Most misunderstood concepts in the tuner world?

[deevergote]

That is very true. General maintenance is a BIG one.

People ask how to install a turbo, but don't know how to do a compression test. People want to install coilovers, when every bushing on the car has rotted away. People want to install lips, rims, spoilers, "JDM" parts... with rust rotting away at their rear quarter panels.

[Makaveli2k]

I think some of it is just wilful ignorance. Anyone in their right frame of mind knows excessive negative camber goes against all fundamental functionality of wheels. However most do it because it offers aesthetic benefits (To each their own) which by far out weighs the cons, which are quite dangerous.

As for the most misunderstood concept. I vote for engine management but also with that any sort of engine upgrade for the sake of power, especially forced induction. The engine is a finely blanced piece of machinery and like another member said if you don't quite understand the basic principle of a 4 stroke engine or haven't paid for something that was designed by someone who understands the basic principles of a 4 stroke engine then you're pretty much playing a giant game of jenga wih your car.

[deevergote]

Man, I haven't see you around lately!

Jenga is a good way to put it. Misunderstand one piece, and the whole thing comes crashing.

[CyborgGT]

^ But half the time you get lucky. Them are good odds.

you can't really do one without replacing/upgrading the other.

To branch off this, 'bolt-ons' (or maybe 'engine mods' in general is more appropriate?) could be a concept in itself, in understanding that any given part of an engine (say for example the intake manifold, it's a popular enough swap on an F22A) isn't independent. For an engine to operate properly, other mods should be done to accommodate every part changed. Sticking a larger intake manifold on means your engine is going to be taking in more air... well, what's happening to all that extra air once it's inside when every other component of the engine (ECU included) is designed expecting the flow of that older, smaller manifold? An engine breathes in more, it should be flowing within, and exhaling out, at an equally higher rate to keep up.

But then, ideally, everyone should be getting a re-map even for just a cold air intake, and that day will never come.

[deevergote]

Well, the stock ECU will adjust for minor changes, which is why most basic bolt-on mods are usually doable without the need for an ECU tune (though a few extra horsepower could probably be pulled from the engine with a tune and a basic "ebay" I/H/E setup.)

But yeah, it's definitely something people don't seem to understand. I blame video games and magazine ads for the belief that "Part X will give exactly 7whp". That's just not how it works. To say a particular modification is going to give an exact gain, all other factors must be taken into consideration (the closest thing to exact that we can get is an F22A4 exhaust manifold swap on an F22A1 in similar condition... not accounting for power loss due to age and wear, the gain will be 5hp, based on Honda's ratings, and the fact that the engines are identical in every other aspect.)

I mean, if an intake gives you 3whp on a bone-stock engine, an exhaust gives 2whp on that same bone stock engine, the combination of the two may be 6whp rather than 5. Add a header, that may give 4whp alone, and the three mods together might give 12whp, rather than 9 or 10.

Or, looking at it from a pessimistic standpoint... an expensive header might yield 15whp on an otherwise stock F22A engine. An upgraded camshaft on an otherwise stock F22A may yield 7whp. However, when used together, due to the way the header was tuned, the upgraded camshaft, and the change in valve timing that it brings, may compromise the header's previously advantageous scavenging capabilities. Rather than the exhaust stream sucking on the exhaust valves, waiting to pull a nice healthy intake charge into the cylinders during overlap, there might be a great deal of turbulence at the collector instead. Rather than being useful, it ends up being a restriction. So a 15whp mod used in conjunction with a 7whp mod might end up producing 17whp in total, with an unexpected dip in power right in the middle of the powerband.

[Chrisnick]

Suspension geometry is going to be huge for the new generation of kids who have no idea that the crap they are doing to their cars is dangerous lol

This plus tires. The "round and black" crap people stick on their cars makes my head hurt, and their blatant ignorance of geometry takes it to another level.

Secondly, I'd have to say engines and drivetrains. Very poor, convoluted, and just wrong information has been spread so quickly across the interweb tubes that it's making everyone dumber. I miss the days of the absolutely excellent tech available in magazines like Car Craft, Hot Rod, and many books. Some books are just filled with trash information though, and makes me wonder how it even got through to the bookshelf.

Thirdly, gearing vs power. See comments above to get how I feel about that.

[sonikaccord]

Yes, because our Honda's make no torque...

[CyborgGT]

Chrisnick, do you read DSPORT? Even their project car features are more than just "we put this part on and this happened." They go into the science of things pretty well, I think, which is the biggest gripe I have against Kojima's Honda book. Especially this year, they've been going deep into every aspect of car modification, running special "Tech 101" and "201" articles. Initially they generalized ("101") a whole list of different areas of the car, then with each successive issue they've gone deeper ("201") into each one; supension, chassis bracing, engine, etc. They took a break for a couple months, but are back in it this issue talking about the fuel system.

[Chrisnick]

Chrisnick, do you read DSPORT? Even their project car features are more than just "we put this part on and this happened." They go into the science of things pretty well, I think, which is the biggest gripe I have against Kojima's Honda book. Especially this year, they've been going deep into every aspect of car modification, running special "Tech 101" and "201" articles. Initially they generalized ("101") a whole list of different areas of the car, then with each successive issue they've gone deeper ("201") into each one; supension, chassis bracing, engine, etc. They took a break for a couple months, but are back in it this issue talking about the fuel system.

I have in the past, but they tend to jump to many generalizations that I don't really agree with. They inherited a lot of writers and editors from other magazines that weren't so great, IMO, and I tend not to follow. Granted, they're good for the beginner, and HAVE had great articles, but there are better overall, and I will cite and research those instead. Still hard to beat the great writing and tech published in paperback form. "Import" people tend to only believe other "Import" people(as do the other groups within the enthusiast world), which to me, is quite narrow minded and loses out on a great deal of excellent information from all parts of the automotive/engineering spectrum. There's too much to learn to restrict yourself to just one field.

[CyborgGT]

"Import" people tend to only believe other "Import" people(as do the other groups within the enthusiast world), which to me, is quite narrow minded and loses out on a great deal of excellent information from all parts of the automotive/engineering spectrum. There's too much to learn to restrict yourself to just one field.

Which, of course, makes good information that much harder to find. The muscle car guys are typically very much against imports, so they're not so eager to adopt import enthusiasts' philosophies, and vice versa. So well-rounded build tech is few and far between, it seems.

[deevergote]

I think the import/muscle guys aren't quite as divided as they once were. The old guys that grew up with muscle cars, maybe... and they'll likely never come around. But today's younger enthusiasts, the guys that were building cars in the past two decades or so... those guys generally seem to have an appreciation for the smaller Japanese cars, as well as the monstrous American V8 powered cars. It doesn't hurt that Japan is producing a wide range of impressive engines, from awesome boosted straight sixes, to absurd little turbo 4 cylinders, to high-revving V8s... and that the Americans have figured out how to make cars like the Mustang actually handle well. It's no longer a matter of "do you want a car with power, or a car with handling?"
Honestly, it seems there's a far greater divide between the American/Asian owners and the European (primarily German) owners.

I both love and hate the current new car market when it comes to performance. Cars are making so much power, and come with so much capability right off the showroom floor, it's gotten to the point where it's practically unnecessary to modify them. And it's been going on for a while. There are a number of decade-old cars that are making 300-400hp that can be purchased for under $10,000. It's gotten to the point where the average car enthusiast doesn't have to think. They don't have to learn. They don't have to know. They just need to buy a fast car.
My decade-old CTS-V makes more power than I can really use on the street. Every now and then, I look around for things I can do to squeeze out a little more power (that I won't be able to actually use... because speed limits...) It's difficult to find much solid information, even with such a well-supported engine. Sure, there are TONS of parts available for the LSx, and many that are LS2 specific... but which are good and which are crap tends to be a mystery.
I know I could look to high-end stuff and find lots of people that know what they're talking about... just as any Honda enthusiast could do the same on Honda-Tech (the truly knowledgeable people are always lurking, and if you dig deep, you can find their quality information.) Still, the average driveway mechanic, spending the lunch money he's saved for the past 8 months... that guy gets bombarded with misinformation left and right, because people at that level just don't learn. They pick something to believe, and they believe it... blindly... without understanding any of the concepts behind it.

[CyborgGT]

Oh yeah, you can see at least a little import influence in the recent Pro Touring scene. I'm loving the hell out of this new genre of muscle car modification, but it's expensive as all hell. I've seen the old muscle car guys have grown a certain amount of respect for imports, between the faster street cars that are coming out and the impressive things that have come out of the drag racing scene, but I also still hear so many put-downs from domestic guys young and old. We're still "ricers." I do envy the open-mindedness of the rest of the world.

Speaking of new cars and unusable power... I have so completely fallen for the new Miata. Bucking all trends, it's so no-nonsense. Still the essence of sports car purity, but better looking than ever. And the weight loss over the NC! Kinda thinking about trading in the RSX for a second-hand ND once I finally get my engine on the road. Something RWD is definitely in the cards at that point, and this may just be it.

[deevergote]

I'm all about all things Miata right now! I'm dying to get an NA, though they are REALLY holding their value. Even a rough one costs $2500, if you're lucky! I'm hoping to dump my Fit once I'm done using it for work (I ALMOST got out... getting sucked back into it, I think... grrr...) I don't expect it's worth much more than $2500, though... if that.
The NB Miata is the redheaded stepchild. Nobody likes it. Even the turbo Mazdaspeed version has essentially gone unloved, aside from a few enthusiasts. The NB is the least "Miata" of the bunch, and Mazda THANKFULLY learned from their mistake. It's the R33 of the Miata world Still not a bad car. Not really even a bad Miata... but it doesn't do what the original did.
The NC is beautiful. If it was in the budget, I'd love one. I don't care if it has a stupid grin on its face. I wouldn't even mind the power hardtop model, even though it's atrociously heavy, and notoriously problematic (not a word usually associated with Miatas.)
I haven't seen an ND in person... unless I sat in it at the auto show last February (I was in a hurry... whatever I sat in, I liked.) I do love that Mazda sought to get back to the Miata's roots with the ND. It's very close to the NA's curb weight, despite all the necessary modern gizmos (both required by law, and by the market...) It's actually shorter than the NA! I hate how tall it looks, but that's federal pedestrian safety requirements. Mazda did a fine job of making an attractive car despite that! I also like that it remains "underpowered".



Back to car-snobbery... American automakers generally have a worldwide reputation for making large, obnoxious monstrosities that lack refinement or subtlety (and in many cases, they're right.) Europeans love the Corvette, but they see the Corvette (at least up through the C6) the way we see 60s muscle cars. Brutish and crass. I think the only nationality that really sees cars the way we do is Australia (and I assume New Zealand, as their markets are essentially shared.) But that's largely due to the fact that GM and Ford are two of their largest automakers!

Asian import drivers still have the "ricer" image to some extent... though much of it is due to (and hopefully mostly restricted to) the idiot trend-followers, or the kids that bounce down the road on cut springs and blown shocks. Basically, the real "ricers" are no different than the tobacky-chewin', overall-wearin', sister-humpin', Joe-Dirt-wannabe-Superbee-drivin' rednecks (offensively stereotypical language intentional, in order to paint a picture of the absolute ridiculous domestic-muscle equivalent to your traditional "ricer".)

[F22Chris]

Deev you are spot on with the Australian comment as they have Holden. The Utes are awesome. Basically minitruck G8's. I'd buy one if they sold them here.

[deevergote]

evil_demon_01 actually has one.