Chris Cornell now Chester Bennington

[owequitit]

It's a false narrative because of your assumption that only people who go through with it have the "strength" to go through with it. But that neglects all the people who don't pull the trigger only because someone else gets to them in time to stop them.

It also assumes that a person who is in the same spot, but makes the opposite decision (for whatever reason) doesn't understand the outcome of making the other decision, when that is also not necessarily true.

And you are correct, every day 22 vets kill themselves and countless more police and even more "normal" people. However, there are also many more that don't, even though they are staring down the barrel of a gun either literally or figuratively that choose not to. Does that make them weak? Does not going through with it make them weaker that someone who does? I don't agree that it does.

Also, I made no point about physical or mental strength because both are required to be strong. Those vets and police etc have lost their EMOTIONAL strength, which is what drives them to do what they do. They simply feel that the alternative is better than sticking around, even if that means ending everything. I make no assumptions that they are weaklings, but the reality is that every human is capable of being either weak or strong at various times depending on their mental state, emotional state and physical state.

On the rest we agree. It needs to not be taboo, it needs to be talked about and people need to be able to be treated for those issues when they occur without fear of reprisal.

[deevergote]

The thing about suicide, and the thought process behind it, is that it ends up seeming like a very rational, very sensible, or potentially unavoidable path to those that choose it.

Put it in a much more common, less permanent sense. Have you ever had a crush on someone as a teenager? You dream of sweeping her off her feet with something dashing, poetic, or even heroic. You envision yourself saying or doing something that will be so incredibly awesome that it couldn't possibly fail. You spend a few days, or longer, planning, plotting, psyching yourself up to do this awesome thing. Then you do it.
Instantly, you realize how absolutely foolish and idiotic you look. And it's not that the plan failed. No. It was just a bad plan. You had convinced yourself that it was absolutely perfect, and it wasn't. The girl laughed. Everyone around you laughed. You were humiliated. But you were SO certain it would work out so perfectly!

You see, you had dwelled on the process and the inevitable result for so long that you were thoroughly convinced that it was without a doubt the best possible course of action. You were so certain that you failed to envision any other outcome. You didn't consider any other approach, because yours was, after all, perfect. It was ideal. You put your blinders on, put your head down, and charged.
Only later did you truly realize how flawed your thinking was.

I know this isn't likely a word-for-word account of anyone's teenage years. Especially those that were relatively popular among the ladies. However, I'm sure pretty much anyone here can relate to the embarrassing pursuit of what at one time seemed to be the perfect plan. (despite my dismal success at wooing the opposite sex in my teenage years, this particular scenario actually is an utter work of fiction.)



Now, that's the result of a healthy brain, plagued by nothing more than the fading remnants of puberty and an irritating but perfectly normal imbalance of hormones.
Factor in things like mental illness, PTSD, depression, substance abuse, addiction (and withdrawal), and other powerful external factors (stress between romantic partners or family members, job stress, etc...) and suddenly that brain is no longer a friendly place. Ideas that may be thoroughly irrational, like suicide, may turn out to seem perfectly rational. Sure, you may think about your family... but you may also be able to convince yourself that they'd be better off without you. You may convince yourself that they don't want you.

Suicide is a rational decision made by a thoroughly irrational mind. It is the result of a warped perspective and severe mental/emotional distress.


I often find myself looking at posts on social media, commercials advertising suicide help lines, and all other things that are a clear attempt to "make things better". It's admirable, but misguided in many ways (not saying such things shouldn't exist... but they aren't likely to do as much good as people think.) If someone wants to kill themselves... TRULY wants to kill themselves... they're not going to call a helpline. They're not going to ask for help. They're not going to intentionally show signs that indicate their plans. In fact, "he/she seemed so happy just a day before!" seems to be fairly common. It could be an act. It could be genuine happiness that they've finally gotten things in order before going through with their plan. Those that ask for help are one of two types. One type recognizes that they're having irrational thoughts. They understand that their suicidal thoughts are not normal. In most instances, such thoughts are brought on by a chemical imbalance as a result in a change in medication, or the onset of an illness. The drastic shift from "normal" to "suicidal" is enough that the person recognizes the irrational nature of their thoughts, and seeks to do something to counteract them. This type of person is not your normal suicide risk. It's possible, sure... but likely among the vast minority of those that actually commit suicide. The second type is the attention seeker. I knew a girl in high school that was one such person. She would threaten suicide, and the world would stop. People would spend hours talking her down. She'd occasionally make small cuts on her wrists to show her "attempt" (none were ever actually deep enough to be life-threatening.) Once, my friend called her on her bullshit. "Do it. If you want to do it, do it!" She shut up. Suddenly the threats stopped. She's happily married with kids now. This isn't to say that my friend's actions in telling her to do it were wise... and no threat should be dismissed solely as attention seeking (such dismissal could potentially turn such a person into an actual suicide risk...) but people such as these are the ones that will seek help... because help is attention. Granted, if they're seeking attention, they probably DO need some sort of help... because that is still a form of reaching out. But that sort of person threatening suicide is also not likely to be a serious suicide risk.


The reasons behind the actions of those that follow through with it are far deeper than "the easy way out" or "weakness"... or even "strength". The reasons behind suicide lie in a flawed thought process that allows a person to believe they are acting rationally all the way through an irreversible action.

[H311RA151N]

I've personally never attempted to end my own life. Although I've been careless intentionally which I guess is kinda the same... I guess? Anyhow I battled with depression ever since I could remember and still do to a certain degree. I believed that it was circumstantial. My circumstances were poor. I was given a hard path pretty much from birth. That compiled with poor decision making led to my circumstances pretty much always being less than desirable. I could envision myself content and happy and I set goals to achieve those things but didn't really have the skills to know how.

Knowing you are a bit off your rocker is beneficial. It was for me anyhow. The question of why I struggled so much was officially answered following a sleep study and a form of brain scan. I don't remember or know when but apparently some time at a young age I suffered a brain injury.

That pretty much told me that all the information for "normal people" wasn't going to work for me. No one else was going to have the answers for me because my problems weren't like theirs. Not that I went to work right away after finding out that I had an issue because I didn't. But I felt a lot better knowing it wasn't me or my fault if you get my drift.

I had to go down my own path. Alone. I had to figure out what worked for me and get to know myself. No one was going to have the answers for me. Eventually before I knew it things just got better. I wish there were more to it but that's how it happened. Everything I think became easier to accept just knowing why I was different and struggled.


My opinion on suicide is this.

No one ever in their right mind has killed themselves or killed another. I know that's not going to sit well with some but it is what it is.

Mental illness can be brought on by substance abuse, physiological abuse, chemical imbalances in the brain, brain injuries and so forth.

But one can give their selves a chemical imbalance. It takes times but can and does happen. Someone doesn't have to be victimized or be a drug abuser to alter their mental state. An altered mental state can be practiced.

The thing about mental illness is no two mentally ill people are mentally ill in the same way. Similarities can be found and two mentally ill people can even be very compatible socially.

It's like a car. You can take two cars that are identical but they don't wear the same because they don't live the same life. Different locations, drivers, roads etc.

The same goes with people. I've found that it's best to not judge someone else's situation as right or wrong or with any other labels. The simple fact is that no one knows what that person is going through. I try not to judge anyone for anything because each of us here only know what it's like to be ourselves.

I don't think one human can rightfully judge another human. And I'm glad I'm not in charge of maintaining order of the masses. I think there are methods better than others but nothing any man comes up with to judge another man will be completely and thoroughly right and just.

Man cannot achieve perfection in governing another. But order must be maintained. Someone else's battles are not my own. And if it isn't constructive, helpful or anything I can do to help someone I think it's best to leave the situation alone. Because only they can help themselves in the end. And the best thing most of us can do is hope they get things figured out.