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Old 06-07-2017, 10:28 AM   #1
417HondaNoob
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F22a Rebuild questions.

I brought a 2nd 90 accord for a project. It came with two extra f22a1 engines.
I want to rebuild one of them and prep it for boost later down the road.
Im going to tear one down and send to my machine shop for a clean and check.
The problem is i don't know where to begin for a rebuild kit. I work at O'Reillys so i can get parts for cheap. But i can't get a kit for the f22. I put together a list of parts that will make a rebuild kit but it comes to @ $450(without piston heads). I've been told the rod bearings are color coded, would i have to get from Honda?
I don't know what kits to trust on the internet.
Should i replace the internals with forged pistons and rods?
Anything I should have the machine shop do?
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Old 06-07-2017, 10:58 AM   #2
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Avoid "kits" at all costs. A kit is nothing more than a collection of parts put together by someone looking to profit for doing the legwork. Often, kits include inferior parts to keep costs down. Buy your parts separately. I assume since you're planning to do the rebuild yourself that you have enough of an understanding of what parts are needed to complete it.

If you intend on boosting, you should absolutely install forged pistons. Forged rods are not totally necessary for a modest build, but since the factory style rods aren't compatible with aftermarket forged pistons (without significant modification, anyway), you might as well buy the forged rods as well. Stock internals, even brand new OEM stock internals, won't hold up to boost for very long.
Any parts that aren't being upgraded should be OEM whenever possible. In most cases, you're not going to find a better factory replacement part than the one you get from the Honda parts counter. www.hondaautomotiveparts.com is a good place to research, and often a good place to buy. For parts that don't necessarily require top quality (ie. those that won't cause expensive damage if they fail), www.rockauto.com is a great resource. I wouldn't suggest ever buying the absolute cheapest stuff they have to offer, but much of the mid-range stuff is acceptable for the times you can safely cut corners.

www.raceeng.com is a good place to get affordable upgraded internals.

Take the engine to the machine shop before you buy anything. A .5mm overbore MIGHT be necessary (or maybe not). You'll want to know the exact cylinder bore size after the shop has done what is necessary to make all 4 cylinders uniform and round. Once you know that, you can order your pistons in the appropriate size.
Have the shop go over your crank journals to be certain they're in good condition (or to bring them back to good condition). Honda's bearings are color coded according to thickness. You will need the appropriate thickness for your specific engine. The machine shop should be able to provide you with the information you need to select the appropriate bearings. OEM Honda bearings are probably fine. There are upgraded options available as well (probably some on the Race Engineering site, though I haven't looked.)
Have the shop check the head mating surface to ensure it's straight. If it's not, have them shave off as little as possible to make it so. You don't want to remove too much material from the head, for a number of reasons (the biggest one being that if you somehow damage the head in the future and it can't be milled any further, it's then trash.)


Also, keep in mind that even with forged internals, the stock open-deck block will only be good for about 400hp. Beyond that, you're definitely going to want to sleeve the block (Darton sleeves are the standard.) It's not a cheap process, but it's the only way to ensure the engine will be able to take more power than that. The good news is that anything more than the stock block can handle is also pretty difficult to actually use on public roads. If you're not building a drag car, you should be fine within the stock block's limits. Beyond 350-400whp, traction becomes an issue on a lightweight FWD car like the CB7. You're also guaranteed to exceed all legal speed limits in the blink of an eye, so it's only fun for so long before you have to let off the throttle.
I currently have a CTS-V with a bit more than 400hp. It weighs about 1,000lbs more than a CB7, and it puts power down through beefy tires on the rear wheels. Despite being designed from the factory for such power, being a significantly heavier car, and putting power to the rear (where the weight of the car shifts upon launch...) I still find it very difficult to fully utilize that 400hp for more than a couple seconds. Add in the lighter weight (less power needed to move the car), FWD layout (the car shifts its weight OFF the drive wheels at launch), and the monstrous power delivery of turbo... a CB7 with the same 400hp would be almost too much to handle, IMO.
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Old 06-08-2017, 12:08 AM   #3
417HondaNoob
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Thank you so much! You've pretty much answered all of my questions as of now. The other Honda guy that i work with isn't much help. He just tells me to slap a turbo and drive it until it blows up. The shop that we deliver to that works mostly on Hondas just don't do anything performance wise. They see cars as just transportation. Most honda people in my area are shade tree slap a turbo and call it good. Then everyone else knows nothing about Hondas.
I do have one more question. I do plan to replace the camshaft with a A6 cam. But ive seen people use bisimoto cams for turbo. Would the A6 cam be alright?
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Old 06-08-2017, 01:56 PM   #4
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Sadly, there are MANY people that are all about halfassing a build for the easiest and cheapest result.

A stock camshaft is fine for a turbo application.

I'd avoid getting ANYTHING from Bisimoto, as he/they have pretty much proven to be unreliable. So much that Bisimoto is no longer welcome on this forum. One of our members in Europe ordered a Stage 2 camshaft from them, only to receive a bone-stock A6 camshaft. It cost him about $1,000 after shipping and such, and Bisimoto dodged every attempt to communicate. (that's just one of many horror stories, but I feel it's relevant since it has to do with a camshaft!)


Also, regarding the engine's internals... we have one member here that has suggested that widening the piston ring gap will make the stock pistons suitable for a low-boost turbo setup. I'm skeptical, but he's one of our more knowledgeable and trustworthy members, so I can't dismiss the idea completely. It hasn't been done yet, to my knowledge, but it IS a potential option if you're willing to take the risk. I'd still go forged to be safe, myself... but I figured I'd mention it.
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Old 06-20-2017, 02:58 AM   #5
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Just wanna make an update post.

So far i've pulled off both rocker arms and camshafts.

Is was able to get one head off. The other head is still on because i made the mistake of using a 12 point socket and it rounded the head bolt. Ive tried almost everything but welding an old bolt. Im in the process of drilling it. I don't want to weld a old nut because im afraid I might melt aluminum head.

I sent the head i was able to pull of to the machine shop to get it clean, checked, resurfaced, and pressure checked. I should get it back sometime this week.

The cylinder walls look fine. There was black flakes on top of the piston heads. (from burning oil?)

What's next is to get a stand and hoist so i can take out the pistons, rods, and crankshaft.
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Old 06-20-2017, 03:07 AM   #6
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Old 06-20-2017, 06:57 PM   #7
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Instagram pictures don't work with our old software, unfortunately. Anything that doesn't have a proper image extension (.jpg, .gif, .bmp, etc...) won't show up.

It's probably too late now if you didn't, but I'm hoping that you removed the head bolts in the proper sequence...

Cylinders should still be honed at the very least, even if they look fine. If there are even minor imperfections, they could end up damaging your new pistons and rings, and causing premature failure. Then you'll be doing this all over again! If you're certain they don't need machine shop attention (they COULD be out of round... so it wouldn't hurt to have the block checked) then you should at the very least get a honing tool.
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Old 06-20-2017, 07:54 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
I'd avoid getting ANYTHING from Bisimoto, as he/they have pretty much proven to be unreliable. So much that Bisimoto is no longer welcome on this forum. One of our members in Europe ordered a Stage 2 camshaft from them, only to receive a bone-stock A6 camshaft. It cost him about $1,000 after shipping and such, and Bisimoto dodged every attempt to communicate. (that's just one of many horror stories, but I feel it's relevant since it has to do with a camshaft!)
Good to know! In the past Bisimoto was recommended on this forum, but I've heard some bad stuff about them recently. Didn't you even mention getting the Bisimoto forged piston/rod combination on my thread like a month or so ago? Has your stance on Bisimoto changed since then?

Sorry
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Old 06-20-2017, 09:06 PM   #9
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I've been wise to Bisimoto's shenanigans for years now. I (and this forum) were officially done with Bisimoto as of February 26, 2015. If I recommended them, I must have mistyped! Bisimoto just resells Arias pistons. Rods are possibly no-name, as far as I know.
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Old 06-20-2017, 10:25 PM   #10
417HondaNoob
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That was on piston.

The head before it was shipped off.
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Old 06-21-2017, 12:20 AM   #11
417HondaNoob
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deevergote View Post
Instagram pictures don't work with our old software, unfortunately. Anything that doesn't have a proper image extension (.jpg, .gif, .bmp, etc...) won't show up.

It's probably too late now if you didn't, but I'm hoping that you removed the head bolts in the proper sequence...

Cylinders should still be honed at the very least, even if they look fine. If there are even minor imperfections, they could end up damaging your new pistons and rings, and causing premature failure. Then you'll be doing this all over again! If you're certain they don't need machine shop attention (they COULD be out of round... so it wouldn't hurt to have the block checked) then you should at the very least get a honing tool.
Yeah i removed the bolts in reverse of installation. I'm going to get the block checked out for the most part and ask them if it needs to be honed. Does honing remove material?
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Old 06-21-2017, 04:19 PM   #12
417HondaNoob
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I'm probably going to wait on the turbo build and just get a good set of piston heads and connecting rods.

Should i keep the ones i have and just have them clean and checked or should i get some new ones from rockauto?

I'm at the point now where my daily driver is kind of dying. I just want to get this back together and running. But i still want to rebuild it.

Another thing. The clutch doesn't engage intill i let my foot off. Would that be the clutch and pressure plate? Because the guy i bought it from said the synchros are bad in the transmission. I would rather put a new clutch and everything in. But if i have to i can pull a junkyard tranny from a salvage yard.
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