Hardrace Or FFC rear arms

[TheSnigg]

Peace fam! I am considering getting a pair of rear arms. I would like to go hardrace for consistency with the rest of my Suspension set up and positive experience with their parts. but I'm concerned that they could brake under heavy driving/cornering as the are fully after market with no resemblance to OEM arms.

Reviews are good however and I like the hardened rubber rather than poly.

Below is a links to what they look like.

Hardrace:
http://www.hardrace.com/Product_deta...17&Car_Type=23

FFC:
http://fatfourcustoms.com/shop/billet-aluminum-package/

Let me know your thoughts.

UPDATE: pics posted in 2nd page

[CyborgGT]

They serve opposite purposes. FFC arms are more of a detail to show off, whereas the Hard Race (a known good brand, btw) bars will allow you to mess with camber and toe settings. If you happen to have an alignment shop that knows how to properly adjust for a 'performance street' setup, you could benefit from them.

[TheSnigg]

Ok so one is bling and the other is bang. I will go with the bang lol. I appreciate the input! And I have a shop that should know what to do.

[accordlove]

They serve opposite purposes. FFC arms are more of a detail to show off, whereas the Hard Race (a known good brand, btw) bars will allow you to mess with camber and toe settings. If you happen to have an alignment shop that knows how to properly adjust for a 'performance street' setup, you could benefit from them.

Do you know anything about function and form lca's?

[Raf99]

Agreed. You adjust camber through upper arm not lower. But my vote is FFC as they were on this site and they look 10X better.

[CyborgGT]

^ But if you have that adjustable lower arm, does that not suddenly make it possible to move the bottom of the wheel inward and outward, thereby changing camber from an additional point?

As for F&F, they're style pieces just like FFC. They don't look as solid to my eye, but from what I hear they clear the exhaust better because the arm on the one side is angled differently.

[Raf99]

^ But if you have that adjustable lower arm, does that not suddenly make it possible to move the bottom of the wheel inward and outward, thereby changing camber from an additional point?

As for F&F, they're style pieces just like FFC. They don't look as solid to my eye, but from what I hear they clear the exhaust better because the arm on the one side is angled differently.

It does, not sure who would need to do this though. Could work to the advantage for some who are doing extreme offsets or lowering. Usually these arms were made for cars that didn't have rear upper adjustment like so

[deevergote]

Adjustable camber is useful for racing purposes, but most people that are asking such questions on forums lack the knowledge (and probably the need and tools) to utilize it in such a way. My rule is that if I don't understand or need a function, I'm better off without it. More movable and adjustable parts are just more stuff to break!

I would always go with FFC, but I'm biased. I know the guys behind it, and I know that they're truly standup guys. They don't sell junk.

[TheSnigg]

Interesting,

So if you have rear upper djustment there is no need for the rear lower? The longer arms are camber and the shorter arms are most likely toe adjustment. I wonder why they make both? Upper and lower. They carry a good selection of parts for our CB's.

Have any of you had experience with Frame Brace bars at all??

[deevergote]

First off, how low are you? Are you racing? Camber correction can be done in the rear with longer automotive grade bolts and shims. Much simpler than an adjustable arm that may or may not be of comparable quality and strength to your oem parts. Simply lowering the car adds negative camber. More than that is only good if you know what you're doing on a track, or if you're trying to get all the instagram followers you can get.

What frame brace bars do you speak of? The rear lower tie bar is useless on a CB, as that's not a chassis flex point. There are other far less common braces that can go under the car. I haven't heard enough feedback on any of them to say whether or not they're worth the considerable expense.

[marcusv8thunder]

Hardrace vote here. Have them on mine. I currently run Hardrace rear toe and lower arms. Oem uppers arms (for now anyway)

You can gain camber by lengthing both arms equally. I gained a small amount, -1.9 to -2.5. And still have half the threads. But i wouldnt lengthen any more for safety. So yes they do but not by much. As a rule, gaining camber by widening the rear track via the lower arms, trumps pulling the top of the wheel inbound via the upper arms. Particularly with our long wheelbased cars.

[Corweena]

Interesting,

So if you have rear upper djustment there is no need for the rear lower? The longer arms are camber and the shorter arms are most likely toe adjustment. I wonder why they make both? Upper and lower. They carry a good selection of parts for our CB's.

Have any of you had experience with Frame Brace bars at all??

They make them because they can sell them. And if you look at their design, its identical to Megan's. Same with their front upper control arms. I even think for the 7th Gen Accord someone figured out the Hardrace arms were made alongside Megan and TruHart. They are all identical minus the colors. I believe they even used the same balljoints. I wouldn't be surprised if for the 4th Gen its the same. Hardrace makes bushings primarily. Anything like adjustable arms they probably contract out, and I wouldn't be surprised if its Megan. Something maybe you can look into Deev.

But yes, if you have an adjustable upper arm like an SPC one, then the hardrace kit is pointless really. You already have camber adjustability, and toe adjustment via the eccentric bolt on the rear subframe. That is all you need for 99% of the setups people run.

Plus, like other people have mentioned, the FFC ones look 10x better, are solid contruction, utilize Prothane bushings, and have been around for 10 years now (at least the first CD Accord sets, and the guys running those are still using original bushings). Plus they are Accord guys making parts for Accord guys.

F&F arms are no-no for me. They are ugly and they didn't even do R&D to make them symmetrical (or close) to clear the exhaust. A friend did the test fitting on their 5th Gen Accord set, and offered some tips to help clear the exhaust and make them look more symmetical, and they basically told him it wasn't worth their time and their client target base wouldn't care. Their bushings are trash too. A friend had them and the "poly" bushing started squeaking and went out within a year.

Hardrace vote here. Have them on mine. I currently run Hardrace rear toe and lower arms. Oem uppers arms (for now anyway)

You can gain camber by lengthing both arms equally. I gained a small amount, -1.9 to -2.5. And still have half the threads. But i wouldnt lengthen any more for safety. So yes they do but not by much. As a rule, gaining camber by widening the rear track via the lower arms, trumps pulling the top of the wheel inbound via the upper arms. Particularly with our long wheelbased cars.

The problem is, most people actually buy kits to reduce camber. So instead of your case, they would do the opposite....pull in the lower arms to reduce the camber, instead of pushing out the upper arm. So they are actually narrowing the track width.

In either case, its not much and honestly will not be noticeable driving on the street.


__________________________


Another point I'd like to bring up, which I honestly would not of thought of had my Ingalls camber kit not broken earlier this year.


In switching to a Hardrace kit, with all its adjustability, you're doubling the chance of them them failing (4 arms) vs a traditional camber kit (2 arms). Not saying they will, but odds wise, you are. You're also opening up for more pieces to come loose and mess up your alignment.

I'd much rather keep adjustability to a single piece, and keep the rest of the arms a solid design (like OEM, or FFC). The less parts that can move, the less chance of issues you have to arise.

[deevergote]

Megan doesn't even make their own stuff. They have their stuff made cheaply in Taiwan. Their coilovers are made in the BC factory, I believe... but the quality is lacking. Thinner materials, spotty welds... there's a forum thread somewhere comparing Megan's coilovers to BC coilovers made in the same factory, and the differences are significant. Not in Megan's favor!
Megan Racing is, was, and always will be an "ebay" company. They've just been around long enough that people today seem to believe they're legitimate. Say something over and over again over a long enough period of time, and people will start to believe it.


Aren't the FFC arms made to clear the exhaust? I thought that was one of their most noteworthy features.

I absolutely agree with keeping things simple. One of our old moderators, fizzbob7, once said that... and it stuck with me. The more moving parts, the more there is to break. Keep it simple, and keep the functionality strictly within the parameters of what you need. You don't need more (again, something I address frequently when talking about fully adjustable suspension systems... 99% of the kids on adjustable coilovers lack the need, knowledge, or tools to actually utilize them.)

[TheSnigg]

True true. I like the simplicity approach, and I have not pulled the trigger as I have OEM lower arms with the hardrace bushings equipped. I was looking at getting a new set of arms because I was concerned that I had bent mine. I took the car for alignment and they could not fix the toe of the car. I figured out the issue was the crossmember (has been since swapped out). So I think that problem is solved.

For me every mod has been thought out and the installation process has allowed me to learn about my car and push exactly what I want out of it. I don't want to add too much where I cannot reap any benefits, but I would ultimately like to get into doing my own alignment tweaks to really dial in the steering response, stability, and traction.

[CyborgGT]

The rear lower tie bar is useless on a CB, as that's not a chassis flex point.

I've been wondering about this lately. Does the sway bar bolt up to that same brace the tie bar does on a CB?

Because for my RSX, I've been looking at getting an even stiffer rear sway bar than what I've got (which does share the rear brace with an aftermarket tie bar), and there's talk of the sway bar tearing on that brace under hard use. The chassis itself may not flex there, but the sway bar acting on it is what the brace is designed to work for.