F20 Blue top vs. H23 Blue top vs.H22a

[scudweiser]

I am trying to weigh the strengths and weaknesses of each motor in regards to it performing well in my cb7. some background info on my car is that it currently has a H22a engine and M2B4 trans, P13 ECU. The engines all but toast due to the previous owner. Im looking to swap either another H22a, a F20B blue top, or a H23VTEC. Anyone feel free to chime in on this.

H22A

* Bore × Stroke: 87.0 mm × 90.70 mm (3.43 in × 3.57 in)[1]
* Displacement: 2,157 cc (131.6 cu in)[2]
* Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves, VTEC[3]
* Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head [4]
* Compression ratio: 10.0-10.6:1 (North America)[5]; 10.0-11.0:1 (Europe); 10.6-11.0:1 (Japan)
* Max power: 185-220 hp
* Redline: 7200/7600 rpm
* Rev Cut: 7400/7800 rpm
* Engine Control System: Honda Systems PGM-FI with port fuel injection
* Valve Gear: Belt-driven dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, variable timing and lift [6]
* 92-96 versions use closed-deck blocks with FRM liners while the 97-01 versions used open-deck blocks with FRM liners.


Pros:

Lots were built and with the recent surge in K swaps, prices are relatively low. Decent aftermarket support, a well established swap in the cb7 chassis.

Cons:

To some, the frm cylinder liners are considered a weak link, most H22s develop oil consumption issues. Most H22s (those built from 1992 til 1998) use the "assembly" style lost motion assemblies rather than the "spring" style ones used in newer engines. These engines are getting old, the newest OBD1 H22 you can find will be pushing 16 years old soon.

H23a VTEC "Blue Top"

# Bore × Stroke: 87.0 mm × 95.0 mm (3.43 in × 3.74 in)
# Displacement: 2,258 cc (137.8 cu in)
# Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
# Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head
# Compression ratio: 9.8:1
# Power: 200hp 163TQ

Pros:

Torquey. Most replacement parts can be found on either a usdm H22 or H23.

Cons:
OBD2 only, kind of rare. FRM cylinder liners.


F20b DOHC "blue top"

# Bore × Stroke: 85.0 mm × 88.0 mm
# Displacement: 1,997 cc
# Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
# Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head
# Compression ratio: 11.0:1
# Power: 200hp 145TQ

Pros: High revving goodness, iron sleeves, agressive compression and cams. Most aftermarket H series parts will fit such as headers and intake manifolds. Generally the same cost or cheaper than an obd1 H22.

Cons: OBD2 only, will not run well on a P13 ECU so the PCB OB2 ecu or a chipped and tuned OBD1 ecu will need to be used for optimal performance. Replacement parts such as timing belts, head gaskets and water pumps will be a pain in the cock to find. Im not even clear on what plugs would be used.

[Flatline]

to be honest, its all your personal preference. the h22a is the most rounded, with the high rev limit and fair amounts of tq.

the H23 is the brute of them obviously because of the extra tq from the longer stroke. this also limits the speed the motor can turn safely. with some work done it would spin as fast if not faster than an H22. but with the same work into that H22......


the F20b is the graceful one. high revving, and very good top end for what it is. its the motor that honda made FOR production car races because the h22 had too much displacement.


it really falls down to, do you want to burn tires, tear up corners, or just drive and go with the flow?

Having an H22, i would like to try both out eventually. but i would go to an H23 first.

[gloryaccordy]

If u have a light CB I would go with the F20B

If u have a little time + extra $$$ I would do the 95mm H22. That way u get the H23 bottom end, high compression and the H22 cams + TB. H23 VTEC looks good but will need a little work to reach its full potential, and has a higher starting point. Another interesting experiment would be a 95mm stroke F20B... I don't know what will happen with compression on that though

[rezist09]

good info for my looking for a swap as well

[almostJDM]

with the f20b all the parts except the headgasket, valves, pistons, rods, crank can be used from an h22, glory, i think you would just loose its reving ability, and you would basically have to use the h22's rods, pistons and crank, also if you planned on boosting the f20 in the future just drop in some 12:1-13:1 compression forged f22a pistons and your set unless you wanna go huge power, since the rods and crank are forged, the 12:1 f22 pistons drop the compression to 7.5-8:1 i believe

[fatboy1185]

with the f20b all the parts except the headgasket, valves, pistons, rods, crank can be used from an h22

I think the headgasket is the same as the H22?

[scudweiser]

see i like everything about the f20b except for the fact that a p13 in theory shouldnt work well. the cars a daily driver and i just want a fun motor that will last, thats where the f20s bombproofness comes into mind. the h23vtec is just a beast though.

[scudweiser]

I think the headgasket is the same as the H22?

no, f20 has 2mm less bore, its been discussed somewhere that it wont work.

[DJ metadelic]

Great info, thanks for bringing this up Zach. The cheapest of the two H swaps...the H23. I think if I was to ever do a swap, it'd be that, but no F trans for me, I'd go ahead and swap both most likely.

Where's Kevin in on this though? I haven't heard him ramble about the F20 yet.

[bagoon316]

with the f20b all the parts except the headgasket, valves, pistons, rods, crank can be used from an h22, glory, i think you would just loose its reving ability, and you would basically have to use the h22's rods, pistons and crank, also if you planned on boosting the f20 in the future just drop in some 12:1-13:1 compression forged f22a pistons and your set unless you wanna go huge power, since the rods and crank are forged, the 12:1 f22 pistons drop the compression to 7.5-8:1 i believe

its the stock 8.8:1 pistons roughly -15cc will drop it to close to 8:1, because of the shorter stroke and the larger volume head. i know in my f20a dohc non vtak, if i throw in stocker f22 ill be at 8.2:1. yummy, high revving and boost. shawweeet.

also note, dunno if it was said, but the F20b is iron lined or whatever just like the other F's, whereas we all know that the H23 VTEC and the H22 are the FRM liners.

also i believe, cunningham has an F20b rod mold, since that prelude from preluderacing that is making 780whp on the F20b bottom H22 top end uses them. i cant remember though. also revving to 9k

[scudweiser]

the iron sleeves is one of the perks of the f20 in my mind. i'd like to be able to hone it if needed without going through the special process that the frm sleeves require.

[Warudakumi]

I am trying to weigh the strengths and weaknesses of each motor in regards to it performing well in my cb7. some background info on my car is that it currently has a H22a engine and M2B4 trans, P13 ECU. The engines all but toast due to the previous owner. Im looking to swap either another H22a, a F20B blue top, or a H23VTEC. Anyone feel free to chime in on this.

H22A

* Bore × Stroke: 87.0 mm × 90.70 mm (3.43 in × 3.57 in)[1]
* Displacement: 2,157 cc (131.6 cu in)[2]
* Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves, VTEC[3]
* Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head [4]
* Compression ratio: 10.0-10.6:1 (North America)[5]; 10.0-11.0:1 (Europe); 10.6-11.0:1 (Japan)
* Max power: 185-220 hp
* Redline: 7200/7600 rpm
* Rev Cut: 7400/7800 rpm
* Engine Control System: Honda Systems PGM-FI with port fuel injection
* Valve Gear: Belt-driven dual overhead cams, 4 valves per cylinder, variable timing and lift [6]
* 92-96 versions use closed-deck blocks with FRM liners while the 97-01 versions used open-deck blocks with FRM liners.


Pros:

Lots were built and with the recent surge in K swaps, prices are relatively low. Decent aftermarket support, a well established swap in the cb7 chassis.

Cons:

To some, the frm cylinder liners are considered a weak link, most H22s develop oil consumption issues. Most H22s (those built from 1992 til 1998) use the "assembly" style lost motion assemblies rather than the "spring" style ones used in newer engines. These engines are getting old, the newest OBD1 H22 you can find will be pushing 16 years old soon.

H23a VTEC "Blue Top"

# Bore × Stroke: 87.0 mm × 95.0 mm (3.43 in × 3.74 in)
# Displacement: 2,258 cc (137.8 cu in)
# Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
# Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head
# Compression ratio: 9.8:1
# Power: 200hp 163TQ

Pros:

Torquey. Most replacement parts can be found on either a usdm H22 or H23.

Cons:
OBD2 only, kind of rare. FRM cylinder liners.


F20b DOHC "blue top"

# Bore × Stroke: 85.0 mm × 88.0 mm
# Displacement: 1,997 cc
# Valve Configuration: DOHC, 16 valves
# Type: In-line 4 cylinder, aluminum block and head
# Compression ratio: 11.0:1
# Power: 200hp 145TQ

Pros: High revving goodness, iron sleeves, agressive compression and cams. Most aftermarket H series parts will fit such as headers and intake manifolds. Generally the same cost or cheaper than an obd1 H22.

Cons: OBD2 only, will not run well on a P13 ECU so the PCB OB2 ecu or a chipped and tuned OBD1 ecu will need to be used for optimal performance. Replacement parts such as timing belts, head gaskets and water pumps will be a pain in the cock to find. Im not even clear on what plugs would be used.

Another con of the H23Bluetop other than it being OBD2 is the transmission it generally comes with. This was a special motor featured for the Accord wagon and Torneo whch came only with a tiptronic transmission. Sometimes you will find longblocks on e-bay for $1100-$1300ish but you will also need to buy a regular auto or 5-speed tranny from another F or H to mate with it which will run you a extra 300-1000 depending on which transmission and type u go with. So expect to pay the same price as a regular H22a motor with a good LSD 1500-1800ish if you decide on this motor.

F20Bs are generally cheap too "without the nice LSD transmission" The Euro-R, Type-S and SiR-T transmissions are the most expensive because of the sportier gear ratios and factory LSD.

[almostJDM]

its the stock 8.8:1 pistons roughly -15cc will drop it to close to 8:1, because of the shorter stroke and the larger volume head. i know in my f20a dohc non vtak, if i throw in stocker f22 ill be at 8.2:1. yummy, high revving and boost. shawweeet.

also note, dunno if it was said, but the F20b is iron lined or whatever just like the other F's, whereas we all know that the H23 VTEC and the H22 are the FRM liners.

also i believe, cunningham has an F20b rod mold, since that prelude from preluderacing that is making 780whp on the F20b bottom H22 top end uses them. i cant remember though. also revving to 9k

Yup that's because it's got forge rods and crank and the sleeves are iron pretty thick too about 1/4" or slightly more perfect for boost just needs forged pistons

[gloryaccordy]

Another con of the H23Bluetop other than it being OBD2 is the transmission it generally comes with. This was a special motor featured for the Accord wagon and Torneo whch came only with a tiptronic transmission. Sometimes you will find longblocks on e-bay for $1100-$1300ish but you will also need to buy a regular auto or 5-speed tranny from another F or H to mate with it which will run you a extra 300-1000 depending on which transmission and type u go with. So expect to pay the same price as a regular H22a motor with a good LSD 1500-1800ish if you decide on this motor.

F20Bs are generally cheap too "without the nice LSD transmission" The Euro-R, Type-S and SiR-T transmissions are the most expensive because of the sportier gear ratios and factory LSD.

Getting the H tranny's no biggie if you go to a JDM spot, they usually have some stray ones for sale.

And even with the LSD tranny the F20B swap comes in around the same price as a non LSD H22. The motor alone is like $300 less (at least up here).

A con to both the F20B and H23A are that they're both OBD2. I don't know if you need to buy a step up harness or what but there's additional cost associated with that. The H22 is more straightforward.

[bagoon316]

Yup that's because it's got forge rods and crank and the sleeves are iron pretty thick too about 1/4" or slightly more perfect for boost just needs forged pistons

well i know of (2) 85mm molds, raceeng uses wiseco to make f22/f20 pistons, and cp has a mold also as jon (ghostcb7) is using 85mm cp's. then arias has 86mm also, but they are -21cc pistons, and good god on that low stroke and head, shit you prob be in mid 7's on the CR. ridonkulous.

someone correct me here, but wouldnt you be able to use forged pistons on the f20b stock rods since its obd2? ive heard that the f20b rods are pretty beefy stock, and like you said, forged.