Haters

[Raf99]

All one can do is lead by example.

And don't encourage those who do this improperly. One also has to admit that the amount of manufactures making cheap parts and convincing kids to buy them has a role in this. Kind of like the sex sells thing. Kids are dumb enough to buy it so we'll keep making it (and use every trick in the book to make sure they fall for it. example: shocks/springs combos)

But Jarrett hit the nail on the head. My question to everyone is why are you hanging around (social media, etc.) people who are doing this? See it in the FB group, leave. See it at a car meet, leave. If no-one is there to support their habit they will stop.

Again, lead by example. (This may result in you being a loner :P )

[deevergote]

My situation (until recently, when I just stopped caring) regarding the CB7tuner Facebook group was a bit unique... since leaving wasn't really an option (and honestly, still shouldn't be... but I was doing more harm than good.) Everyone else, though... people that aren't trying to protect the CB7tuner brand, yes... remove that crap from your life. Trying to change the idiots is a noble endeavor, but one destined to fail. The ones that want to change will seek you out if you provide an example. The ones that don't want to change never will, regardless of what you say. 10 people can tell an idiot the right way to do something, but it only takes one person to tell him the wrong way is OK, and he'll follow that lead. Path of least resistance.

Honestly, I'm often intrigued by the "easy way"... and there are people on here that I know for a fact would e-rip me a new one if I actually did any of it! I don't care what "people on the internet" think... but most of the regular members here are no longer "people on the internet". Most of the regular members here are so familiar that I guarantee I could sit down and have a beer with any one of you, and it'd feel like we've known each other for years, rather than just meeting face to face for the first time. You're not total strangers, and you're not total idiots. Your opinions and advice matter. My respect for the members of this forum, as well as the respect OF the members of this forum, are important factors in many decisions that I make. When one of you says "don't do that. It's a bad idea", I generally take it seriously.

I do agree that the manufacturers are a HUGE influence in what parts are attractive to the kids today. Or, probably more accurately, the marketers. I recently said that companies like D2, Raceland, Megan Racing, and any other copycat company is not a "parts manufacturer". They are marketing companies. They take parts manufactured by some undisclosed source, and they dress them all up nice... make them look pretty in shiny chrome, rich purple, sporty red... slap up a website with lots of pictures of professional race cars (D2 is famous for doing this... using images of DTM cars that raced before the company ever existed.) Then they give a few away to magazine editors, scene kiddies, and people with a powerful online presence. Within a handful of years, people take the company to be legit... and don't even bother looking into their history, or the source of their parts. The opinions of people that don't know any better end up being the ultimate in word of mouth advertising. Since the prices are consistently lower than legitimate parts, the "path of least resistance" mentality wins out. 10 people saying "it's junk, and here's why" are ignored in favor of "my boi haz dem an he sez dey da shyt."
The knockoff part game is a delicate recipe of persistence, ignorance, optimism, and "competitive" pricing.

[h22sparkle]

Yeah it's all about marketing. Not sure who's really legit anymore aside from names that used to be good back in the day that made quality parts for the price.

[deevergote]

You have to actually research a company now to know what's good and what's crap.

Suspension companies are some of the biggest offenders, yet they're some of the easiest to identify the fakes. Basically, if a suspension company gives absolutely no information about their engineering and manufacturing processes and facilities, it is highly likely that they do not engineer or manufacture anything at all. Companies like D2 and Raceland just order their crap from whatever Chinese or Taiwanese manufacturer they choose (I bet they even use multiple suppliers). The Chinese/Taiwanese companies acquire one set of "real" coilovers, make a thousand quick copies as cheaply as possible, and paint them whatever color their customers desire.

I could buy a set of Emusa coilovers for $400 or less. I could spraypaint them dark red and sell them as "Bloody Baron" coilovers for $600. I would be doing the EXACT SAME THING that Emusa, D2, Truhart, Raceland, and the three dozen other crappy suspension companies do. I'd be laughed at for doing so... which is funny, because those companies are taken seriously for some reason, and they do the same thing.

Ignore sponsored racing teams or drivers, unless you recognize the name. If Ken Block uses something, it's probably good. If Javier Finklestein of Podunk, Nebraska uses suspension from a particular company for his LeMons race car... the brand is probably garbage. Chances are, if a company is sponsoring a big-name driver in a high-profile racing series, their products are going to be on the pricey end anyway!
Ignore magazines. Magazines exist to sell advertising space, and magazine editors are not professional racers, engineers, or mechanics. I've seen Super Street magazine praising D2 coilovers, and I'd sooner tickle my taint with a chainsaw than install D2 crap on my car!

[Shadow1]

to hate:

to be mean or act mean towards someone because you have something they want but can't have. So they talk junk or "trash" about you. Use the term right. No one is "hating" on rep wheels, decals or rep parts. You do however have A-holes that talk trash because they think they're better than people who have rep wheels when they spent $4k on theirs.

When you have a whole group that uses words like an idiot, that'll happen. No one is hating. But we do have a bunch of people in our culture that decide that because you're not rocking $3k+ wheels on your $500 car, you're automatically "cheap", "fake", or beneath them. One of my friends went to a show and had the trophy he won taken from him because the judges found out he has XXRs. Wtf? Why should that matter? He obviously executed the car well to be able to get the trophy in the 1st place.

I remain part of this culture because of the friends i have and continue to make. But i abstain from anyone with that kind of mentality tho.

[deevergote]

You kinda missed the whole point here, T.

[CyborgGT]

Quoting Deev...

"If Ken Block uses something, it's probably good."

... even though in half the rally stages he enters, he manages to kartwheel into a bush?

[whitejdmcb7]

Why don't we just start safety-oriented trends that improve the safety of our vehicle over stock?

I'm installing the passenger air bag from a '93 SE sedan in my car. I bought the wiring harness and brain to hook it all up correctly, too.

We can post Facebook updates as each of us leave the dealer from having the belts inspected or replaced if the retractors are lazy or broken.

We can make first-aid kits, roadside hazard accessories and properly-maintained spares a popular thing to do, too. Just post pictures on Facebook for the kids to see them and we'll all give you props and congratulate each other for them.

I've got Brembo calipers for both my Accord and my CL, but I'll admit those are more style points than decreased stopping distance. Good pads and lines could have done that.


If nothing else, doing all of that stuff will just annoy them, and that's fine with me too.

ilike this idea as well people keep telling me to delete the abs too i like it personally its helped out in some situations where i couldve slid into a ditch if abs wasnt working properly i like having airbags and working seatbelts.

This whole hellaflush stuff people are doing just makes me afraid to drive around them cheap coilovers wheels that dont fit properly 1/8 of the tire on the ground just gives me the willies

[lbus9168]

Quoting Deev...

"If Ken Block uses something, it's probably good."

... even though in half the rally stages he enters, he manages to kartwheel into a bush?

holy shit. 10/10.

in saying that, my homies ride does have the good shiz in it bro.

By that, i mean he has had a custom set of MCA suspension Coilovers made for his Z32 300z, and i can tell you theyre are the SHIZ.

I cant be gangsta enough to Say this well.

but seriously, if your an australian and want performance suspsension, go MCA.

[Raf99]

.... One of my friends went to a show and had the trophy he won taken from him because the judges found out he has XXRs. Wtf? Why should that matter? He obviously executed the car well to be able to get the trophy in the 1st place. .....

Hmmm, tough call there. A car can look good but be made of 100% cheap ebay parts. I'm sure we've all seen the "ebay turbo build" cars on youtube, etc. Can you say this car was professionally built, not really. If the car show was a professional car show and not a walmart car show I can understand this ruling.

[sonikaccord]

Hmmm, tough call there. A car can look good but be made of 100% cheap ebay parts. I'm sure we've all seen the "ebay turbo build" cars on youtube, etc. Can you say this car was professionally built, not really. If the car show was a professional car show and not a walmart car show I can understand this ruling.

Since when have certain brands determined whether or not you place in a show?? I've never heard of this happening, but I don't follow the show car sanctions. I'll go find the rule book.

[deevergote]

Quoting Deev...

"If Ken Block uses something, it's probably good."

... even though in half the rally stages he enters, he manages to kartwheel into a bush?

That's due more to him pushing the car or himself beyond the limit. As a high-profile professional driver, I feel 100% confident (without even looking it up) that Ken Block doesn't have any knockoff suspension components on his car. No cheapie Chinese/Taiwanese copycat stuff sold by companies that couldn't engineer a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.

My point in comparing Ken Block and some random no-name "racer" is that any company that uses "sponsored" "professional" drivers that have absolutely no reputation to market their products PROBABLY aren't selling quality goods.

Companies that make musical instruments do the same thing. If you see a Gibson ad in a magazine, it'll probably include a picture of Slash, or some other guitarist that has at least a one platinum record to his name. I recall seeing a Squier ad that featured some guy I never heard of, playing for a band that I never heard of (not at the time the ad was printed, and never again after seeing the ad.) The dude was a nobody, playing for a band that was probably already broken up by the time the ad made it to print. Now, Squier is a legitimate company... they're a subsidiary of Fender... just their budget line. Still, the cheap-crap copycat budget line used no-name "celebrities" to hock their goods... while the real-deal used legitimate celebrities with considerable talent.

I've actually seen people claim the effectiveness of junk suspension components by referring to the "professionals" mentioned on the company's website. It was a while ago, and I forget the name of the unknown "professional" in the ad... they were a drifter or something... but I do recall that a Google search revealed absolutely NOTHING about this person. Yet their presence in an advertisement, showing their S13 sliding sideways, was good enough to convince some poor fool that the suspension components were worth buying.

And yes, I was called a "hater" for pointing out that the brand was likely crap, and potentially dangerous. I was asked "did u ever own them?", as if I need to do something I know to be stupid just to verify its stupidity (I never put my dick in a blender, and I don't have to try it to know it's a bad idea!)

ilike this idea as well people keep telling me to delete the abs too i like it personally its helped out in some situations where i couldve slid into a ditch if abs wasnt working properly i like having airbags and working seatbelts.

This whole hellaflush stuff people are doing just makes me afraid to drive around them cheap coilovers wheels that dont fit properly 1/8 of the tire on the ground just gives me the willies

That's where I draw the line... and where I tend to get called a "hater" quite a bit. People think I'm insulting their sense of style, rather than the danger presented by their modifications (to themselves, their passengers, other drivers, and private/public property.) They defend their stretched tires, 0 offset wheels, and extreme negative camber simply by saying "I ain't never crashed", or "my homie had his like this for 2 years and he's fine." Sure, I've known heroin addicts that haven't been clean for over a decade. Some managed to be addicted that long and kick the habit for good. It doesn't mean using heroin is a good idea!
Add into the mix a mismatched or low-quality suspension system, and it's almost criminal. I can't tell you how many ebay coilover and stock shock combos I've seen lately... and all "ride fine". Lack of understanding about the importance of ball joints and wheel bearings make it even worse. Then you throw in some low-quality wheels to top it all off. Normally, I don't have a huge problem with low-quality cast wheels. Even replicas, like Rota (though I'm not a fan of replicas that copy existing available models... as that pushes the companies that make the original designs right out of our market.) I don't mind them when they fit properly. But take one of those lower quality wheels, ride around on the inner edge of a wide barrel... and watch it warp, bend, and crack! I'm sure the term "hub centric rings" means absolutely nothing to 90% of the stance kiddies running secondhand XXRs.

Hmmm, tough call there. A car can look good but be made of 100% cheap ebay parts. I'm sure we've all seen the "ebay turbo build" cars on youtube, etc. Can you say this car was professionally built, not really. If the car show was a professional car show and not a walmart car show I can understand this ruling.

I've seen cars with cheap reproduction parts that look fantastic. I've seen cars with expensive originals slapped on with no sense of purpose or style.
As long as safety isn't compromised, and the reproductions used aren't sending a clear message to the originators and innovators that we don't want their products... I have absolutely no problem with such things. Even ebay turbo kits... sure, they're junk, and they may cause engine damage... but if it's a risk the buyer is aware of, so what? Nobody will get hurt when they blow their engine. Garrett won't stop making turbos. Nobody loses, except the person that made the decision to go cheap. My ONLY beef with cheap, low-quality components is when people tell ignorant noobs to use them. Granted, any noob should educate themselves before installing cheap parts (because when the price is half that of the competition, you REALLY need to be skeptical...) Still, people will blindly trust other enthusiasts just because they drive the same car.

Since when have certain brands determined whether or not you place in a show?? I've never heard of this happening, but I don't follow the show car sanctions. I'll go find the rule book.

I haven't been to many legit car shows, but I'm not aware of any that specifically judge based on the brand of parts you have installed. Some shows (especially model-specific shows, or at least brand-specific) may recognize parts that are rare or exceptionally high quality... but most general car shows don't give a rat's ass about your wheel brand. If you have a shiny car riding on a set of Slipstreams, you'll probably beat the car with faded paint that's riding on SW388s.
Some kid on the internet might call you a poser, though... because YOU didn't spend $2000 on wheels (which is apparently a requirement for other people, but one from which he is exempt... or "still rollin' on stocks until I can afford some real wheels yo!")

[Shadow1]

You kinda missed the whole point here, T.

Lol. Nope. Never missed the point. I see stuff like this pop up all the time. The trash talk to others because of the brands they use. It shouldn't matter which brand you use. As long as you rep that brand. That you rep yourself. Not do the build for the masses.

Hmmm, tough call there. A car can look good but be made of 100% cheap ebay parts. I'm sure we've all seen the "ebay turbo build" cars on youtube, etc. Can you say this car was professionally built, not really. If the car show was a professional car show and not a walmart car show I can understand this ruling.

Since when have certain brands determined whether or not you place in a show?? I've never heard of this happening, but I don't follow the show car sanctions. I'll go find the rule book.

There you go. Shouldn't matter if it was a show held in front of Walmart or HIN. You shouldn't say "you can only have name brand parts in our show" if you're not contributing to that persons build. The cars that are there are there because they were accepted in. And these judges see the mod list, they see anything like XXR, Rota, Vordoven, etc., then you're automatically denied. Why should it matter what brand i sue. Do I pull of the look? Yes. Do i represent myself and the tuner community with my individuality? Yes.

So why should it matter that i didn't spend $5k on my $1000 car? Why should the car i set up for nothing but show need a $3k suspension set up, $4k wheels and $2k put into the interior? If the XXRs or Vordovens I get have the specs i want at half or even a 1/4 of the cost, it shouldn't matter what band it is. Execution should be the goal. Even if i get a 4th place award, that matters.

[deevergote]

Yeah... you're still missing it, man.

Nobody is bashing reps here.
Although there are at least two good reasons to do so, depending on what is being reproduced...

You don't need a $3000 suspension system, you're right. But you need a SAFE suspension system. "You do you" is all well and good... until your cheap crap knockoff suspension system fails, and you crash into me, my loved ones, or anyone else... and suddenly lawmakers decide that it's illegal for ANYONE to modify their suspension. You do you... we'll just be hear, you know, dead from a collision... or in our stock cars because Johnny Law will hassle us if we modify our suspension (because lawmakers don't differentiate between Raceland and KW).
You don't need $3000 forged wheels. But you do need something that fits your car correctly, mounted correctly (ie. hub centric rings), with tires that fit correctly. If the wheels are blatant copies of wheels that are still being made by the original designer, you're sending a VERY clear message to that designer that you have no interest in their products. You're happy with copies of their products. That's great... until they decide to stop making products for your specific application. Then the copycats will stop, because they'll no longer have anything to copy... and you're left with nothing. 4x114.3 isn't exactly a popular bolt pattern. Especially in relatively high offset.

[cb9love]

These days around this site, I'm 90% sure I speak for 90% of the people here, WE DON'T GIVE A FUCK WHAT KINDA SHIT YOU BOLT ON YOUR SHOW ONLY CAR. IT'S WHEN IT COMES TO OUR SAFETY, WHEN YOUR CRUISING NEXT US ON THE FREEWAY, DON'T BE RUNNING ANY BULLSHIT PARTS.