car off on the first pump?
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:01 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonikaccord View Post
FITV and air boost valve may need examining.
Which one is the air boost valve? I was googling this last night and all I kept finding was FITV and and IACV. Is it the vacuum diaphragm on the right of the intake?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon View Post
Could always go around with that carb cleaner looking for a vac leak.
I did start to do this, but I got cold feet after a couple squirts, thinking about my car going up in flames before I even get it running right. I might give it another go tonight with propane. I found out the little bottle I have is empty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Losiracer2 View Post
That hiss is probably a leak in your brake booster. I had that on my 90 EX sedan when i would shut the car off. Does your brake pedal get instantly hard when you shut the car off on the first pump?
Not sure about the pedal feel, I can check that tonight. I did manage to take it around the block to see how the tranny shifts and the brakes did
seem to have a bit of a delayed reaction, but the pedal wasn't too spongy. I chalked that up to bargain brake pads. Speaking of which, my neighbor brought over a bunch of new in the box Honda brake pads. These are the thickest brake pads I've ever seen.

Of note, the PO said he'd recently replaced the master cylinder. I have to get a pic of the wires leading to the master cylinder. It looks like he took an arm or leg from his least favorite G.I. Joe figure and melted it onto the connectors.

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 09-19-2017 at 10:31 AM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 10:31 PM   #33
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I found a document that's been really helpful so far.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B7Q...ew?usp=sharing

I got to step 5; no vacuum leaks.
Restart the motor and go to step 9, per instructions.
When I unplug the IAC connector, the motor dies very quickly, not giving me a chance to check for vacuum. Should I assume it should stay running?

Losiracer, I did try pinching off the brake booster first, no change in the idle behavior was seen.

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 09-20-2017 at 01:40 PM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 02:58 PM   #34
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So I went to try and see why the car won't keep running with the IAC disconnected, which may be because my base idle is incorrectly set.

So I go about doing that, but it's difficult due to the hunting idle. I pinch off vacuum hose #21 which eliminates this completely. What does this do? I think I need to eliminate this leak/incorrect signal before I proceed through the troubleshooting doc, but I'm not sure what it is, even when looking inside the control box.

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 09-20-2017 at 03:20 PM.
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Old 09-20-2017, 09:42 PM   #35
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I thought I'd rule out the fast idle assembly. Here's what I found. A bunch of dirt mixed with wax:



Yuck.



Here's the bottom piece after I cleaned out the gunk. You can see the ridge of aluminum that helped make the wall for the o-ring to sit on has eroded away. I'm sure it wasn't leaking because of all the sediment clogging some part assembly. Looks like I need a new one. Anyone got a good spare? I may just block it off.


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Old 09-20-2017, 10:50 PM   #36
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I might have one...I'm lazy and don't really want to go in the shed right now.
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Old 10-06-2017, 06:31 PM   #37
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Picked up an A4/A6 header on ebay, ground some of the casting marks off, painted it with some silver VHT paint. I'm now waiting on a proper exhaust system to come in the mail.


I really wasn't going for a seamless blend, I really just wanted to knock down most of the sharp edges so they're not such an eyesore. Not to mention a little safer to handle.


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Old 10-08-2017, 01:25 AM   #38
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Progress has been a bit slow lately with setbacks and I realize I didn't document them. So with that in mind, here's what's gone on the last couple of weeks.

1. Noticed the coolant had been leaking from my other car's coolant system, so I had to fix that, get it topped up, etc.
2. Cleaned the heck out of the front side of the motor. Man it was grimy. Those failed seals underneath the timing cover must've failed a LONG time ago. The motor looks to have halved it's age from 384K to about 190k miles.
3. Pulled and painted the windshield wiper arms a nice satin black. Replaced the blades, and replaced a broken clip that held the windshield wiper fluid tube to the hood.
4. Had windshield replaced.
5. Fitted a spare FITV and that's seemed to have cured my idle bogging!!
5. Received and fitted a full DNA exhaust system. This took forever to do properly because the header fit soooo bad. It's maybe a couple mm away from one of the A/C lines. So I wrapped it with DEI thermal wrap to protect that pipe. Not to mention I had to slice the crossmember and fold it back a little bit for the downpipe to fit. Finally I fired it up and...ugh, so loud. It was damn near as loud as my swiss cheese system was before, with it's myriad holes in the resonator, cat, and muffler. I took it off pretty quick.
6. Ordered a stock-type replacement system, still waiting on that. If it ends up being too quiet, there's always the Magnaflow catback I always hear so much about. Anyone ever heard of the MAC Parts system? It seems pretty complete, cat and all. I feel like I'm going out on a limb here, but if it ends up being a good system, it'll save me $200 versus having an exhaust shop do it.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

7. Ordered and received a A4/A6 exahust manifold and smoothed it out a bit. This is such a pretty piece, it's a shame Honda chose to leave it in such a rough production state and cover it with heat shielding, because I think it would be very pretty if smoothed out and ceramic coated...
8. Wrapped the one A/C line with the deteriorating head shielding in a heat resistant braided wire wrap and secured it with some stainless ties. Looks much much better than the ratty look it had before.
9. Replaced my master cylinder cap with one from junkyard. Mine's wires were all gooped up with some black crap at the connectors. Looks like some kind of RTV or tar or something, I dunno. I inspected the copper underneath after I clipped it off and they were very green and corroded. Glad I changed it now.
10. Disassembled the rear passenger door to get the old window motor/regulator out. It was making these crunching sounds and judging by the gritty sludge around the cable entry point, I'm pretty sure some grit got into the gears inside and is eating them up. Need to get a new one there.
11. Disassembled the driver's door to investigate as the window rocks a bit back and forth and I think some clip that keeps it from doing so is broken. I think the rubber track could use some cleaning/greasing too. Is silicone spray the best method for this?
12. Got a made-to-fit sunshade. Man, these cars have a huge windshield compared to my other car. Outward visibility in these old Accords is outstanding.
13. Changed oil and filter, tranny fluid.

Last edited by wtfisafleek; 10-10-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 10-08-2017, 02:14 AM   #39
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To do:
Install O2 sensor extension. Done.
Replace rear brake lines. Done.
Replace transmission mount. Done.
Replace rear motor mount.
Purchase and replace front door speakers. Done.
Rewire rear speakers.
Replace cupholder.
Replace p. antenna. Done.
Purchase and replace rear door p. window motor/regulator. Done.
Purchase and replace driver's door weatherstripping, both body and door piece.
Purchase and replace driver's door rubber window track. I took this out and cleaned it real well, lubed with silicone, reinstalled.
Replace battery. Done.
Purchase and replace rear driver's side door belt molding.
Recieve and install new exhaust system. Done

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Old 10-08-2017, 01:11 PM   #40
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I'm in the same boat for 4 out of the first 5, my cup holder is good. Be sure to post about your rear window fix, I need a motor/regulator for my rear window as well and I don't know who to go with for parts.
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