Announcement

Collapse
1 of 2 < >

ANY BUYING/SELLING IN THIS FORUM WILL RESULT IN AN INSTANT BAN!

Read the rules: http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthread.php?t=43956

Myself, and the other mods have been very nice and lenient with the rules. We have been deleting threads, and giving out warnings. Some members didn't get the clue and re-posted over and over... Now ANY member buying or selling in this section will be banned... No IF's AND's or BUT's.
2 of 2 < >

Beginner Forum Rules - EVERYBODY read! (old and new members alike!)

Beginners start here. Once you have 30 worthwhile posts (off topic doesn't count) you may post outside of the Beginner forums. Any "whoring" (posting simply to raise your post count) will return your count to 0, or result in a ban.

These are the rules. Read them. Live by them.

1) Absolutely NO flaming! "Flaming" is an outright attack on a member. ALL questions are encouraged to be asked here, no matter how basic. Members with over 30 posts will be subject to a ONE WEEK ban if caught flaming in this forum (and yes, moderators can read deleted posts). Members with under 30 posts will be subject to a ONE DAY ban.

2) Use appropriate language. Racial or sexual slurs will not be tolerated. A ban will be issued at the discretion of the cb7tuner.com staff.

3) No items may be sold in the Beginner forums. Any "for sale" threads will be deleted.

4) Temporarily banned members will be PERMANTLY banned if they are found posting on another account.

The rules can and will be added to. Any updates will be marked in the title.

The rules for the overall forum can be found here:
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/forumdisplay.php?f=144
Read them. You will be expected to follow them.
See more
See less

Hardrace Or FFC rear arms

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    #16
    The rear lower tie bar, ties the 2 rear lower control arms together. The sway bar mounting point on the cb7 is two bolted on stamped steel brackets. I'm sure those to flex under load. The after market sway bars both mount up in two separate ways. Neither uses the stock attachment points.
    MRT: 1993 Honda Accord SE Coupe (Lola)

    Comment


      #17


      All the red and white bits in this image basically do nothing for a CB7. (unless the sway bar is red... looks orange to me... That does something.)
      This right here... putting the car up in the air and looking at the underside... that's what those things are best for.

      Not sure who's car this is... someone in Canada. Sorry if it's you, Raf! Just found the pic on Google.






      Comment


        #18
        I originally had the F&F rear lower control arms and made my own rear toe arms out of aluminum threaded rod and chromoly rod ends. You can see them in the top of this picture.




        I later decided to purchase a set of rear lower arms from Cheddas Auto because I have all of the camber adjustment I need with the SPC upper control arms. I wouldn't swear by this method, as I'm a little torn myself. But I feel like everyone could benefit from the reduced unsprung weight, but not everyone needs twice the camber adjustment on the rear wheels.
        My Members' Ride Thread - It's a marathon build, not a sprint. But keep me honest on the update frequency!

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by marcusv8thunder View Post
          Hardrace vote here. Have them on mine. I currently run Hardrace rear toe and lower arms. Oem uppers arms (for now anyway)

          You can gain camber by lengthing both arms equally. I gained a small amount, -1.9 to -2.5. And still have half the threads. But i wouldnt lengthen any more for safety. So yes they do but not by much. As a rule, gaining camber by widening the rear track via the lower arms, trumps pulling the top of the wheel inbound via the upper arms. Particularly with our long wheelbased cars.
          Do these lower arms offer the ability to add positive camber? Or to bring the wheels in. I am finalizing my stance now but I am getting some rub on the rear. I am considering my options that would not lead to raising the car back to stock height.

          Comment


            #20
            If you're rubbing, adjusting the camber at the lower control arms will not remedy that. Increased negative camber at the upper control arm would though. What are the specs of the wheels and tires you're running? How much have you lowered your car?

            To chime in on the original topic, if you prefer the hardened rubber then consider keeping the stock rear arms and swapping the bushings.
            1993 Accord DX | Rosewood Brown Metallic

            Comment


              #21
              I was wondering about positive camber on the lower to pull the wheels in as a whole, top to bottom. But I think I will just raise the car some.

              I have swapped the stock arms to hardened rubber already. Made a huge difference.

              Wheels: 17x8 +35 (to run RL calipers)
              Tires: 235/45/r17

              I had the car taken to the tuner to have it corner balanced and alignment. I think he dropped the car to .75" gap all around and adjusted the camber to try and tuck the weels. I don't want the wheels tucked I lie the poke. I will pull the fenders some but I like the fat rubber look.

              @apalileo what are your strut heights on the DX? I like your stance.

              Comment


                #22
                Your tire size is part of the issue. 235 width is great for 8s, but that 45 sidewall is too tall for a CB. A 235/40 will be MUCH better, and rub much less. The overall circumference of the tire is too big compared to stock. Not only will it throw your speedometer off, it's going to rub in other places (that can't be fixed by rolling the fenders).

                On my CD Accord, I bought a set of 17x8 +35s with 235/45s. I rubbed 10x more with those than wit the 17x9 +35s (12mm more aggressive) with 245/40 tires that I ran next. I found they weren't rubbing on the rolled part of the fender, but on the sides of the wheel arches, that you could not roll, where the bumpers meet the fenders. Only way around it was raising the car. Only time I've ever run that tall a tire. I now stick to 235 or 245/40s.
                Last edited by Corweena; 07-02-2017, 03:36 AM.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by TheSnigg View Post
                  Do these lower arms offer the ability to add positive camber? Or to bring the wheels in. I am finalizing my stance now but I am getting some rub on the rear. I am considering my options that would not lead to raising the car back to stock height.
                  Yes they would, but reading what you are trying to do. Its possible it will not be enough. The logical thing since you already got your wheel and tyre combo, is to buy Hardrace uppers and lower arms. Then you have full control of the position of your rear wheels.


                  UKDM 93 CB3 Page (1) H22A U2Q7 LSD
                  UKDM 91 4ws Page (3) OEM Minter
                  NOW H22A U2Q7 SWAPPED

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Corweena View Post
                    Your tire size is part of the issue. 235 width is great for 8s, but that 45 sidewall is too tall for a CB. A 235/40 will be MUCH better, and rub much less. The overall circumference of the tire is too big compared to stock. Not only will it throw your speedometer off, it's going to rub in other places (that can't be fixed by rolling the fenders).

                    On my CD Accord, I bought a set of 17x8 +35s with 235/45s. I rubbed 10x more with those than wit the 17x9 +35s (12mm more aggressive) with 245/40 tires that I ran next. I found they weren't rubbing on the rolled part of the fender, but on the sides of the wheel arches, that you could not roll, where the bumpers meet the fenders. Only way around it was raising the car. Only time I've ever run that tall a tire. I now stick to 235 or 245/40s.
                    My bad I miss typed. They are 235/40.

                    @marcusv8: ok cool. I already have the hard race upper arms. So just the lower I would need.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      235/40 should only be about .2" taller than stock, so that shouldn't be terrible.

                      Honestly, though... if you're having rubbing issues, messing with your camber and overall wheel placement could be risky if you don't truly know what you're doing. You'd be better off just getting a smaller width wheel, or raising your car a bit. Any time you mess with your suspension geometry, you drastically alter the engineers' original intentions. Small suspension changes can have drastic effects on handling, as well as on how related components will wear. This can be fine if you truly know what you're doing, and you can effectively accomplish a predetermined goal by doing so. Otherwise, you could be changing things to the point where your car will break or handle unpredictably when you need it most.

                      Again, I stress keeping things simple. If you don't have the need, knowledge, and tools to make a deliberate, effective change, then keep any changes as minimal as possible. Keeping things simple reduces the chances that things will fail. More moving parts = more opportunity for error and failure. I like to leave as much trust as possible in the engineers that designed the car, because they are much smarter than me!






                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by deevergote View Post
                        235/40 should only be about .2" taller than stock, so that shouldn't be terrible.

                        Honestly, though... if you're having rubbing issues, messing with your camber and overall wheel placement could be risky if you don't truly know what you're doing. You'd be better off just getting a smaller width wheel, or raising your car a bit. Any time you mess with your suspension geometry, you drastically alter the engineers' original intentions. Small suspension changes can have drastic effects on handling, as well as on how related components will wear. This can be fine if you truly know what you're doing, and you can effectively accomplish a predetermined goal by doing so. Otherwise, you could be changing things to the point where your car will break or handle unpredictably when you need it most.

                        Again, I stress keeping things simple. If you don't have the need, knowledge, and tools to make a deliberate, effective change, then keep any changes as minimal as possible. Keeping things simple reduces the chances that things will fail. More moving parts = more opportunity for error and failure. I like to leave as much trust as possible in the engineers that designed the car, because they are much smarter than me!
                        See and I literally just said this to my wife. I agree 100&#37; I'm very reluctant to pull the weels in and shorten the track and overall geometry. I think I'm going to raise the car to where it doesn't rub and adjust everything in that zone.

                        The issue is I took it to my tuner and I think he dropped it some more than where I had it. Are their any advantages of having the rear slightly higher than the fronts? I guess that could be an option as well.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          What's your purpose for this car? Is it going to be used competitively on a track?

                          Raising the rear higher than the front could actually be detrimental to performance, unfortunately. Cars tend to squat on the rear when they launch (even a normal takeoff at a stoplight, not just a drag launch.) When the rear is higher, it gives the rear end more room to travel. More inertia is transferred to the back, and weight is shifted off the drive wheels. This can be combated by stiffening the rear shocks, if that's an option (my Koni Yellows were always set to full stiffness when I went to the drag strip.) The downside to that is that it can make the car uncomfortable, and it can be quite scary on the street.
                          Raising the rear will also raise the center of gravity, which will likely result in the rear end wanting to swing out a bit more during cornering.

                          If it's just a slight adjustment, the effects would probably be negligible. If this is primarily a street car, I say raise it up. Keep it reliable, keep it safe, keep it simple. A CB7 is a fun car on the track, but it'll never be a top contender. Unless the car is going to be spending the majority of its time on the track, tune it for optimal street use.






                          Comment


                            #28
                            If you intend on keeping the wheel and tire combination your best approach is to increase negative camber at the upper arm. Raising your vehicle will only increase the amount of travel before it rubs if nothing else is changed. My rear is set to -1.9&#176; which is more negative than it would be at my current ride height. This, along with trimmed fenders (instead of rolled), clears my tires from my fenders at full compression. I have 225's with +40 offset so your 235's at +35 will definitely require more if you are lower than I am.

                            More adjustable arms is great, so long as you have a trustworthy tech who is willing to measure, adjust, and measure some more. Keep in mind that the stock suspension geometry relies on a fixed rear arm length for the toe adjustments. Having adjustability at all three arms adds more variables for suspension geometry. With each change that is made at each arm, there will be necessary (but not necessarily equal) adjustments to be made at the others and they will have an effect on one another.
                            Last edited by apalileo; 07-03-2017, 01:08 AM.
                            1993 Accord DX | Rosewood Brown Metallic

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Yup. Adjustable upper arm and call it done. Can't go wrong with an SPC kit, as they are really the only high quality, well designed kit left. Good enough for 99% of the time.

                              And like apalileo said, raising the car isn't necessarily a fix. It might rub less, but it will still rub on hard bumps or corners when the suspension compresses enough. Also, what is your suspension setup? Obviously coilovers, but what exactly? The spring rate might not be ideal for the height you have the car set at. Some more information, and pictures would be helpful too.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                the goal of the car is the upper limits of street performance. I definitely plan to track it at some point, and it's not a daily as I have two other cars. This gives me some freedom to experiment. I would like to run it on circuit tracks not so much at the strip so straight line is not what I am going for.

                                Currently my Suspension set up is as follows:
                                Hardrace bushings all around
                                Stock lower arms with hardrace bushings
                                Hardrace upper arms
                                Progress rear sway
                                Gecko coils 8k front 6k rear

                                I don't have pictures at the moment as I am out of town. I will be taking some tomorrow or weds. With the arms I am reluctant to get the adjustable lower arms as it will further complicate the set up and all I want to do is get rid of the rub. I will post an update with pics in a few days

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X