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Old 12-29-2018, 11:21 AM   #2401
toycar
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Welds need more amps and gas helps a ton. Tig>mig if you are looking for nice welds

Better valve train in general, not just springs.

Where you are at on your compressor map for airflow? If your turbo supports it, adding pressure will be 90% of what gets you there on the power. Cams will be important too.

What rpm do you turn the motor to currently?

Most likely the easiest way to your power goals are more pressure, more rpms and cam work/valve train work.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 12-29-2018, 02:21 PM   #2402
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Flux core isn't pretty, but it works.
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Old 12-29-2018, 10:12 PM   #2403
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Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
Was also practicing my welds last night. Really do get a lot of slag with a no gas mig. The last one i really started to let the material build up. Kind of started to clue in as to how to 1. create the puddle, 2. drag it along or add to it

These are all way too cold, and there’s a lot of slag there. When doing flux core, make sure you’re welding on DCEN. Have your wire stick out 1/2” or 13mm from the gun, and keep a constant drag angle of around 10 degrees.

What welder do you have? What’s the thickness on that plate you’re practicing on?

This isn’t my best flux weld by any means, but it’s the only picture I have.. this was my attempt to stack dimes with flux


Edit: I use Lincoln .030 on a Hobart 140
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Old 12-30-2018, 07:56 PM   #2404
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haha ... DCEN eh. never heard of it. Ya. I'm more noob than you thank haha
I bought the cheapest MIG welder i could find so I could figure things out
I have a 1/2" thick piece of metal that I can just lay beads on

It's a Powerfist 100E mig (no gas). 0.0030 wire flux. One low/high button and wire speed. From what I know and learned it sucks! & I can't wait to upgrade. But I'm starting to slowly learn that for thinner metals you're never laying beads with a mig?

I'm just trying to think of my future use for this product. I always wanted to be able to weld exhaust I guess.....
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:10 PM   #2405
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
Welds need more amps and gas helps a ton. Tig>mig if you are looking for nice welds

Better valve train in general, not just springs.

Where you are at on your compressor map for airflow? If your turbo supports it, adding pressure will be 90% of what gets you there on the power. Cams will be important too.

What rpm do you turn the motor to currently?

Most likely the easiest way to your power goals are more pressure, more rpms and cam work/valve train work.
Ya, I'd love to get in to TIG. Meh...

Compressor map for airflow? You mean what percentage is the turbo running at?

Currently I will take the motor up to 7800rpm.

My main Q was if I were to build a head what should one aim for. Assume it will be the same built lower end block and 500HP goals.
- same size valves? (No benefit for my purpose to have larger?)
- double valve springs? (do i need to rev to 9000K?)
- stage 3 cams (not something you do with turbo build to my knowledge)

I have not read enough to determine the benefit of each. I think if you do one you should do all, ie - drag car = larger valves = double springs = cams. I just want reliable. .... think I'll have to start doing some research....
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Old 12-30-2018, 08:53 PM   #2406
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Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
Ya, I'd love to get in to TIG. Meh...

Compressor map for airflow? You mean what percentage is the turbo running at?

Currently I will take the motor up to 7800rpm.

My main Q was if I were to build a head what should one aim for. Assume it will be the same built lower end block and 500HP goals.
- same size valves? (No benefit for my purpose to have larger?)
- double valve springs? (do i need to rev to 9000K?)
- stage 3 cams (not something you do with turbo build to my knowledge)

I have not read enough to determine the benefit of each. I think if you do one you should do all, ie - drag car = larger valves = double springs = cams. I just want reliable. .... think I'll have to start doing some research....

TIG is only worth it if you plan on welding a lot over time. Otherwise consider outsourcing to a pro for the money saved.


Better cams arent necessarily "stage 3"

They're better designed lift/duration for moving flow towards a higher rpm range/rpm speed. If its ideal for airflow up to 7800, you're choking at 8500. Hope that makes sense. The "event" is shorter duration at higher speed so the lift and duration profile become much more critical at a higher engine speed.

If you turned to 9k, and added some pressure youd smash 500hp no problem

Stronger, lighter valves and springs that support the engine speed would be really important.

Tolerance in the build and what speed your crank eas balanced to would also be something to keep in mind. Oil flow gets finicky at higher rpms.

Solve that puzzle of variables and 500hp is a breeze.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 12-30-2018, 09:11 PM   #2407
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
haha ... DCEN eh. never heard of it. Ya. I'm more noob than you thank haha
I bought the cheapest MIG welder i could find so I could figure things out
I have a 1/2" thick piece of metal that I can just lay beads on

It's a Powerfist 100E mig (no gas). 0.0030 wire flux. One low/high button and wire speed. From what I know and learned it sucks! & I can't wait to upgrade. But I'm starting to slowly learn that for thinner metals you're never laying beads with a mig?

I'm just trying to think of my future use for this product. I always wanted to be able to weld exhaust I guess.....
Yeah itís just a series a tack welds with mig. The same process, but more forgiving and less messy.

DCEN (direct current electrode negative) means your wire gun should be connected to the negative terminal of the welder, and the ground should be connected to the positive terminal. The amount of spatter you have makes me think itís reversed.
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Old 12-30-2018, 11:12 PM   #2408
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I want to do TIG as well, at least just enough to get into some trouble. I'm sure MIG would cover everything automotive except titanium and magnesium.

Do you have a Dyno chart? You probably don't need much if any head/cam/valve work. How does playing around with cam timing affect your torque curve? H heads should flow well enough for 500.

Yep airflow vs pressure map to make sure you have some headroom to up the boost without the turbo becoming a heatgun for your intake.
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Old 01-05-2019, 08:05 AM   #2409
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
Welds need more amps and gas helps a ton. Tig>mig if you are looking for nice welds

Better valve train in general, not just springs.

Where you are at on your compressor map for airflow? If your turbo supports it, adding pressure will be 90% of what gets you there on the power. Cams will be important too.

What rpm do you turn the motor to currently?

Most likely the easiest way to your power goals are more pressure, more rpms and cam work/valve train work.
Have to admit not really following you on the compressor map for airflow. In SManager we are doing a 25% fixed duty cycle currently. So the turbo has more room for more power and so does everything else. From what I know modifying the head only allows for higher rpms and that is all. Currently rev limit is set to 8000rpm.


Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
TIG is only worth it if you plan on welding a lot over time. Otherwise consider outsourcing to a pro for the money saved.


Better cams arent necessarily "stage 3"

They're better designed lift/duration for moving flow towards a higher rpm range/rpm speed. If its ideal for airflow up to 7800, you're choking at 8500. Hope that makes sense. The "event" is shorter duration at higher speed so the lift and duration profile become much more critical at a higher engine speed.

If you turned to 9k, and added some pressure youd smash 500hp no problem

Stronger, lighter valves and springs that support the engine speed would be really important.

Tolerance in the build and what speed your crank eas balanced to would also be something to keep in mind. Oil flow gets finicky at higher rpms.

Solve that puzzle of variables and 500hp is a breeze.
Yep, I hear ya. thanks man


Quote:
Originally Posted by F22Chris View Post
Yeah it’s just a series a tack welds with mig. The same process, but more forgiving and less messy.

DCEN (direct current electrode negative) means your wire gun should be connected to the negative terminal of the welder, and the ground should be connected to the positive terminal. The amount of spatter you have makes me think it’s reversed.
Ya... this welder doesn't have connections like that. Just a cheap welder.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sonikaccord View Post
I want to do TIG as well, at least just enough to get into some trouble. I'm sure MIG would cover everything automotive except titanium and magnesium.

Do you have a Dyno chart? You probably don't need much if any head/cam/valve work. How does playing around with cam timing affect your torque curve? H heads should flow well enough for 500.

Yep airflow vs pressure map to make sure you have some headroom to up the boost without the turbo becoming a heatgun for your intake.
What would the dyno chart show us here?

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Old 01-05-2019, 02:01 PM   #2410
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Duty cycle is reference to injector pulse length. Plenty of room in your fuel system for more if thats where you are.


Compressor map is a graph of the airflow characteristics the turbo. Pretty complex to describe briefly but read up on understanding a compressor map and apply that to an compressor map for your turbo.

Air pressure is only a singular indication of flow. At some point pressure chokes the turbo. You'll need to accomodate pressure at higher rpms so you can obtain better airflow and that comes from adjusting valve timing, meaning your cam(s) will be the thing holding back airflow generating unnecessary pressure. If you have the valves closed too long you'll see pressure, because you have a sealed cylinder. If your valves are open longer itll require more air to generate the pressure. That's the short version of an explanation.

Hope that makes sense. Making big power with a turbo means the turbo is breathing through the motor. The turbo becomes the primary powerplant basically and you'll have to engineer around its constraints not the engine. Piston speed, dwell times, stroke length, lift and duration become things to really look at when you are trying to turn to really high rpms.

Sorry, posting on my phone or I'd offer a more detailed explanation. Read up on those things and maybe itll make more sense.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.

Last edited by toycar; 01-05-2019 at 02:04 PM.
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Old 01-05-2019, 05:14 PM   #2411
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All good & ya that makes sense. Has it ever been documented on the HP / flow limitation of the H22 head ? or the gains ?
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Old 01-05-2019, 07:01 PM   #2412
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If your specs on P1 are still accurate @17psi, you just need to add more pressure/tune and you'll make way more than 500whp with nothing else needed.


Looking at your compressor map(googled it) you hit peak efficiency around 2.4-2.6 bar almost twice the pressure you are running.


So basically you havent even started using the turbo to anywhere close to its potential yet.

I would consider paying a professional for the tune so you get there relatively safely without risking blowing your investment. Totally worth the few hundo to get you there.

You'll probably find traction becomes the issue or maybe it already is though.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 01-06-2019, 09:55 AM   #2413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toycar View Post
If your specs on P1 are still accurate @17psi, you just need to add more pressure/tune and you'll make way more than 500whp with nothing else needed.


Looking at your compressor map(googled it) you hit peak efficiency around 2.4-2.6 bar almost twice the pressure you are running.


So basically you havent even started using the turbo to anywhere close to its potential yet.

I would consider paying a professional for the tune so you get there relatively safely without risking blowing your investment. Totally worth the few hundo to get you there.

You'll probably find traction becomes the issue or maybe it already is though.
Ya, traction is already an issue but can just change over to boost by gear when i go with more HP. So how do I tell if I'm maxing out my injectors or not?
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Old 01-06-2019, 04:48 PM   #2414
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
Ya, traction is already an issue but can just change over to boost by gear when i go with more HP. So how do I tell if I'm maxing out my injectors or not?
Well easy way is duty cycle. 25% duty cycle means they're basically operating 25% length pulse of a potential 100% pulse. So you have lots of headroom there. I would be more worried about maintaining fuel pressure as you start flowing more fuel.

More complex way of getting to the bottom of the injector question is think math.

You know what your afrs are, you can learn how much air volume (lbs/min)you are pushing.

So how much fuel would it take to create the afr? Divide by fuel volume by 4, convert to cc's, compound that over the course of a minute and there you go.

My guess is that you are using 30-40% of what your injector is capable of. You sont ever want to be 100%. Duty cycle around 60-70% is what I usually aim for.
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im a douchebag to people and i don't even own a lambo. whats your point? we, douchbags, come in all sorts of shapes and colours.
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Old 01-12-2019, 07:59 PM   #2415
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Originally Posted by toycar View Post
Well easy way is duty cycle. 25% duty cycle means they're basically operating 25% length pulse of a potential 100% pulse. So you have lots of headroom there. I would be more worried about maintaining fuel pressure as you start flowing more fuel.

More complex way of getting to the bottom of the injector question is think math.

You know what your afrs are, you can learn how much air volume (lbs/min)you are pushing.

So how much fuel would it take to create the afr? Divide by fuel volume by 4, convert to cc's, compound that over the course of a minute and there you go.

My guess is that you are using 30-40% of what your injector is capable of. You sont ever want to be 100%. Duty cycle around 60-70% is what I usually aim for.

Hmm... at 410HP and using 880CC injectors I was always under the impression that I was maxing them out. But did not have the knowledge to determine that answer. I always assumed (was told) to go more power meth will probably be needed, head work, fuel pump. How do you learn how to tell what is maxed out and what isn't? yaa...

Anywho.......... got some good news!! I did the compression tests on Sally after the valve adjustments I did. And the results are .... pretty nice I think these results are great as the engine was built to be 8:5:1 compression. And the shop who built it did an amazing job too. All high quality parts used.

per the evans tuning checklist:
8:1-8.5:1 compression: 150-170 psi per cylinder
8.5:1~9.5:1 compression: 170-210 psi per cylinder
9.5:1~11:1 compression: 210-275 psi per cylinder
11:1+ compression: 250+ per cylinder (highly depends on cams being used)








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Old 01-12-2019, 09:06 PM   #2416
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Nice numbers Raf. Speaking of meth, I was planning on eventually running a meth injection but first wanted to have the motor run normal before I introduce another variable. One kit I was interested in is called cooling mist. Don’t waste your money if you do go meth and buy boost juice. All it is is windshield washer fluid 50/50 solution. So go to Walmart or whatever you have in Nova Scotia and buy it for 2-3 CADs.
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Old 01-13-2019, 08:34 PM   #2417
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haha...

So we drained her coolant today and are going to tackle the upper rad hose again and make it a braided hose. Big thanks to Rilas for sending me a straight end. We are going to....

1. Shorten the upper rad connection
2. weld an end on each coolant connector
3. Use a combo of swivel heads and straight head to get the short 16AN braided line to bend/work...



This is to address this issue......



Don't know if this will work, wish me luck
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Old 01-13-2019, 10:10 PM   #2418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raf99 View Post
Hmm... at 410HP and using 880CC injectors I was always under the impression that I was maxing them out. But did not have the knowledge to determine that answer. I always assumed (was told) to go more power meth will probably be needed, head work, fuel pump. How do you learn how to tell what is maxed out and what isn't? yaa...

Anywho.......... got some good news!! I did the compression tests on Sally after the valve adjustments I did. And the results are .... pretty nice I think these results are great as the engine was built to be 8:5:1 compression. And the shop who built it did an amazing job too. All high quality parts used.

per the evans tuning checklist:
8:1-8.5:1 compression: 150-170 psi per cylinder
8.5:1~9.5:1 compression: 170-210 psi per cylinder
9.5:1~11:1 compression: 210-275 psi per cylinder
11:1+ compression: 250+ per cylinder (highly depends on cams being used)









You are probably flowing around 42-43lbs/min air and have 3500cc/min of fuel delivery potential.

Consider AFR ratios when doing the math. You have some headroom before you hit burdensome loads on your injectors

If you read the compressor map itíll tell you airflow lbs/min and you could estimate the fuel needed for ideal AFR, but the short answer is you have plenty of room.

Meth helps. Ethanol available?

Alcohol fuel has a higher tolerance for detonation. Not needed for more power. Just helps with room for error. So does race gas and higher octane fuel.
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Old 01-14-2019, 04:14 PM   #2419
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Ethanol, not at the pump. Race gas = yes.

Oh man, so many questions. I'm dying to tune myself but ahhhhhhhhhh

OK Stupid Q #1 - Where is my compressor map?
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Old 01-14-2019, 06:26 PM   #2420
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Ethanol, not at the pump. Race gas = yes.

Oh man, so many questions. I'm dying to tune myself but ahhhhhhhhhh

OK Stupid Q #1 - Where is my compressor map?
Google search your turbo and add compressor map. Then once you get it print it out and use Domesticated DIY to see how your turbo performs.
http://www.cb7tuner.com/vbb/showthre...light=Properly

Or read Garrett’s explation. It’s is an awesome tool to see how your turbo performs.
https://www.garrettmotion.com/racing...hoose-a-turbo/
When I was selecting my turbo I used a compressor map to find my borg Warner. It shows you it’s limits and when it’s most efficient.
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